Osama Bin Laden Dead

[MedicTJ]

Ah, almost forgot.

Until I'm shown proof....I'm not going to believe anything about that operation.

If my government says, "We killed him....and you're just going to have to trust us on that".........that's NOT good enough.

I want proof....and I would be willing to bet that over 75% of the American public feels the same way.

[The Silver Thong]

I knew this was going to happen. I absolutely knew it.

What I didn't expect is how absolutely clueless the Obama administration could actually be in taking advice on how to handle this short-term and the potential consequences long-term.

The description of all of this is so cookie-cutter it's laughable.

Obama's advisors told him, "No matter how this plays out....regardless of photos or video....the conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day."

But the DUMBEST thing they could have reported to the press is that Bin Laden was unarmed.

If he was unarmed, then why in hell would ANY group pass up the opportunity to get info straight from the source itself??????

If he's not dead.....he's in U.S. custody and under intense interrogation. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

And I'm actually okay with that. If they got the guy.....PLEASE tell me he's alive because that's the best source of information to thwart not only any upcoming attacks....but techniques as well. Believe me, there is more you can learn from a human brain than you can learn from a bunch of hard drives.

My main problem is that this insults the intelligence of every human being on the planet.

Maybe Obama's ploy is that he needs to be as stupid as possible in hopes that it will elicit the age-old, "He can't be this stupid" response.

History has shown that governments who hold things of this nature from the public tend to face ultimate upheaval. People get fed up quickly.

Especially in today's day and age.

This entire post beats around the bush. What do you think. truth, plausable or fact?

Edit: or flat out deception?

Edited May 5, 2011 by The Silver Thong

[acidhead]

Perfect? Not by a long shot least an execution type shot from the back of the head

no body - no evidence = conspiracy(engineered of course)

[acidhead]

Doesn't Bob Marley sing a song titled, "No body no crime"?... hahha

[The Silver Thong]

no body - no evidence = conspiracy(engineered of course)

Bingo, when the facts are presented yet kept secret it must be the truth.

[MedicTJ]

This entire post beats around the bush. What do you think. truth, plausable or fact?

Edit: or flat out deception?

I cannot say whether it's truth or lie.

What I CAN say is that proof HAS been withheld purposefully.

[The Silver Thong]

Bingo, when the facts are presented yet kept secret it must be the truth.

There can be no secrets if one wants the truth. Meaning lies abound hiding the truth. I posted this due to some not catching what I meant. Maybe I'm CIA and just messing with you all and not asking you all to look at a bigger picture the your local news station as far as the updates Obama is dead.

edit: no Obama is not dead.

Edited May 5, 2011 by The Silver Thong

[The Silver Thong]

I cannot say whether it's truth or lie.

What I CAN say is that proof HAS been withheld purposefully.

Yes it has

[BlindMessiah]

There can be no secrets if one wants the truth. Meaning lies abound hiding the truth. I posted this due to some not catching what I meant. Maybe I'm CIA and just messing with you all and not asking you all to look at a bigger picture the your local news station as far as the updates Obama is dead.

Would've expected more press on this.

Edited May 5, 2011 by BlindMessiah

[acidhead]

Would've expected more press on this.

hahhaa.. you hopped like a bunny on that one!... ahhaaha

Pretty sure he meant to say Osama

[BlindMessiah]

hahhaa.. you hopped like a bunny on that one!... ahhaaha

Pretty sure he meant to say Osama

Opportunities like that only come up so often. I couldn't pass it up.

[The Silver Thong]

Would've expected more press on this.

So you missed my comedy ok and ya I pulled a gaff

Ok At least I don't work for fox LOL

Edited May 5, 2011 by The Silver Thong

[BlindMessiah]

edit: no Obama is not dead.

Great, more conspiracy theories. I suppose you won't believe it unless Biden releases the photos. Gonna be awkward if he gets a Muslim burial... in Kenya.

[MedicTJ]

Asking one of my friends who worked in military intelligence about this entire thing and why there seems to be a lot of misinformation going around.....he had one thing to say:

"If there were no secrets, there would be no wars.....it would not only be the ultimate deterrent, but the ultimate detriment."

[The Silver Thong]

Great, more conspiracy theories. I suppose you won't believe it unless Biden releases the photos. Gonna be awkward if he gets a Muslim burial... in Kenya.

Don't you start because I'm sure I could kick a blind mans ass even if he is a Messiah

[BlindMessiah]

So you missed my comedy ok and ya I pulled a gaff

Ok At least I don't work for fox LOL

You clearly do work for Fox News. You're fair and balanced. Like them, you don't discriminate between truth and fiction. Although given that gaff and Biden are synonymous terms, perhaps you're actually good ol Joe himself and this whole Canadian thing is a charade. So why won't you release the photos Joe. Lol, from now on I'm calling you Joe.

[BlindMessiah]

Don't you start because I'm sure I could kick a blind mans ass even if he is a Messiah

You can take on a blind man? Bad ass. Why aren't you on Navy Seals Team Six?

I can't help but notice you said a Messiah and not the. Oh well, at least you capitalized the M.

[The Silver Thong]

You clearly do work for Fox News. You're fair and balanced. Like them, you don't discriminate between truth and fiction. Although given that gaff and Biden are synonymous terms, perhaps you're actually good ol Joe himself and this whole Canadian thing is a charade. So why won't you release the photos Joe. Lol, from now on I'm calling you Joe.

Look into my eye's and listen closely............ Canada does nor exist and your over lords have said nothing about our oil. You will remain in the middle east collecting blood oil but Canada does not exist. When I snap my fingers you will come to the reality

PS Fox news has made me post in this thread and it will self destruct in ?

[BlindMessiah]

Look into my eye's and listen closely............ Canada does nor exist and your over lords have said nothing about our oil. You will remain in the middle east collecting blood oil but Canada does not exist. When I snap my fingers you will come to the reality

PS Fox news has made me post in this thread and it will self destruct in ?

I think our trade agreements are safe as long as General Electric doesn't figure out a way to create energy out of maple syrup or the word aboot.

[The Silver Thong]

You can take on a blind man? Bad ass. Why aren't you on Navy Seals Team Six?

I can't help but notice you said a Messiah and not the. Oh well, at least you capitalized the M.

Capital M respect for you, team six I am not allowed to know about but I give them a blind respect of 6. If I was 24 I ight have made it to team four and then only the local media would know and some politicians in my riding.

[+Link of Hyrule]

(1) Well, the most important thing would be to maintain the moral high ground. Governments always use "We will not give in to terrorists" as their motto, after all, and this would be your chance to show that you were morally different to your enemies.

... Unless the fear was that there wouldn't be any reprisals, in which case what would that say about the terrorist menace, or the importance of Bin L ... ?

I totally agree. IF bin Laden was captured, then the "we will not give in to terrorists" should be the appropriate action. But as a government, they could have decided he was guilty beyond doubt and stopped any chance of terrorist demands by simply doing away with it. Sure, it's not the most moral course in the world. But it makes sense in the context of saving innocent civilians.

2(a & b ): even if it was imperative to dispose of him within 24 hours, it must surely have been possible to have had his identity verified at least by independent sources in that time, even if full DNA testing wasn't possible - testimony from survivors in the house, for a start - and to have it verified by independent news sources. Not make it look as if he was just bumped off like it was a routine Mafia hit. This at least must have been possible within 24 hours, and in any case, seeing that the U.S. has been at war with the Islamic world for 10 years in any case, it seems a bit late, not to say hypocritical, to be suddenly so concerned with not infringing one particular part of the law.

Samples were sent to labs for independent testing (according to standard procedure, from what I can tell). But they don't have the body itself, so even if the tests come back positive, I'm sure the "how do we know they came from this body at this particular time" will begin to play out. As to respecting Islam law, it is also fair to say that killing Osama bin Laden is a unique event. Of all the scenarios that this War on Terror has brought, the killing of the figurehead of terrorism had more chance of retribution than any other act in the past ten years. In order to offset that, the logical action is to then limit the opportunities for retaliation, and they did this by acceding to Islamic beliefs on the burial (albeit, at sea).

You see, 747. For every conspiracy theory that condemns the government, an alternative exists that shows that this is the most logical course of action. It depends on whether you want to automatically assume that the government is lying to you, or whether they have the interests of the people in mind.

What about my, increasingly it's looking like, rhetorical question? If the same level of evidence had been presented by Mr. Obama's predecessor, would you still be so confident? After i've asked that, I promise I will go away and not bother anyone for a bit. Mr. Obama's predecessor, please don't forget, assured everyone that he had proof of the existence of weapons of bad that were possessed by Mr. Saddam Hussein. He told us that he had proof, just as, so far, mr. Obama has told us that he has proof of the existence of Mr. bin Laden. That is all i am asking. I am merely trying to hold everyone to the same standard.

I'm not American, but if Bush had said the same thing, I'd probably be in the same position as now. Bush, Obama - they're both the same to me. I don't really care for the whole democrat/republican debate - I couldn't even tell you which is which, or even which Donald Trump is (and at least I've seen him on tv on The Apprentice ) Edited May 5, 2011 by Paranoid Android

[psyche101]

I don't believe that attacking due to them having links to terrorism is the way to go. If this were the case then I guess you feel that Turkey would be justified in attacking the US for funding the ç† and it's sister group (one of the reasons ties between Iran and Turkey - where both groups operate - have become so close)? Or that the US should have invaded itself due to ties with, wait for it, Al'Qaeda?

I do not agree, these animals know no other way than violence. Laying down weapons will just make one an easy target.

The PKK's goal has been to create an independent, Kurdish state, the Talibans, well, Sharias (as per Taliban version) role is to remove human rights. It would be silly for the US to invade itself for supplying weapons when they supplied about 9% as opposed to the USSR's 75%. And those two have indeed expressed their differences in the past, should they do so today the argument would last what - half an hour? And as far as I know the PKK has not flown any planes into buildings, but Al Qaeda, which is heavily affiliated with the Taliban has. It is not like Al Qeada sold a few weapons, they trained together, mingled and shared goals and ideals. I feel the parallel you are drawing is an extremely loose one, heck, half the world has at some time in this way supported the PKK. Also, the PKK is now listed as a terrorist organisation with the US. Al Qaeada and the Taliban offer each other continuing support for their twisted goals. Now the PKK and the US are at extreme odds, with the PKK admitting just last year to having killed American Soldiers.

It is a lot more complex a situation than you make out.

I do not feel the US ties with Al Qeada ever amounted to the type of corroboration between Al Qeada and the Taliban. Unless you know of some joint US/Taliban terrorist training grounds?

Has the US joined Al Qaeda in it's well publicised Jihad? Has the Taliban? Come on, you seem too intelligent to try an make out that the US and Al Qaeda are on equal fotting with the Taliban. No terrorist group reserves the right for clemency.

I do not enjoy seeing suffering inflicted on a native population by their own rulers though. But still, if we were to invade every country guilty of this then we would currently be in a World War right now (even by tageting one country - Chna). Besides, the US has supported many such regimes guilty of far worse than the Taleban (and indeed has been guilty of far, FAR worse itself); meaning protection of the civilians had nothing to do with the invasion. It still is of little interest to either the British or the Americans.

So because many other countries have done things that are regrettable, we should turn a blind eye to terrorist organisations in the interestes of "fair play"? Yes the US has supported unscrupulous organisations, and I have little doubt that a bigger picture was involved in some situations, and that some were plain mistakes. We learn from this and move on, What we learned from 911 id that terrorism is a real time threat that must be dealt with. It is a global problem, so a global answer is required, yet with that toothless tiger the UN sitting on it's hands, nothing gets done, so a war is going to happen from time to time. People can only suffer so much, and 911 was the catalyst that set this terrorism clean-out in motion. Hussein was the first to go, Bin Laden next. Leaders are being targeted, and the US is killing the beast by removing the head.

See, it's sort of like Lybia: I would have liked to have seen Gaddafi dead and gone, but it is basically none of our business.

I do not think so. I think if entire towns are being punished by a tyrant, then some of our fellow people in real need require some assistance. It is human nature to "lend a hand" be it natural disaster or man made. Maybe it is just Aussies and Americans, but I am troubled that anyone would sit by watching others suffer and say "not my problem".

Change must come from within (just look at the nick of Iraq). It cannot be forced, and definitely not by a group with clear ulterior motives.

And you think leading by example is the way to go?

Again I disagree, look at what happened when civilisation came to the middle east. The Shah of Iran did his level best to bring the country out of the dark ages, but was ousted in a disgusting fashion. This shows us that no matter what happens in that part of the world, as long as the religious fundamentalist exist, terrorism will too, and terrorists will always try to reduce our standard of living. I think that waiting around for 40 years and watching things go backwards is good enough reason to try something else. Sitting on our hands has got us where we sit today, and the current situation would be worse if the animals that masterminded 9-11 were free today.

If you can come up with a way to remove Taliban Shariah, then I am all ears.

[psyche101]

I keep seeing this said on the thread, though it is not so cut and dry as some believe.

The complication is that bin Laden twice denied responsibility for involvement in the 9/11 attack. The purpose of a terrorist attack (as opposed to war) is to make a political statement. It does not make much sense for a group to plan and carry out a terrorist attack and then distance themselves from responisbility - it defeats the point.

The suggestion follows that bin Laden was telling the truth below: -

"Following the latest explosions in the United States, some Americans are pointing the finger at me, but I deny that because I have not done it. The United States has always accused me of these incidents which have been caused by its enemies. Reiterating once again, I say that I have not done it, and the perpetrators have carried this out because of their own interest.

…

The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive."

Sep. 16th, 2001

And then: -

“I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act.”

Sep. 28th, 2001

Additionally the U.S. failed to present evidence of bin Laden's involvement in the attack when the Taliban offered to hand him over for trial on this basis.

And then in 2006 an FBI spokesman stated: -

"In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, Bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11."

Further, there is reason to doubt authenticity of the 2004 bin Laden 'confession' videotape which did not come until over three years after the attack... judging by the above statement, the FBI certainly doubted it for some reason.

What we can say for sure is there has never been a legal case made or trial held as to bin Laden's responsibility for the attack. In the civilised world this is the normal procedure - innocent until proven guilty in a court of law - except apparently in this case. What we actually have, is more akin to a witch-hunt.

Did bin Laden really help mastermind this attack or was he in fact the scapegoat, held in confinement in Pakistan to fuel the 'War on Terror'?

IS this Bin Laden or not? He does not seem to have a gun to his head.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/world-15749633/osama-bin-laden-mastermind-of-9-11-attacks-25084752

The mans words from his own mouth, surely no-one is going to say the US forced him to do this? He made a threat 3 weeks before the attack that he was going to hurt America, was that merely co-incidence?

[Space Commander Travis]

You forgot the London and Spain subway bombings (And there are probably a few others - that was one that came to mind almost immediately).

I know I said I wasn't going to argue about this indefinitely, and there's been another 9 pages since, which I really don't know if I have the stamina to work through, but I saw this in the new today (oh boy)...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-10-myths-cia-arsenal

Top ten Myths about O b L

According to number 9,

9. He hid in Kashmir, was the leader of Chechen groups, was responsible for violence in the Philippines and in Indonesia, organised the Madrid 2004 attack and had an extensive network in Paraguay, sub-Saharan Africa and South Africa.

All these claims, made by various governments or intelligence services over the last decade have proved totally without foundation.

[acidhead]

I know I said I wasn't going to argue about this indefinitely, and there's been another 9 pages since, which I really don't know if I have the stamina to work through, but I saw this in the new today (oh boy)...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-10-myths-cia-arsenal

Top ten Myths about O b L

According to number 9,

9. He hid in Kashmir, was the leader of Chechen groups, was responsible for violence in the Philippines and in Indonesia, organised the Madrid 2004 attack and had an extensive network in Paraguay, sub-Saharan Africa and South Africa.

All these claims, made by various governments or intelligence services over the last decade have proved totally without foundation.

russian