alis Posted August 23, 2004 #26 Share Posted August 23, 2004 its ok michelle, i remember it being on the news at the begining of the war, thats why i assumed most people knew about it, i should have posted a link to begin with. about the quote thingy when you want to quote something, select the text you want to quote, press the quote button, paste the text after, then enclose it by pressing the quote button again. dont worry, i still dont know how to post a picture yet or what the IMG button is for. alis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted August 23, 2004 #27 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Friendly fire accidents happen in every war. That's part of what I mean when I say each government feeds their people the news they want you to hear. Good Lord, no wonder people hate Americans. The news in Ireland a few weeks ago was the same way. They had four channels on TV and three of them were news. All slander about US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alis Posted August 23, 2004 #28 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Friendly fire accidents happen in every war. That's part of what I mean when I say each government feeds their people the news they want you to hear. i dont think the brits wanted to hear that 18 out of 20 brit soldiers where killed by their own side. it doesnt really fill us with confidence to hear that the US soldiers cant distinguish a brit tank with that of an iraqi etc. but heck, maybe there are a few who get a buzz out of hearing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted August 23, 2004 #29 Share Posted August 23, 2004 so as long as you hit the right country, killing innocent people doesnt bother you. im not going to insult you, you've probably heard it all before. watch out Iran, stellar's about! Who said killing innocent people doesnt bother me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted August 23, 2004 #30 Share Posted August 23, 2004 I didn't say you wanted to here it alis, I said that's what you're media is telling you. I'm sorry, but so many people not of the US say that we're being braiwashed by our media and our government. Can you tell me that no brit has ever hit an American in friendly fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted August 23, 2004 #31 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Oh and alis thanks for that info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alis Posted August 23, 2004 #32 Share Posted August 23, 2004 no i cant michelle but some of our soldiers have called you're soldiers trigger happy, and from some of the horrific footage ive seen, and a few of the members on here i can well believe that. i will never agree on the reasons for going to war, so please, you are wasting your time if you are trying to tell me the british media is lying to me and the US is telling you the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted August 23, 2004 #33 Share Posted August 23, 2004 I didn't say the US was telling us the truth. Do you assume your media is always telling you the truth? I bet not. But what you have to do is research. That's one of the reasons I'm here. For more opinions than just what our biased news feeds us. I try not to take anything at face value. It's just like Aljazeera, (sp?) do you think they're being honest in what they report? But for most arabs that's about the only news they get. I'm not trying to tell you your british media is lying to you but anyone's a fool who DOESN'T think they're being lied to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted August 23, 2004 #34 Share Posted August 23, 2004 I pm'd alis and apoligized. I wasn't calling HER a fool and I just wanted to clarify that to anyone else I may have offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alis Posted August 23, 2004 #35 Share Posted August 23, 2004 your right i dont believe everything the media write. i dont believe i have come across a truly unbiased source yet. biassses can be subtle and i am not a fool to fall for them. im sure there are brit soldiers who have never used a gun before and cant aim to save their life too. anyway michelle, now ive provided the link, i hope you carry on your independent research. thank you for the pm, no offense taken by me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted August 23, 2004 #36 Share Posted August 23, 2004 I'm not trying to tell you your british media is lying to you but anyone's a fool who DOESN'T think they're being lied to. Amen sister... Although the US has freedom of the press, it doesn't necessarily mean that the press actually gets all of the information required to construct a complete story(should the press actually decide to offer a balanced view of something) on a particular subject. I am not saying that there is some kind of a conspiricy, just that the press gets partial information(i.e. Whatever information that makes it onto the press release or press conference which has already been filtered for content by the folks who released it) on a story and then again filters it through whatever their own bias may be before it gets to the end consumer. There is always a chasm between the truth of the matter and the reported truth of the matter... What we read or hear is only a portion of the actual truth of the matter and it can take several sources to get different points of view on a matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted August 23, 2004 #37 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Thank you, Master Fluff, you don't know who much that means to me coming from you. I have really been so shocked at the media from other countries. I've not lived a sheltered life but I got so upset for a minute I couldn't breath. This election has just gotten me so torn up. By the time it's over (and then it's still NOT over) I'm afraid I won't know my a$$ from a hole in the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAZ76US Posted August 24, 2004 #38 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Lol Michelle, amen about the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circles Posted August 24, 2004 #39 Share Posted August 24, 2004 It's a bit hypocritical for an American to say that the British press is lying to us. The last time I checked, the US was ranked only about 35th in the world for Freedom of Press. The UK was ranked far higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted August 24, 2004 #40 Share Posted August 24, 2004 It's a bit hypocritical for an American to say that the British press is lying to us. The last time I checked, the US was ranked only about 35th in the world for Freedom of Press. The UK was ranked far higher. what does freedom of press have to do with anything? it just means its not the government who's lying to you, woopdeedoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted August 24, 2004 #41 Share Posted August 24, 2004 It's a bit hypocritical for an American to say that the British press is lying to us. The last time I checked, the US was ranked only about 35th in the world for Freedom of Press. The UK was ranked far higher. Yeah, but, believe me, people can turn anything into sounding hypocritical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted August 24, 2004 #42 Share Posted August 24, 2004 On thing I like about the forum is that I can go back and prove what I said. But some people will screw around with your words whether they are spoken or in black and white. On the same note if I put my foot in my mouth it's there for all to see. No taking it back. Yes, I would be hypocrital if I said I believed our press and not yours. I said that I don't take for granted the media is telling us the truth no matter what country you're in. I need just a few more facts before I can make up my mind. It's like when a parent tells you not to do something "because I said so". That was not a satisfactory answer when I was a child and it's not one now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gollum Posted August 24, 2004 #43 Share Posted August 24, 2004 your right i dont believe everything the media write. i dont believe i have come across a truly unbiased source yet. biassses can be subtle and i am not a fool to fall for them. im sure there are brit soldiers who have never used a gun before and cant aim to save their life too. Alis, I can assure you that every single British soldier has infact learned how to shoot and to shoot accurately. The British army is not some tin pot regime that lets anyone with half a brain into it ranks. Every British soldier must pass a weapons handling test prior to going onto the ranges and sitting there annual personal weapons test. This test has a pass mark of 48 out of 75. The test consists of firing from different firing positions ranging from standing, kneeling, sitting, prone position(lying down) and firing whilst wearing a resporator(gas mask). Then there is a night shoot which consists of 15 shots in near dark conditions This test is performed annually for regular army personnel and twice a year for T.A. personnel. Just thought I should clarify that before people get the wrong impression about our PROFESSIONAL soldiers. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alis Posted August 24, 2004 #44 Share Posted August 24, 2004 sorry about that gollum, i just assumed since the US soldiers were capable of making such mistakes, our soldiers were too. i shouldnt have assumed they both had the same level of training. sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted August 24, 2004 #45 Share Posted August 24, 2004 HUMANS make mistakes no matter how well trained they are. (The next sound you hear is my head exploding.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alis Posted August 24, 2004 #46 Share Posted August 24, 2004 (edited) yes but youve got to admit someone with a higher level of training will make less mistakes!!! anyway not having any real military knowledge, i dont wish to say whether the brits have a higher level of training than the US but from the reports ive seen, it seems the US soldiers are more careless. Edited August 24, 2004 by alis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted August 24, 2004 #47 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Aaarrrggg...I can't do this anymore. US is going to be insulted every time no matter how reasonable we try to be about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted August 24, 2004 #48 Share Posted August 24, 2004 it seems the US soldiers are more careless. How many US soldiers have you served with? That many? Really? wow... Well, I was in the Army for 8 years as a combat medic, and served on the same base with many Troops from the UK during Desert Storm...British soldiers and American soldiers are all very well trained, the best in the world in my opinion. Mistakes happen in war and friendly fire has been a part of combat since the first caveman threw the first rock to hit dinner. It happens as horrible as it may be. By you above quote it appears that you have already made up your mind on the issue however you may have come to it. You are welcome to make whatever decision you choose but I might recommend looking a bit deeper into the issue past your preconceived notions of how friendly fire accidents happen. Just as Gollum described the testing process for British soldiers; America too has recurring training and testing for its soldiers regardless as to whether or not the soldier is in the infantry or not. I am not going to go into a dissertation as to how friendly fire accidents occur, but I can assure you it isn't as obvious as you think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alis Posted August 24, 2004 #49 Share Posted August 24, 2004 but from the reports ive seen, it seems the US soldiers are more careless. dont get dirty and take it out of context fluffybunny, i did say from the reports, and ive posted a few links too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted August 24, 2004 #50 Share Posted August 24, 2004 I am sorry if I offended you by my quote. It doesn't change the rest of the post though. It seems that you are just aiming to be disagrable in this thread, it that what is going on? Are looking for an argument or would you like to have a better idea of why so many friendly fire accidents happen? If you are just looking for an argument I am sure that there will be many here that can accomodate you, although I do not wish to be a part of that. However if you would like to hear a different perspective on the friendly fire issue, just say so, I have firsthand experience of such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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