Roswell was Soviet plot to create US panic

[psyche101]

It was well known that the Soviet's first blast could be detected by air samples, and that is how the Soviet's frist blast was detected. Project Mogul was nothing more than research, and not anything to do with spying on the Soviets.

Absolute rubbish. I would like to see you back that claim. MOGUL's primary purpose was to develop a system that would specifically assist in detecting Soviet bomb blasts. It would be a quicker way to accomplish this as the WB-29 collected Air Samples. The WB-29 discovered the first traces of radioactivity but it was not all that efficient was it? When it was finally picked up, it was the 112th alert, and more flights were required to gather the initial find. It took weeks. I will grant only that it was ironic that it was a declassified project that finally made the discovery. During 1947-1949, a complex process of review and decision at the Defense Department led to the creation of an "Interim Surveillance Research Net" that was operating routinely by the spring of 1949. A more comprehensive surveillance system integrating radiochemical, seismic, acoustic, and other methods was not yet in place.

But,, Project Mogul was nothing more than a research project. As mentioned before, its experiments were posted in newspapers around the country and, Mogul balloons had questionnairs attached so ordinary civilians who recovered Project Mogul balloons, could add their own data input such as time and location and of the decent rate, etc. In fact, Mogul balloons were recovered by ordinary civilians for rewards and reward tags were attached to Mogul balloons as well.

Good God man, how many times do I need to explain this to you?

The papers called MOGUL a test to detect Cosmic rays. Please offer a headline that says MOGUL to validate your nonsense. The reward tags were for recovery of assets, you forgot to mention that the tags even contained false information that the equipment was volatile to deter those that wanted to figure out what the primary purpose of the experiment was. The data was sensitive, the Ballons themselves and the payload contained no information detrimental to the project. Remember how I posted the definitions for project and balloon? Have another look at that.

What it all means is this, Project Mogul was not indicative of a classified program,. You don't involve ordinary civilians without securtiy clearances in any classified program, and yet, ordinary civilans became involved in the recovery of Project Mogul balloons. When I read where the Air Force has said that Project Mogul was a classfied program, then I knew that a cover-up was in progress, because that is not what the Air Force taught us in regards to classifed prorams in our classes.

What this means is that you have skimmed over the information to form your own conclusion. MOGUL was indeed a classified program. Your own links agree with me. You know the engineers analysis that I knocked down for you? It says:

All components and systems were ordinary off-the-shelf items; only the Mogul program objective was classified.

And what does Kevin Randlesay?

The ultimate purpose, to launch these constant level balloons and send them over the Soviet Union to spy on their atomic programs was classified. The men working in New Mexico probably didn’t know that. All they knew was that they were trying to keep the balloons at a certain altitude for a certain length of time.

And for the sides of the fence, here is a credulous site, it says:

Even though Project Mogul was classified, the kind of threats received by civilians went far beyond the restrictions imposed upon civilians for any other classified project in United States history.

Global Security.orgsite says:

MOGUL, in other words, was conducted as a compartmented, classified project in which participants knew only what they needed to know, and no more.

You are the Roswell Anti-Authority.

Why do you keep harping on about MOGUL when you know very well that the point is moot in light of Lost Shamans Intelligence Hypothesis?

Well, I am leaving Texas soon after 3 1/2 years and heading back home to California and Roswell will happen be on the road on my way home as I pass through New Mexico.

Thank the lord I do not live in California. Time to visit Big D I reckon.

Balloon projects were conducted in the area, and I might add that the balloon teams in New Mexico were also reporting obserrving and tracking flying saucers during their experiments and of course, one of them was none other than Charles Moore, who reported tracking a flying saucer, and Charles Moore's sighting was confirmed by other scientist who have worked with him as well.

So what we have here is, not only were civilians and military personnel reporting flying saucers over the area in New Mexico, but balloons scientist have now made it known that they were also observing and tracking flying saucers as well.

Charles Moores report can be read here.

In addition:

Project Mogul UFO Sightings

One of the ironies of using Project Mogul to try to explain away the Roswell case and other New Mexico sightings is that Mogul and later Skyhook balloon personnel themselves contributed many high-quality UFO sightings.

One very famous Mogul sighting involved Charles Moore on April 24, 1949. An additional irony here is that this is the same Charles Moore that has been

trying so hard in the present-day to debunk the Roswell case as one of his Mogul balloons. Moore's sighting was written up in the equally famous 1952 LIFE Magazine article of high-quality UFO reports and in a 1950 TRUE Magazine article by Naval Commander Robert B. McLaughlin, head of the Naval missile program at White Sands (who unequivocally stated that the flying saucers being spotted by White Sands personnel, including himself, were not only real but extraterrestrial in origin). Moore's sighting is also found in a number of government documents, including those of the CIA, whose scientists were very impressed by it.

My link

This is the same man who blames Roswell on MOGUL. You sure about this interpretation? Do you support Charles Moore in everything he says?

[psyche101]

I have been involved in classified matter while serving in the Air Force and in fact, I faced OSI interviews to vouch for the characters of my co-workers who were to be sent to secret bases within the United States, and, I have well aware of how we conduct classified projects within the Air For rce, which is why I have stated for the record that Project Mogul was not a classified project by any means and was never indicative of any classified program.

Pffft, I have told you that if you served, I do not believe it was more than Janitorial. OSI indeed.

Another appeal to authority that has let you down.

You do not allow ordinary civilians with no security clearances to even come near any classified project and yet, Project Mogul folks allowed ordinary civilians to recover Mogul balloons for reward and to even add their own input on Mogul balloon questionnaires.

How many civillians were privy to the collected data? Tat was the part which maintained a classified status. I have explained this to you in great detail. You seem to really struggle with the ideal of compartmentalisation.

What I can say about all of that is, the Air Force did a fantastic job of duping many folks on Project Mogul.

You would not know.

[psyche101]

I can do so as I have been involved in classified matters while serving in the USAF. In fact, based on my OSI interviews, the Air Force allowed my co-workers to be reassigned to secret bases around the country. To furhter add to that, I am well aware of how we conduct secret operations in regards to our classified assets, which once again, my statement that Project Mogul was not indicative of any classified program run by our military services.

Project Mogul was never a classifed program. The Air Force mislead people on Project Mogul The fact that Mogul balloon operations was recorded in unclassified reccords of A. P. Crary, told us right there that Project Mogul was nothing more than an unclassified research project and nothing else.

Commander McLauglin's unclassified letter, which mentioned Projject Mogul by name was another clue that Project Mogul was not a classified project at all. I must also mention that Project Moby Dick was not a Project Mogul balloon train.

No point in addressing this, it has all been said on the last 2 post save for the McLauglin comment. And I do not need yet another chuckle via your claimed service record. Again you think a personal letter is public domain. When are you going to post a letter that I have written to prove your point, or do you plan to just keep making the same claim without validating yourself endlessly? Personel correspondance, whilst not classified, is not public domain. Please try to wrap your head around this.

[psyche101]

No i'm not. You've read the theory; does that sound more plausible than the suggestion that it may have been (say) a probe from another civilisation? I don't think it does.

Whilst the russian tale does not seem likely, the components of the tale do exist, and are here, unlike our friends the LGM. Whilst LGM surely exist, they only exist here on earth in our imagination.

I do not think ET is more likely. The crashed story is more likely, but neither tale has any substance, nor a reason to believe them. I think it is what the Roswell ETH should consist of. Light entertainment that is not meant to be taken seriously, and I do feel the research and proof offered reflect just that. If I had a gun to my head and had to choose one of the two, I would go with the Russians.

[Space Commander Travis]

Whilst the russian tale does not seem likely, the components of the tale do exist, and are here, unlike our friends the LGM. Whilst LGM surely exist, they only exist here on earth in our imagination.

I do not think ET is more likely. The crashed story is more likely, but neither tale has any substance, nor a reason to believe them. I think it is what the Roswell ETH should consist of. Light entertainment that is not meant to be taken seriously, and I do feel the research and proof offered reflect just that. If I had a gun to my head and had to choose one of the two, I would go with the Russians.

Welll... the components if the tale that we do know exist are;

* Josef Stalin;

* Joseph Mengele; and

* the Horten bomber.

The components that we don't know existed are that:

* Stalin cooperated with Mengele in genetically Engineering mutoids;

* that the USSR developed a bomber, with transatlantic range, based on the Horten design,

and, even more so, that

* Stalin would then have risked a war with the US, at a time when the US had the Bomb and he didn't, by deliberately intruding into US airspace with a Russian bomber.

I think just saying "oh, Stalin was evil and mad" doesn't, as they say, fly as an explanation; he may have been evil, but I don't think he was mad. Paranoid, yes, but not mad in the sense of provoking WWIII just two years after his country had lost millions in WWII.

[lost_shaman]

he may have been evil, but I don't think he was mad. Paranoid, yes, but not mad in the sense of provoking WWIII just two years after his country had lost millions in WWII.

He was both, as he had millions killed in his 'purges' before WWII while at relative peace.

[Myles]

But are any of those intrinsically implausible? No one claims to know where it may have come from (many have guessed, but that's a different thing), so talking about faster than light travel and so on is an irrelevance, and the crash could have been caused by any number of perfectly plausible reasons - bad weather, for instance. By the ocver-up, do you mean at the tinme, or subsequently? Either could quite possibly be accounted for by governmental left-hands-not-knowing-what-right-hands-are-doing, none of it need have been a great conspiracy.

I disagree. In your previous post, you mentioned everything it would take for the Russians to do what was proposed in the book. I think you must consider everything it would take for aliens to crash on Earth. Life on another planet that is advanced enough to create ships capable of traveling to Earth. This must have happened in the last 70 years, so in billions of years, they are capable at this time.

[DONTEATUS]

Man we would all be rich If we had even a penny for every time one said What If !

"Chaching ! " uno-penny.

[Space Commander Travis]

I disagree. In your previous post, you mentioned everything it would take for the Russians to do what was proposed in the book. I think you must consider everything it would take for aliens to crash on Earth. Life on another planet that is advanced enough to create ships capable of traveling to Earth. This must have happened in the last 70 years, so in billions of years, they are capable at this time.

And I still don't think that's any more implausible than Stalin creating genetically engineered mutants with nazi technology.

Edited June 7, 2011 by 747400

[skyeagle409]

Absolute rubbish. I would like to see you back that claim. MOGUL's primary purpose was to develop a system that would specifically assist in detecting Soviet bomb blasts. It would be a quicker way to accomplish this as the WB-29 collected Air Samples. The WB-29 discovered the first traces of radioactivity but it was not all that efficient was it?

It was a very efficient means to gather evidence. A case in point. Workers at Mare Island Shipyard in Vallejo, CA. were being tested positive for nuclear contamination. It was thought that there was a leak in the reactor compartment of the USS Sea Woif, America's second nuclear submarine, but it was later determined that the nuclear comtamination was not the result of a leak within the vessel, but was coming down in a light drizzle that morning. It was later determined that the radioactive fallout was attibuted to a Chinese nuclear blast.

In regards to the Soviet's nuclear accident at Chernobyl, fallout was detected as well. There was no real need to send balloons everyday over the Soviet Union while waiting for them to detonate their nuclear device. How secret would that have been after Soviet's recover spy balloon train equipment on their own soil each day?

When it was finally picked up, it was the 112th alert, and more flights were required to gather the initial find. It took weeks. I will grant only that it was ironic that it was a declassified project that finally made the discovery. During 1947-1949, a complex process of review and decision at the Defense Department led to the creation of an "Interim Surveillance Research Net" that was operating routinely by the spring of 1949. A more comprehensive surveillance system integrating radiochemical, seismic, acoustic, and other methods was not yet in place.

Seismic detection has been used in the past and does not require balloon trains. it would be ludicous to send balloon trains over the Soviet Union each day and not knowing when the first detonation would occur.

The papers called MOGUL a test to detect Cosmic rays. Please offer a headline that says MOGUL to validate your nonsense.

Do you know the rest of the story behind the cosmic ray research? Nuclear detection. Check it out.

Princeton, New Jersey, July 12

(See also

Popular Science Magazine below)

Headlines:

Balloons -- Not Discs: Princeton Gadget Soars 20 Miles High; Records

No Atomic Explosions

28 Balloons Fail To Send Reports On Cosmic Rays -- Attain 20-Mile

Altitude, but Equipment Does Not Give Nuclear Explosion Data

Stratosphere Atom Explosions Probed

Sky Experiment Apparatus Found -- Flight in Stratosphere Fails to Show

Nuclear Explosions Data

My link

it was cheaper to conduct nuclear explosion reasearch by studying cosmic rays than detonating nuclear bombs.

The reward tags were for recovery of assets, you forgot to mention that the tags even contained false information that the equipment was volatile to deter those that wanted to figure out what the primary purpose of the experiment was. The data was sensitive, the Ballons themselves and the payload contained no information detrimental to the project. Remember how I posted the definitions for project and balloon? Have another look at that.

Well, check it out and see for yourself.

QUESTIONNAIRE, REWARD AND WARNING TAGS ATTACHED TO PROJECT MOGUL BALLOONS

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<^>

QUESTIONNAIRE

Please answer this and send to us so that we may pay you the

Reward.

1. On what date and at what hour was the balloon discovered?

2. Where was it discovered? (Approximate distance and direction

from nearest town on map?)

3. Was it observed descending? If so, at what time?

4. Did it float down slowly or fall rapidly?

5. How much kerosene was there in the tank?

C. S. Schneider

Research Division

New York University

University Heights

Bronx 53. New York

__________________________________________________________________

REWARD NOTICE

This is special weather equipment Sent aloft on research by New York Univetity.

It is important that the equipment be recovered. The finder L requested to protect

the equipment from damage or theft. and to telegraph collect to: Mr. C. 5. Schneider.

York University. 18lst St. & University Heights, Box 12. New York City.

L.S.A. Phone: LUdlow 3.6310. REFER TO FLIGHT #-__________

A dollar ($ ) reward and reasonable reimbursement for recovery expense will be

paid if the above instruction* are followed before September 1949.

KEEP AWAY FROM FIRE. THERE IS KEROSENE IN THE TANK.

___________________________________________________________________

****WARNING TAGS****

_______________________

DANGER!

FIRE!

CUT THESE WIRES

BEFORE HANDLING

_______________________

DANGER!

EMPTY THIS ON GROUND

BEFORE HANDLING

What this means is that you have skimmed over the information to form your own conclusion. MOGUL was indeed a classified program. Your own links agree with me. You know the engineers analysis that I knocked down for you? It says:

You don't post classified information in unclassified letters and other unclassifed publications, and you can find the name, Project Mogul in unclassied letters and the program in unclassified records as well.

That is not indicative of the way classified programs are run.

Edited June 7, 2011 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

What this means is that you have skimmed over the information to form your own conclusion. MOGUL was indeed a classified program. Your own links agree with me. You know the engineers analysis that I knocked down for you? It says:

Read the article again. Let's look at some problems with that article. It says.

The AN/CRT-1 Sonabuoy could have compromised Project MOGUL. Although the Sonabuoy was not itself classified, its association with a balloon would have exposed a specific military purpose, an obvious violation of project classification guidelines

And yet, Mogul balloons were occasionally recovered by ordinary civilians with no security clearances.

[skyeagle409]

What this means is that you have skimmed over the information to form your own conclusion. MOGUL was indeed a classified program. Your own links agree with me. You know the engineers analysis that I knocked down for you? It says:

All components and systems were ordinary off-the-shelf items; only the Mogul program objective was classified.

And look what was printed in newspapers around the country.

[quote

Headlines:

Balloons -- Not Discs: Princeton Gadget Soars 20 Miles High; Records

No Atomic Explosions

28 Balloons Fail To Send Reports On Cosmic Rays -- Attain 20-Mile

Altitude, but Equipment Does Not Give Nuclear Explosion Data

Stratosphere Atom Explosions Probed

Sky Experiment Apparatus Found -- Flight in Stratosphere Fails to Show

Nuclear Explosions Data

My link

And, look what elsel was posted in that link.

Summary and conclusion

A mathematical model idealized the debris field as a variable-length, parabola-shaped region sparsely covered with fragments of an extraordinary thin-shell material.

It was assumed that Mogul Flight 4 created the debris field, leaving behind metalized-paper, rawin-radar-target remnants having a known total surface area.

Model-predicted and Mogul Flight 4-supplied thin-shell material surface areas were compared. One Mogul balloon train could account for only an extremely small fraction of the reported debris, even if Major Jesse Marcel had badly overestimated the field size.

Clearly, Project Mogul Flight 4 could not have been responsible for the debris found on the Foster ranch. Indeed, the analysis illustrates in a most compelling fashion just how absurd the Air Force's Mogul hypothesis really is.

Note that he also says, "Mogul Flight 4," which has now been determined, that there were no such thing as Mogul balloon flight #4, and other researchers have now accepted that fact as well.

Edited June 7, 2011 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

And for the sides of the fence, here is a credulous site, it says:

Even though Project Mogul was classified, the kind of threats received by civilians went far beyond the restrictions imposed upon civilians for any other classified project in United States history.[

Now, take another look at what you posted. What problems do you see there in regards to Project Mogul?

it says that it was a classified program, yet its experiment objectives were published in newspapers around the country, and ordinary civilians with no security clearances were invited to add their own data input on questinnaires attached to Mogul balloons. In addition, they were offered rewards for recovering Mogul balloons, and, the name, Project Mogul, was showing up in unclassified letters.

That is not indicative of any classfied program.

Edited June 7, 2011 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

Why do you keep harping on about MOGUL when you know very well that the point is moot in light of Lost Shamans Intelligence Hypothesis?

You know my take on his hypothesis. For an example, you know the folks who were involved in the recovery of the material on the Foster ranch and elsewhere, and who have said that the debris they recovered, was not a balloon? What unit were they attached too?

Edited June 7, 2011 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

Pffft, I have told you that if you served, I do not believe it was more than Janitorial. OSI indeed.

Another appeal to authority that has let you down.

My ivolvement in classified matters while serving in the Air Force was the reason why I told you that you were wrong. That from real experience in the field, , not from the comfort of an armchair in the living room.

Edited June 7, 2011 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

No point in addressing this, it has all been said on the last 2 post save for the McLauglin comment. And I do not need yet another chuckle via your claimed service record. Again you think a personal letter is public domain. When are you going to post a letter that I have written to prove your point, or do you plan to just keep making the same claim without validating yourself endlessly? Personel correspondance, whilst not classified, is not public domain. Please try to wrap your head around this.

Mclaughlin's letter was proof that you were wrong all along on Project Mogul. In addition, he confirmed that his team were also tracking flying saucers overhead during their balloon operations, and one of them was of course, Charles Moore.

[skyeagle409]

Whilst the russian tale does not seem likely, the components of the tale do exist, and are here, unlike our friends the LGM. Whilst LGM surely exist, they only exist here on earth in our imagination.

I do not think ET is more likely. The crashed story is more likely, but neither tale has any substance, nor a reason to believe them. I think it is what the Roswell ETH should consist of. Light entertainment that is not meant to be taken seriously, and I do feel the research and proof offered reflect just that. If I had a gun to my head and had to choose one of the two, I would go with the Russians.

Years ago, a KGB agent was interviewed on TV, and he confirmed that the Roswell headline is what brought special attention to the Soviet Union, particularly to the attention of Stalin, which simply means that the Soviets had nothing to do with the Roswell incident.

[psyche101]

Welll... the components if the tale that we do know exist are;

* Josef Stalin;

* Joseph Mengele; and

* the Horten bomber.

The components that we don't know existed are that:

* Stalin cooperated with Mengele in genetically Engineering mutoids;

* that the USSR developed a bomber, with transatlantic range, based on the Horten design,

and, even more so, that

* Stalin would then have risked a war with the US, at a time when the US had the Bomb and he didn't, by deliberately intruding into US airspace with a Russian bomber.

I think just saying "oh, Stalin was evil and mad" doesn't, as they say, fly as an explanation; he may have been evil, but I don't think he was mad. Paranoid, yes, but not mad in the sense of provoking WWIII just two years after his country had lost millions in WWII.

But we do have elements that we do know exist, surely that is worth something? The ETH is 100% imagination.

I have to side with Lost Shaman here, Stalin was indeed a Madman.

Kill tally: Approximately 20 million, including up to 14.5 million needlessly starved to death. At least one million executed for political "offences". At least 9.5 million more deported, exiled or imprisoned in work camps, with many of the estimated five million sent to the 'Gulag Archipelago' never returning alive. Other estimates place the number of deported at 28 million, including 18 million sent to the 'Gulag'.

LINK

If that does not qualify madness, surely this does?

His findings, published in the journal Science in Context in 2002, outlined how Russia's leading animal breeding scientist, Professor Ilya Ivanov, was ordered to turn his skills to the quest for an ultimate soldier by crossing humans with apes.

Stalin reportedly told the scientist: "I want a new invincible human being, insensitive to pain, resistant and indifferent about the quality of food they eat."

LINK

Again though, I do not feel the OP's tale has anything more to go on than a Anthony Bragalia article, and so not consider it as a likely conclusion. I think if someone wanted to go down this path that starting with an anonymous story was a bad start. Pursing Kenneth Arnold's recollection seems to me the better starting point.

[DONTEATUS]

GOD !@@ the Air is so quickly running out of this thread ! I may have to Send "Saru" a Free all expenses paid Trip to Texas and Feed Him some Real B.B.Q and Shinner Bock`s ,Thats a Texas Cold Beer to all Y`all uninformed. All He can Hold .

Just to Apease the Insainity !

[psyche101]

It was a very efficient means to gather evidence. A case in point. Workers at Mare Island Shipyard in Vallejo, CA. were being tested positive for nuclear contamination. It was thought that there was a leak in the reactor compartment of the USS Sea Woif, America's second nuclear submarine, but it was later determined that the nuclear comtamination was not the result of a leak within the vessel, but was coming down in a light drizzle that morning. It was later determined that the radioactive fallout was attibuted to a Chinese nuclear blast.

In regards to the Soviet's nuclear accident at Chernobyl, fallout was detected as well. There was no real need to send balloons everyday over the Soviet Union while waiting for them to detonate their nuclear device. How secret would that have been after Soviet's recover spy balloon train equipment on their own soil each day?

Although the plane filter were more reliable it took 112 false alerts, and when the detection was finally made, several other flights had to confirm it. It was CHEAPER. It was more reliable. It SUPERSEDED the balloon programs. Why would they send balloons over Chernobyl? You are so far off topic now that it is getting ridiculous. Chernobyl happened decades after the ballon programs discussed were abandoned? Do you think that because at Chernobyl a 30 year old defunct program was not used that ET landed in Roswell do you? Or does the China story somehow prove that MOGUL was not classified? NO. Gracious man. This is a discussion forum, we are not sitting around a fire chewing the fat. Keep on topic please.

You do realise that the MOGUL project was deployed in New Mexico, not Russia?

Seismic detection has been used in the past and does not require balloon trains. it would be ludicous to send balloon trains over the Soviet Union each day and not knowing when the first detonation would occur.

From all that I have read, Mogul was never deployed. It was too expensive and wasn’t all that reliable, though in later years they were very successful on some very long-range flights.

Did the MOGUL Balloon trains fly over Soviet Russia? Why no, they did not! They were Superseded. Remember? This is the point of upgrading programs - to improve the efficiency of the task at hand. Do you understand that much?

So your point is.......... ??????

You know who you might want to have a chat with? Your mate Anthony Bragalia. His blog links to a report that claims MOGUL made the first detection, and offers THIS LINK to a report by a Richard Muller to back this claim, which says under the heading of Project MOGUL

Project Mogul and the "flying disks"

Maurice Ewing had an urgent application for his predicted atmospheric sound channel: the detection of nuclear tests in Russia. In the late 1940s, the "Cold War" had begun, and there was growing fear of the totalitarian communism represented by Russia. They had great scientists, and there was widespread belief that they would be building an atomic bomb soon. At that time, Russia was a very secret and closed society. (In fact, Stalin was starving 30 million "Kulak" farmers, and he could get away with it because he controlled information going in and out. In 1948, George Orwell wrote "1984". You might enjoy my essay "1989 was 1984".)

Ewing realized that as the fireball from a nuclear explosion rose through the sound channel, it would generate a great deal of noise that would travel around the world in the channel. He argued that we should send microphones up into the sound channel to detect and measure any such sound. The microphones that he used were called "disk microphones". You can see them in photographs of old radio shows. Click for an old photo of a disk microphone. There is also a photograph of a somewhat smaller disk microphone used by Orson Wells in his famous 1938 broadcast of the "War of the Worlds", when he actually convinced many listeners that the world was under attack by Martians!

Ewing's idea was to string the microphones under a high-altitude balloon, have them pick up the sounds in the sound channel, and radio them back to the ground. The disk microphones were called "flying disks." (The word flying was not confined to airplanes; it was equally used by ballooners when they went up.) The balloons were huge, and the string of microphones was 657 feet long, longer than the Washington Monument is high: see the diagram of Project Mogul and the Eiffel Tower.

The project was a success. The system detected American nuclear explosions, and then, on August 29, 1949, it detected the first Russian test.

There, I just made your day, go on, go and correct someone, just remember to thank me when you are done.

Do you know the rest of the story behind the cosmic ray research? Nuclear detection. Check it out.

it was cheaper to conduct nuclear explosion reasearch by studying cosmic rays than detonating nuclear bombs.

Is it just me, or is the word MOGUL completely absent from this information? You said MOGUL was public knowledge, so if you can now offer me the headline with MOGUL in it, as previously requested to back your claim, we can put the claim to rest. How are you going with that MOGUL headline?

Well, check it out and see for yourself.

Is that not EXACTLY what I said? Why did you repeat the information? Did the information that I showed you enlighten you so much that you had to show me you agree with me here? See the DANGER signs? They were to try and get people to report the balloons without touching them. Just like I said, so that people would not get too close. Such is obvious as Kerosene was not used on MOGUL flights. This supports what I have been saying.

You don't post classified information in unclassified letters and other unclassifed publications, and you can find the name, Project Mogul in unclassied letters and the program in unclassified records as well.

That is not indicative of the way classified programs are run.

You woud not know how classified programs run. Again, please post one of my unclassified letters to demonstrate how an unclassified letter is public domain. This will demonstrate how if a person writes a letter that the letter can be read by anyone, which is what you are suggesting. Please back your claims and leave the speculation at the door.

[psyche101]

Read the article again. Let's look at some problems with that article. It says.

And yet, Mogul balloons were occasionally recovered by ordinary civilians with no security clearances.

Did you not just trash one of your own sources there?

That very link also says All components and systems were ordinary off-the-shelf items; only the Mogul program objective was classified.

What you have accomplished here is further reason to discount your supporting sources. Saved me some work, well done!

[psyche101]

And look what was printed in newspapers around the country.

[/left]

And, look what elsel was posted in that link.

Again, O do not seem to be able to spot the word MOGUL there. Can you underline it for me?

Note that he also says, "Mogul Flight 4," which has now been determined, that there were no such thing as Mogul balloon flight #4, and other researchers have now accepted that fact as well.

So you do not believe the source that you just used to support your position? That is weird Sky. So tell me, is the above information reliable or not? What you have done here is demonstrated clearly the depth of your cherry picking.

[psyche101]

Now, take another look at what you posted. What problems do you see there in regards to Project Mogul?

it says that it was a classified program, yet its experiment objectives were published in newspapers around the country, and ordinary civilians with no security clearances were invited to add their own data input on questinnaires attached to Mogul balloons. In addition, they were offered rewards for recovering Mogul balloons, and, the name, Project Mogul, was showing up in unclassified letters.

That is not indicative of any classfied program.

You really have trouble with MOGUL don't you. If you could try to understand compartmentalisation you would be able to understand MOGUL a great deal better. Your own copy of the questionnaire carried fake WARNING tags. This was to stop people getting too close. Your information supports what I am saying, you are just trying to cut said information short.

You have still failed to demonstrate the MOGUL was public knowledge. As it was not.

[psyche101]

You know my take on his hypothesis. For an example, you know the folks who were involved in the recovery of the material on the Foster ranch and elsewhere, and who have said that the debris they recovered, was not a balloon? What unit were they attached too?

And you know my take on his Hypothesis, so why all the MOGUL stuff? You cannot undertand the project, it has likely no bearing on the Roswell incident, so what is your point? Are you just trying to get me to teach you more about the MOGUL program?

[psyche101]

My ivolvement in classified matters while serving in the Air Force was the reason why I told you that you were wrong. That from real experience in the field, , not from the comfort of an armchair in the living room.

LOL, are you trying to say you are not in a chair? You have a laptop in the field whilst you type this are you? Your involvement with classified matters I have no doubt extended to emptying shredded documents from one receptacle to another, and the knowledge that you have demonstrated illustrates this. If any at all. I actually have active Government contracts at the moment, have had in the past, and my little sister actually served in an official capacity, and everything I know tells me you are absolutely full of it. That is why you are wrong.