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HAARP software: biblical targets ?

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Rafterman

Yes i did , seriously standing there plugging your ears and shouting down the truth doesn't change the truth. The patent posted is the exact same technology as HAARP. No one has denied that with other than the ever convincing "oh OK" or even better "no you didnt".

And continually stating and restating something that isn't at all accurate is what exactly?

Let's see what Brian Dunning has to say on the matter:

Dr. Eastlund's patent, which has since become popularly known (though inaccurately) as the "HAARP patent", is widely reproduced online, often with much commentary from authors making their own interpretations of how it might be used. Specifically, the patent involves using natural gas to generate electricity to create electromagnetic radiation to excite a tiny section of the ionosphere to about 2 electron volts, thus moving it upward along the lines of the magnetic field. The conspiracy theorists, once again, completely ignore the fact that this can only happen in the ionosphere, and they interpret it as a weather control system or earthquake generating system. Such extrapolations are without any plausible foundation.

A further disconnect in this conspiracy claim is that Dr. Eastlund's patent was for a speculative and unproven device approximately one million times as powerful as HAARP. The patent does not mention HAARP, and none of its drawings remotely resemble anything built at HAARP. For perspective, HAARP's antenna array measures about 1000 feet on a side. A device such as that imagined by Dr. Eastlund would have been 14 miles on a side, with one million antenna elements, compared to HAARP's 180. Furthermore, Dr. Eastlund left APTI to found his own company before the HAARP program began, and was never associated with the program.

Here's the full Skeptoid link: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4122

There's just nothing to any of this HAARP conspriracy silliness. It's a simple research facility that is very open and very public, with hundreds of scientists, professors, and students coming and going on a yearly basis. If this thing were as dangerous as you'd like us to believe, wouldn't it have Groom Lake or Los Alamos type security? It doesn't.

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Farmer77

Show me a good argument. Where's the official statements that coincide with all these natural disasters?

A patent is a patent. I want to see something which makes me believe there's some malevolence going on. Just because HAARP has been blown out of proportion by the media, doesn't give CTs any merit. Everything negative I've heard as of yet, has been purely fictional. If this tech were in the wrong hands, my view of the subject would be reversed.

Well, whatever. These types of conspiracies are filled with so much nonsense, it's next to impossible to know for sure.

You state "a patent is a patent" as if dismissing the information contained therein.

I'm not trying to prove anything other than the fact that this technology has the ability, was in fact designed with the ability to modify weather and have a physical effect on terrestrial and airborne objects.

I cant understand MID and Rafterman's objection to that. Its right there in the patent

You ask for an official statement that coincides with these natural disasters but official from who, the Russians, the US or Norway? We know these three nations are operating this kind of tech, are there any more are out there that we DONT know about?

Finally I will agree that these CT's are so convoluted that the average Joe will never know the WHOLE truth.

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Farmer77

And continually stating and restating something that isn't at all accurate is what exactly?

Let's see what Brian Dunning has to say on the matter:

Dr. Eastlund's patent, which has since become popularly known (though inaccurately) as the "HAARP patent", is widely reproduced online, often with much commentary from authors making their own interpretations of how it might be used. Specifically, the patent involves using natural gas to generate electricity to create electromagnetic radiation to excite a tiny section of the ionosphere to about 2 electron volts, thus moving it upward along the lines of the magnetic field. The conspiracy theorists, once again, completely ignore the fact that this can only happen in the ionosphere, and they interpret it as a weather control system or earthquake generating system. Such extrapolations are without any plausible foundation.

A further disconnect in this conspiracy claim is that Dr. Eastlund's patent was for a speculative and unproven device approximately one million times as powerful as HAARP. The patent does not mention HAARP, and none of its drawings remotely resemble anything built at HAARP. For perspective, HAARP's antenna array measures about 1000 feet on a side. A device such as that imagined by Dr. Eastlund would have been 14 miles on a side, with one million antenna elements, compared to HAARP's 180. Furthermore, Dr. Eastlund left APTI to found his own company before the HAARP program began, and was never associated with the program.

Here's the full Skeptoid link: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4122

There's just nothing to any of this HAARP conspriracy silliness. It's a simple research facility that is very open and very public, with hundreds of scientists, professors, and students coming and going on a yearly basis. If this thing were as dangerous as you'd like us to believe, wouldn't it have Groom Lake or Los Alamos type security? It doesn't.

Good (if slightly convoluted )information, even that though still doesn't dispute the fact that the HAARP tech is based Eastlund's patent, or heck vice versa if that makes you happier - but the point stands that the tech is the same

. As for security UM ive been there and yes it does have pretty intense security, hell its location alone adds a measure of security which los alamos and groom lake dont have

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Rafterman

Good (if slightly convoluted )information, even that though still doesn't dispute the fact that the HAARP tech is based Eastlund's patent, or heck vice versa if that makes you happier - but the point stands that the tech is the same

. As for security UM ive been there and yes it does have pretty intense security, hell its location alone adds a measure of security which los alamos and groom lake dont have

Oh please...saying the tech is the same is like saying someone made a patent for a space shuttle rocket motor and then a related company built and operated a go-kart engine.

Even when the truth is staring you right in the face you still deny it.

Um, yes, right off of a highway. And I'm still trying to find the Groom Lake and Los Alamos webcams on their sites or when the open houses are scheduled - you know, like at HAARP. Man that's crazy super secret!!!!

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Farmer77

Oh please...saying the tech is the same is like saying someone made a patent for a space shuttle rocket motor and then a related company built and operated a go-kart engine.

Even when the truth is staring you right in the face you still deny it.

Um, yes, right off of a highway. And I'm still trying to find the Groom Lake and Los Alamos webcams on their sites or when the open houses are scheduled - you know, like at HAARP. Man that's crazy super secret!!!!

So HAARP and its kin don't affect the ionosphere ? Ok thanks for educating me :rolleyes:

To quote someone else on this forum: Even when the truth is staring you right in the face you still deny it.

And as I stated earlier Gakona is not the only place on earth with this tech.

Edited by bigtroutak

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MID

So HAARP and its kin don't affect the ionosphere ? Ok thanks for educating me :rolleyes:

iNDEED... :rolleyes:

No one here ever denied that HAARP energy excited the ionosphere (That's what it's designed to do!).

What you failed to grasp is the idea that the Ionosphere has NO effect on weather below in the troposphere.

I trust you've learned something and will drop the CT and this nonsensical association with Eastland and HAARP (an association that has only ever come from the Eastland camp...).

To quote someone else on this forum: Even when the truth is staring you right in the face you still deny it.

We trust THEN, that you will cease the denials, put away your dearest illusions, and enjoy the process of learning.

And as I stated earlier Gakona is not the only place on earth with this tech.

Well known by those of us with an interest is that there are, and were, several HAARP-similar sites worldwide. Not Eastland. HAARP-like sites.

What's the point?

..rhetorical. Don't bother. I think this discussion has finally concluded.

You were incorrect. There's nothing about HAARP that has any weather modification or geologic effect. You may entertain your illusions as long as you like, but it gets boring after a while.

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Farmer77

iNDEED... :rolleyes:

No one here ever denied that HAARP energy excited the ionosphere (That's what it's designed to do!).

What you failed to grasp is the idea that the Ionosphere has NO effect on weather below in the troposphere.

I trust you've learned something and will drop the CT and this nonsensical association with Eastland and HAARP (an association that has only ever come from the Eastland camp...).

We trust THEN, that you will cease the denials, put away your dearest illusions, and enjoy the process of learning.

Well known by those of us with an interest is that there are, and were, several HAARP-similar sites worldwide. Not Eastland. HAARP-like sites.

What's the point?

..rhetorical. Don't bother. I think this discussion has finally concluded.

You were incorrect. There's nothing about HAARP that has any weather modification or geologic effect. You may entertain your illusions as long as you like, but it gets boring after a while.

You are correct this conversation has run its course. *snip*

Edited by Saru
Edited for personal attacks

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Farmer77

Oh please...saying the tech is the same is like saying someone made a patent for a space shuttle rocket motor and then a related company built and operated a go-kart engine.

Even when the truth is staring you right in the face you still deny it.

Um, yes, right off of a highway. And I'm still trying to find the Groom Lake and Los Alamos webcams on their sites or when the open houses are scheduled - you know, like at HAARP. Man that's crazy super secret!!!!

Los alamos webcam: http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S1213237.shtml

HAARP webcam : http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/cam1.html

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Rafterman

So HAARP and its kin don't affect the ionosphere ? Ok thanks for educating me :rolleyes:

To quote someone else on this forum: Even when the truth is staring you right in the face you still deny it.

And as I stated earlier Gakona is not the only place on earth with this tech.

Typical CT bait and switch nonsense.

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MID

You are correct this conversation has run its course. *snip*

We trust you shall continue the process (there's an awful lot of knowledge to gain here) without getting something else snipped?

:tu:

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Farmer77

We trust you shall continue the process (there's an awful lot of knowledge to gain here) without getting something else snipped?

:tu:

Nahhh pearls before swine and all that ;)

Edited by bigtroutak

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turbonium

Rafterman had it right.

You wouldn't have been allowed in either, nor would I....

Especially if we were a well-known nut with a Conspiracy TV show, and at the gate with a TV crew and cameras and all that crap demanding to get inside.

How can you possibly claim it's all above board, and that they have nothing to hide, when they ARE hiding it from everyone??

This is just nonsense.

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MID

How can you possibly claim it's all above board, and that they have nothing to hide, when they ARE hiding it from everyone??

Actually, all I've ever explained is what HAARP actually does, directed people to where they too can learn some of it, and explained its completely un-classified character and frequent research publication.

It's certainly above board. However, it's a little beyond the average CT to accept such a thing.

However, they are not hiding anything from anyone at HAARP. It's all right there for the lookin'.

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turbonium

Actually, all I've ever explained is what HAARP actually does, directed people to where they too can learn some of it, and explained its completely un-classified character and frequent research publication.

It's certainly above board. However, it's a little beyond the average CT to accept such a thing.

However, they are not hiding anything from anyone at HAARP. It's all right there for the lookin'.

You claim it's all above board, which is false. You claim "it's all right there for the lookin'", which is false.

The fact is that we are NOT allowed into the facility.

You simply choose to ignore that fact.

It's very clear that you have no intention of an honest debate, since you fail to acknowledge the blatant contradiction in your claim.

I see no point in wasting any more of my time on this matter.

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MID

You claim it's all above board, which is false. You claim "it's all right there for the lookin'", which is false.

Ahh, true to form, you neglect the small matter of your burden of proof.

The fact is that we are NOT allowed into the facility.

From the HAARP site itself---

Can I visit HAARP?

The HAARP Research Station does not employ sufficient on-site staff to allow routine tours of the facility. Entry to the facility is normally restricted to those having a need to conduct business at the facility.

We recognize that there is great interest in the scientific work of the facility. In response to this interest, HAARP schedules open houses at which any and all are invited to visit the site. Several scientists are usually present at these open houses so that visitors can talk directly with those who use the facility for research. Open houses have been held most years since 1995 and have proven to be a popular event. The most recent open house was held on July 17, 2010.

How can I find out about the Open Houses?

Open Houses are generally held during the summer season. The dates and times are announced in advance in Alaska newspapers and on the HAARP Home Page.

The fact IS...you are wrong. You wanted a routine tour, perhaps, any old time you like? Only Jesse Ventura would try that...for a stupid TV show.

You couldn't get that in most establishments of business anywhere.

Try an open house.

You simply choose to ignore that fact.

Actually, I simply chose to show you the facts. This isn't hard to find, Turb.

To see you take the intellectually lazy, easy CT side of an argument again isn't surprising.

It's very clear that you have no intention of an honest debate, since you fail to acknowledge the blatant contradiction in your claim.

I see no point in wasting any more of my time on this matter.

:rofl::w00t:

I think that's wise...

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turbonium

The fact IS...you are wrong. You wanted a routine tour, perhaps, any old time you like? Only Jesse Ventura would try that...for a stupid TV show.

You couldn't get that in most establishments of business anywhere.

Try an open house.

An 'open house' is your notion of honesty and transparency? Get serious. I mean, you could make a filthy crack-house look like a kiddie daycare center in an 'open house'!! It's worthless.

!

Ventura is also a well-known former Governor of Minnesota, not any Joe Blow off the street. The reason for his visit to the HAARP facitilty is to get the truth.

If they had nothing to hide, they'd have jumped at the chance to prove it, and put all those 'nutty conspiracists' in their place...

But they won't do that.

What a crock.

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MID

An 'open house' is your notion of honesty and transparency? Get serious. I mean, you could make a filthy crack-house look like a kiddie daycare center in an 'open house'!! It's worthless.

!

Ventura is also a well-known former Governor of Minnesota, not any Joe Blow off the street. The reason for his visit to the HAARP facitilty is to get the truth.

If they had nothing to hide, they'd have jumped at the chance to prove it, and put all those 'nutty conspiracists' in their place...

But they won't do that.

What a crock.

:w00t:

I must say that it is beneficial every once in a while to just laugh out loud.

You have on occassion provided that type of theraputic value here.

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kitco

The Earth has been overrun by Greed, Hate, Anger, Lust, Hippocrite's, slanderer's, lover's of Money rather then self worth.

"God Smite us all!"

But seriously why do we have to play god all the time? I think it is best to leave mother nature alone, quit p***ing her off or she might just kick us out!

Edited by kitco

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MID

The Earth has been overrun by Greed, Hate, Anger, Lust, Hippocrite's, slanderer's, lover's of Money rather then self worth.

"God Smite us all!"

Easy now!

Honestly, there's some truth to what you say up there, but is this all loving, all knowing, omnipotent God you speak of actually into smiting us all?

But seriously why do we have to play god all the time? I think it is best to leave mother nature alone, quit p***ing her off or she might just kick us out!

Who is it that's "playing God?" Who's messing with mother nature?

:)

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Mentalcase

An 'open house' is your notion of honesty and transparency? Get serious. I mean, you could make a filthy crack-house look like a kiddie daycare center in an 'open house'!! It's worthless.

!

Ventura is also a well-known former Governor of Minnesota, not any Joe Blow off the street. The reason for his visit to the HAARP facitilty is to get the truth.

If they had nothing to hide, they'd have jumped at the chance to prove it, and put all those 'nutty conspiracists' in their place...

But they won't do that.

What a crock.

That's only an opinion. Actually, since they have little to nothing to hide, why would they care either way? Would you shut down a place of business, just to have some distractions take away your income? This is a place of business and study. The last thing any of those employees are thinking, is CT! So, I think you should leave this opinion behind, personally. I wouldn't let someone come into my place of business and create havoc. Ventura is well known for his antics. I like the guy, but he is loud annoying and over-bearing.

Edit; shpeellling

Edited by Mentalcase

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turbonium

That's only an opinion. Actually, since they have little to nothing to hide, why would they care either way? Would you shut down a place of business, just to have some distractions take away your income? This is a place of business and study. The last thing any of those employees are thinking, is CT! So, I think you should leave this opinion behind, personally. I wouldn't let someone come into my place of business and create havoc. Ventura is well known for his antics. I like the guy, but he is loud annoying and over-bearing.

Edit; shpeellling

They hardly need to shut down for a couple guys touring the facility! The excuses you and MID make for HAARP are absurd.

Anyway, you just keep right on believing anything they tell you. I'd rather see the proof for what someone is claiming, thanks....

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Mentalcase

You can believe in faeries too, but if the proof of their existence hasn't been proven, then what? Just blindly believe I suppose.

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turbonium

You can believe in faeries too, but if the proof of their existence hasn't been proven, then what? Just blindly believe I suppose.

Exactly. So let's revise your comment, using HAARP...

'You can believe in the claims that HAARP has nothing to hide, but if the proof of their claims hasn't been proven, then what? Just blindly believe I suppose.'

It fits into your comment quite well, wouldn't you agree?

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MID

They hardly need to shut down for a couple guys touring the facility! The excuses you and MID make for HAARP are absurd.

:w00t:

Anyone here run a business?

Anyone here work at a manufacturing facility, private industrial facility?

Hell, anywhere: Dryden Flight Research Facility, U.S. Airways Maintenance Center, Pfizer, Inc. manufacturing Facility???

Just let anyone in for a tour, unannounced, unplanned?

Some nut pulls up with a TV crew and wants in.

You let him?

:wacko:

You've got to make arrangements for that, and, the facility doesn't have to grant special tours, either.

What world do you live in Turb?

...rhetorical question.

As I said:

I must say that it is beneficial every once in a while to just laugh out loud.

You have on occassion provided that type of theraputic value here.

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