Roswell was Soviet plot to create US panic

[psyche101]

Caw Caw... A can of whoopass has been released... so quoth the raven.

To keep returning for more so often, he must have one thick book in his pants.

Or has a strange fetish.

[DONTEATUS]

Looks up at the Stars tonight and wonders what realitys await us?

[Space Commander Travis]

I do not know, surely he expected International condemnation by killing so many? He is known to have said : “I trust no one, not even myself.”

Considering the bomb, I thought that might have been the motivation for such a flight into enemy territory considering the proximity of the crash and the location of the 509th?

Not that I am buying the wing explanation yet, despite the astounding similarity with Arnolds description, and Arnolds impression is that what he saw was man made.

The international community took no notice whatsoever of what he did before the war, why should they suddenly decide to condemn him all of a sudden after the war? And he didn't have a bomb in '47; so why on earth would he risk a war with a country that did have it by doing something as foolhardy as flying into their airspace? That's why he went just as far as he had but no further in Berlin; he was no fool. And then we have to consider the gentically engineered mutants aspect; if the ETh is ruled out as being inherently implausible, what about this?

Surely it'd be much, much simpler to leave the Stalin aspect out of it and just consider that it may have been one of flying wings the USAAF was testing; although that has difficulty getting off the grund either (to paraphrase a friend of ours), since any Air Force personnel would immediately recognise such a thing as an aircraft, even if it was an unconventional shape.

[lost_shaman]

The international community took no notice whatsoever of what he did before the war, why should they suddenly decide to condemn him all of a sudden after the war?

Before the war the Country itself adhered to an Isolationist policy.

Are you suggesting that the post war disposition of the U.S. is hypocritical?

If so? What is that based on? How could the pre-war U.S. have stopped this world-wide insanity?

[Space Commander Travis]

Before the war the Country itself adhered to an Isolationist policy.

Are you suggesting that the post war disposition of the U.S. is hypocritical?

If so? What is that based on? How could the pre-war U.S. have stopped this world-wide insanity?

I'm not saying anyone was hypocritical, I was just saying in response to psyche's point that Stalin would have expected international condemnation, but I don't think he would have done, since no one had up until then, so why suddenly decide to do something so foolish?

[psyche101]

The international community took no notice whatsoever of what he did before the war, why should they suddenly decide to condemn him all of a sudden after the war? And he didn't have a bomb in '47; so why on earth would he risk a war with a country that did have it by doing something as foolhardy as flying into their airspace? That's why he went just as far as he had but no further in Berlin; he was no fool. And then we have to consider the gentically engineered mutants aspect; if the ETh is ruled out as being inherently implausible, what about this?

Surely it'd be much, much simpler to leave the Stalin aspect out of it and just consider that it may have been one of flying wings the USAAF was testing; although that has difficulty getting off the grund either (to paraphrase a friend of ours), since any Air Force personnel would immediately recognise such a thing as an aircraft, even if it was an unconventional shape.

I am sure that responses to Russia's activities, and the level of heat in the cold war must have been at least in part fueled by Stalins more unsavoury activities. But I agree with you on the mutant aspect, I do not think it is a viable option either. All I am saying is that if Stalin was behind the incursion of prototype aircraft into Roswell, that it was not merely the middle of nowhere, byt quite close to the worlds only nuclear capable bomber group. One member said "why the middle of nowhere" and I think this answers that OK as not really the middle of nowhere, but an area of intense interest to Russia.

I just do not think such would be beyond Stalin. Not much was, he was insane.

[Space Commander Travis]

I think that provoking panic would have been a very foolish thing to do before they had a bomb of their own that they could use as a deterrent. And i don't think Stalin was foolish. Insane is not necessarily the same thing as foolish.

[psyche101]

I think that provoking panic would have been a very foolish thing to do before they had a bomb of their own that they could use as a deterrent. And i don't think Stalin was foolish. Insane is not necessarily the same thing as foolish.

Going out on a speculation limb though, if Stalin was behind such an incursion, I do not think the reason would be to panic America, but to steal what they could from the 509th. If he had a bomb of his own, he would not have to fear America any more than America would fear him. One of his first acts of power after the death of Lenin was to bolster intelligence.

[MID]

Devotees of science fiction have been convinced for decades that an alien spacecraft crashed in the desert of New Mexico – and that the American government covered up the recovery of extraterrestrial bodies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8512408/Roswell-was-Soviet-plot-to-create-US-panic.html

It wasn't aliens, it was Nazis, Communists and mutants: New book reveals the 'real' story behind the Roswell landing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386999/Stalin-Joseph-Mengele-Nazi-jet-fighter-New-book-Annie-Jacobsen-reveals-real-story-alien-landing-Roswell.html#ixzz1MJFGqStp

I'm thinking Habitat has the correct location for this one...

I think that Mengele was running, big-time, and hiding from lots of people, including certain Germans, the Soviets, and the Americans in the immediate post war years (and longer!). Stalin was also rather busy re-building his country, and the roughly 72,000 towns and villages that had been destroyed by the Nazi's.

Yes...Stalin teams up with Mengele right after the war to put forth this fantastic thing to induce a scare into the Americans...?

Strangely, it didn't work.

[DONTEATUS]

Remember this Line ? "Is it Safe" Is it ?

[psyche101]

Remember this Line ? "Is it Safe" Is it ?

I like

Hold my beer and watch this!!!!

Always leads to some form of entertainment!

[booNyzarC]

I like

Hold my beer and watch this!!!!

Always leads to some form of entertainment!

Usually the absolute best form of entertainment! LOL

[Paxus]

*Shakes head in disbelief*

LMAO @ "...bring something new to the table or go find a goat to stare at."

[skyeagle409]

Was compartmentalisation deployed within the MOGUL Project - yes or no?

No. The fact that it was just a research project should have been eivdent. I did not think so.

I am yet to see you display respect for the Air Force at all.

Not for misleading the public, and I am not the only one who has served in the Air Force who have placed the Air Force on the other side of the fence. There are former Air Force military personnel, from Generals, on down, placing the Air Force on the other side of the fence of reality. In fact, they have confirmed that the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrials, which is why there are still two Roswell cover stories in effect to this very day.

And now you AGAIN bring up Madson. You could not even spell his name right to begin with! We have had the Madson discussion far too many times now, just answer the question that ends this debate each and every time I ask it.

So, I misspelled his name from time to time, but that doesn't change the fact that he has trashed the Air Force's 1997 Roswell reportt, where he supplied material used in that report.

Why has Madson not taken his claims to court? If he indeed has been misrepresented, and this is not what it appears to be, which is no more than straight out jealousy that McAndrews "took" Madsons slice of the limelight, then he would have a massive case that not even the USAF could rebut, and he would finally validate all the ET kooks. But he cannot do it. If there is a reason other than he is full of it, please put it up for me to see, you have not been able to do so every since you brought up this crybabies pathetic claim.

He was straight to the point that his material was distorted by the Air Force, mainly by McAndrews, so there is no need to even think about taking it to court.

No you do not, and this is why both Lost Shaman and I have had to direct you to parts of the reports to help you straighten out your wildly incorrect perceptions. You have made so many mistakes that it is not funny with regards to implementation of the project. You are an Anti-authority on MOGUL. This is why you make the above silly claims like Madson's embarrassing antics, why you do not understand compartmentalisation, why you keep saying the MOGUL was not classified, when it is a distinction so simple that my 6 year old can understand it.

Project Mogul was nothing more than a research project and nothing else, which flew unclassified research balloons, but I must point out that during the course of their research, scientist reported tracking UFOs over the area, and one of them was none other than Charles Moores, whose report also made it in LIFE magazine. They made it no secret that the UFOs they were observing and tracking, were flying saucers.

And again, military and civilian personnel at Wright-Patterson AFB, have stated for the record that the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrials.

Edited June 2, 2011 by skyeagle409

[psyche101]

No. The fact that it was just a research project should have been eivdent. I did not think so.

Well you are 100% Wrong, yet again

Roswell - What really happened

Project Mogul was a top-secret US military project involving high altitude ballons. [Project Mogul] This project operated uning the concept in the intelligence world of 'compartmentalization', where information on the project was on a strictly 'need-to-know' basis. Most people involved in the project did not know the name of the project, the objective of the project, or the 'modus operandi' of the project. The unclassified purpose of the project was to develop constant-altitude level balloons for meteorological purposes.

It's purpose was to develop a long distance acoustic detection system of soviet nuclear detonations. It had been previously discovered (from World War II era analysis of the globally propagated sound waves produced by Krakatoa in 1883) that there was an acoustic 'duct' in the upper atmosphere between the troposphere and the stratosphere where, with the right type of detection equipment and acoustic microphones, the acoustical signature of nuclear explosions could be detected as they propagated through the upper atmosphere. This information would then be relayed to ground based receivers. It was an early form of eavesdropping.

Synopsis of Balloon Research Findings

Group members launched, tracked, and recorded data only in regard to constant-level balloon flight and telemetering of information. They did not have access to observations and measurements that had military applications. MOGUL, in other words, was conducted as a compartmented, classified project in which participants knew only what they needed to know, and no more. Due to the compartmentations balloon flights made by NYU were divided into two categories, "research" and "service.

Air Force reports on the Roswell UFO incident

The SAF also directed current Air Force elements to reveal records of the “highest classification and compartmentalization,” particularly related to anything of an extraordinary nature.[3](p. 17) Since the recovery of aliens and or spacecraft would presumably be subject to the enhanced security and control protocols of a Special Access Program (SAP), any SAPs which may have existed were ordered to be revealed. None existed, it was reported. The report notes that if these programs existed in secret, they would not have been funded through the Air Force without superior officers being aware of them, or paper trails recording their existence.[3](p. 18)

Air Force reports on the Roswell UFO incident

The SAF also directed current Air Force elements to reveal records of the “highest classification and compartmentalization,” particularly related to anything of an extraordinary nature

The Roswell Incident and Project Mogul

The Mogul project was so classified and compartmentalized that even Moore didn’t know the project’s name until Robert Todd informed him of it a couple of years ago.

UFO Evidence Home > The Roswell Incident > Article / Document

The Mogul project was so classified and compartmentalized that even Moore didn't know the project's name until Robert Todd informed him of it a couple of years ago. The unclassified purpose of the project was to develop constant-level balloons for meteorological purposes.

Roswell Declaration Information Presented by The International Roswell Initiative

With the U.S. Government's high degree of compartmentalization and need-to-know philosophy, chances are that few agencies or individuals would be briefed on or have access to such information.

ROSWELL MARTIN CANNON

The Mogul project was so classified and compartmentalized that even Moore didn't know the project's name until Robert Todd informed him of it a couple of years ago. The unclassified purpose of the project was to develop constant-level balloons for meteorological purposes.

From the most credulous to the most skeptical, none agree with you, and you are completely wrong. You are just making stuff up as you go along now so you can argue. I guess you thrive on the attention from the noobs and the crackpots, so you keep repeating yourself.

You know what I do not see above all the links (quite a few isn't there)? You offering anything to support your position. Just more hot air. You do this all the time, make loud proclamations and then rely on people believing your service stories as if they were true as some type of validation. You appeals to authority are boring and waste time. I really do not care how many waste paper baskets you emptied, or just who the most important persons waste paper basket was that you emptied.

Not for misleading the public, and I am not the only one who has served in the Air Force who have placed the Air Force on the other side of the fence. There are former Air Force military personnel, from Generals, on down, placing the Air Force on the other side of the fence of reality. In fact, they have confirmed that the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrials, which is why there are still two Roswell cover stories in effect to this very day.

Yet you claim you revisit the base constantly. Are they aware of the way your deride the Forces? Where did you serve exactly? I am sure that if you had a commanding officer that he would be MOST interested in your disgruntled comments, and how the organisation he works for are all just liars and are only out to dupe the public.

The Roswell incident did not involve Extraterrestrials. There are not two cover stories in effect, if you read the reports this will become evident to you. They are the only conclusions that the people involved with at the time could come up with considering the scattered and limited information that they worked with. Lost Shaman could show them a thing or two. He tried to enlighten you as well.

So, I misspelled his name from time to time, but that doesn't change the fact that he has trashed the Air Force's 1997 Roswell reportt, where he supplied material used in that report.

You know full well that his only real gripe is that McAndrews stole his limelight.

He was straight to the point that his material was distorted by the Air Force, mainly by McAndrews, so there is no need to even think about taking it to court.

What a very weird thing to say. Anti Logic? That is MORE than enough reason to take his claims to court. Can you explain to me how this will work better for him by sticking to fringe believer sites and entertainment mediums instead of validating his claims in a court of law so that EVERYONE can see his claims and finally take an ounce of stock in them rather than see them as a source of laughter? And then he could expose the USAF and validate so many proponents? Is that "The Plan" is it? Stick with the kookiest medium you can find? Avoid valid sources? This will somehow break the case wide open will it?

Project Mogul was nothing more than a research project and nothing else, which flew unclassified research balloons, but I must point out that during the course of their research, scientist reported tracking UFOs over the area, and one of them was none other than Charles Moores, whose report also made it in LIFE magazine. They made it no secret that the UFOs they were observing and tracking, were flying saucers.

Ohh really, not kidding? MMm and a magazine to back you! Could you not at least pick Playboy? Well done Captain Obvious. I would say that is the 10,000th time you have said that. Surely that deserves a prize! I am sure I can come up with something........

In one breath you call Moore a liar, and the other you say he is a saint that must be believed. You are really messed up, do you know that? What did this "UFO witness" say about Roswell hrrmmmzzz?

And again, military and civilian personnel at Wright-Patterson AFB, have stated for the record that the Roswell incident involved extraterrestrials.

Military personnel like you? Alexander? Django? Or civillians like Fyfe Symmington? Blossom Goodchild? The "ever changing his story" Haut? The man who cannot agree with his own son about alleged debris, and who fabricated a large chunk of his service record and blames Haut for the press release, yes I am talking about Marcel? I see how this is the company you keep, what I fail to see is the credibility.

Just go and read the darn reports so that the exchanges you continually harras me with can at least be partly sensible. I know I ask to much, but one has to try. It is obvious from this pst that you STILL Have not read them! You are the Roswell Anti-authority!

[DONTEATUS]

Like thats not gonna Happen Ever ! People that stare at Goats are in themselfs a very unhappy Lot !

I`ll Stick wit B.B.Q and Great Friends and Drinks !

[psyche101]

Like thats not gonna Happen Ever ! People that stare at Goats are in themselfs a very unhappy Lot !

I`ll Stick wit B.B.Q and Great Friends and Drinks !

Bwahaha, you could diffuse Gaddafi!

You have the right idea mate.

Cheers.

[skyeagle409]

Well you are 100% Wrong, yet again

Roswell - What really happened

How many times have I warned skeptics to beware of certain websites?

Project Mogul was a top-secret US military project involving high altitude ballons. [Project Mogul] This project operated uning the concept in the intelligence world of 'compartmentalization', where information on the project was on a strictly 'need-to-know' basis. Most people involved in the project did not know the name of the project, the objective of the project, or the 'modus operandi' of the project. The unclassified purpose of the project was to develop constant-altitude level balloons for meteorological purposes.

It's purpose was to develop a long distance acoustic detection system of soviet nuclear detonations. It had been previously discovered (from World War II era analysis of the globally propagated sound waves produced by Krakatoa in 1883) that there was an acoustic 'duct' in the upper atmosphere between the troposphere and the stratosphere where, with the right type of detection equipment and acoustic microphones, the acoustical signature of nuclear explosions could be detected as they propagated through the upper atmosphere. This information would then be relayed to ground based receivers. It was an early form of eavesdropping.

Project Mogul was not classified at all. In fact, specifices of its experiements were made public, which goes to show that Project Mogul is not what skeptics think it is, and it shows just how effectively the Air Force was able to duped those who were unaware of what Project Mogul really was, and it had nothing to do with spying n the Soviet Union.

It was known that fallout would be the answer to detecting the Soviet's first nuke blast, and as it was, a modified B-29 detected the Soviet's first blast through air samples. Remember, I posted historical facts that backed my claim.

[skyeagle409]

Well you are 100% Wrong, yet again

The Roswell Incident and Project Mogul

The Mogul project was so classified and compartmentalized that even Moore didn't know the project's name until Robert Todd informed him of it a couple of years ago.

So, Project Mogul was so secret thta even Charles Moore didn't know of the name of Mogul. Just reminding you that came from your own link. Now, for the rest of the story. Whose name appears as Head of Project Mogul. You can go through this unclassified letter that mentions who is head of Project Mogul.by name. You guessed it, the name as head of Project Mogul is none other than Charles Moore.

I have repeatedly warned you that the Air Force was misleading the public all along, but fortunately, the polls show that the majority of Americans didn't believe the Air Force, and rightly so.

Edited June 3, 2011 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

Well you are 100% Wrong, yet again

ts knew only what they needed to know, and no more. Due to the compartmentations balloon flights made by NYU were divided into two categories, "research" and "service.

Air Force reports on the Roswell UFO incident

The SAF also directed current Air Force elements to reveal records of the "highest classification and compartmentalization," particularly related to anything of an extraordinary nature

I am right again, and I have already told you that Mogul balloons were not classified at all, and in fact, were nothing more than unclassified research balloons with questionnaries attached for ordinary civilians with no secuity clearances to add their own data input.

[skyeagle409]

It's purpose was to develop a long distance acoustic detection system of soviet nuclear detonations. It had been previously discovered (from World War II era analysis of the globally propagated sound waves produced by Krakatoa in 1883) that there was an acoustic 'duct' in the upper atmosphere between the troposphere and the stratosphere where, with the right type of detection equipment and acoustic microphones, the acoustical signature of nuclear explosions could be detected as they propagated through the upper atmosphere. This information would then be relayed to ground based receivers. It was an early form of eavesdropping.

We didn't need such acoustical devices to detect the Soviet's nuke blast. We did it by air samples.

Yet you claim you revisit the base constantly. Are they aware of the way your deride the Forces? Where did you serve exactly? I am sure that if you had a commanding officer that he would be MOST interested in your disgruntled comments, and how the organisation he works for are all just liars and are only out to dupe the public.

I have never visited Roswell before, but I will be in Roswell next month and I will take a lot of photos, and after that, I will visit Phoenix again, and take more photos from downtown while facing south.

The Roswell incident did not involve Extraterrestrials.

According to those involve in the Roswell incident at Roswell AAF and the sorrounding areas, , and at Wright-Patterson AFB, the Roswell incident did in fact, involved extraterrestrials.

There are not two cover stories in effect, if you read the reports this will become evident to you. They are the only conclusions that the people involved with at the time could come up with considering the scattered and limited information that they worked with. Lost Shaman could show them a thing or two. He tried to enlighten you as well.

There are still two cover stories in affect, and they are, the Air Force's 1994 and 1997 Roswell Reports.

[skyeagle409]

Well you are 100% Wrong, yet again

Air Force reports on the Roswell UFO incident

The SAF also directed current Air Force elements to reveal records of the "highest classification and compartmentalization," particularly related to anything of an extraordinary nature

Take another look. From one of your own links.

The press release announcing the unusual event was issued by the

Commander of the 509th Bomb Group at Roswell Army Air Field, Colonel

William Blanchard, who later went on to become a four-star general

and Vice Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force.

That the weather balloon story was a coverup has been confirmed by

individuals directly involved, including the late General Thomas

DuBose who took the telephone call from Washington, D.C., ordering

the coverup.

Numerous other credible military and civilian

witnesses have testified that the original press release was correct

and that the Roswell wreckage was of extraterrestrial origin. One

such individual was Major Jesse Marcel, the Intelligence Officer of

the 509th Bomb Group and one of the first military officers at the

scene.

[digitalartist]

We didn't need such acoustical devices to detect the Soviet's nuke blast. We did it by air samples.

Air sampling would only have indicated that a test did occur. The acoustical devices would have been used to narrow down where the testing was taking place as well as the size of the blast, etc...

[Myles]

As crazy as this books theory may seem, it is far more believable than the Alien theory.

[Space Commander Travis]

As crazy as this books theory may seem, it is far more believable than the Alien theory.

There, i think, we have an example of the phenomenon I've observed previously; the idea that anything, however, preposterous, if it has a terrrestrial origin, has to be more plausible than anything involving ExtraTerrestrials. So Josef Stalin cooperating with Joseph Mengele to produce genetically engineered mutants, putting them in a secret plane, developed at no doubt not inconsiderable expense from German technology, and which would outclass anything else in the world by a huge margin in terms of range and performance, and then throwing away this great technological lead you've acquired, by provoking a war with the only nuclear armed power in the world (when he hadn't yet developed nukes of his own), by flying it into their airspace and crashing it (and thus giving the US your ultra-secret aircraft); all that is more believeable than anything involving extraterrestrials?

Really?