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Soul Kitchen

12 year old girl w/God-given painting talent?

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Beckys_Mom

Honestly I don't have anything to brag about...

My figure drawings

Ok you can sketch ...but when you said this...

I can kick her ass real hard.

Hmmm you can kick the ass of a child in drawing.... IMO two different artists .....If you feel it is fair to compare yourself to a kids art...I hate to break it to you...but this kids work..was more impressive to look at...and I am being honest

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ambelamba

Certainly impressive for a twelve year old - but most of it does look like stuff you'd find painted on velvet. Like Kraft M&C, it's the cheesiest. Hardly divine inspiration.

Maybe she's the reincarnation of the guy who painted all those dogs playing poker?

That was what I tried to say.

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ambelamba

Ok you can sketch ...but when you said this...

Hmmm you can kick the ass of a child in drawing.... IMO two different artists .....If you feel it is fair to compare yourself to a kids art...I hate to break it to you...but this kids work..was more impressive to look at...and I am being honest

I guess you don't study that many paintings....it's all right. I would be impressed if the kid can paint like Odd Nerdrum or something. But her style is definitely kitsch and look like velvet paintings...

And here's some discussions on her art at a real artist forum. Enjoy.

Edited by ambelamba

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Mr. Miyagi

I guess you don't study that many paintings....it's all right. I would be impressed if the kid can paint like Odd Nerdrum or something. But her style is definitely kitsch and look like velvet paintings...

It comes down to personal taste. Like you said, her rendering is nice. I prefer more dynamic compositions in regards to living forms. Some of Frazetta's stuff comes to mind, athough even his work was somtimes too... vertical, I guess, in composition?

I like her use of color and and her imaginary landscapes are more impressive to me than her other material.

Go figure. Alot of people hate Frazetta too.

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ambelamba

It comes down to personal taste. Like you said, her rendering is nice. I prefer more dynamic compositions in regards to living forms. Some of Frazetta's stuff comes to mind, athough even his work was somtimes too... vertical, I guess, in composition?

I like her use of color and and her imaginary landscapes are more impressive to me than her other material.

Go figure. Alot of people hate Frazetta too.

Right. I am not sure about Frazetta because he can be a bit lazy about anatomy.

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Sherapy

Not true, I have a highly talented friend who I have known for 25 years she has never had a music lesson in her life, however she can listen to any piece of music and pick up any instrument and within 5 minutes play the musical piece back to you. Some people really are just gifted. She is also ambidextrous.And an amazing woman.

Interesting, even with the courses I have taken on the musical geniuses, none of them were like that. They worked very hard and started very young. I studied Mozart, Beethoven, Hayden, Liszt, and Chopin.

Of course I do not deny there may be amazing people, but I think they are extremely rare.

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norwood1026

Logical fallacy.

Think about it... One could have personally deduced that God is real based on personal experience, and in effect believe in God as to say something was God-Given.

If someone sees a Gorilla, but some people don't believe in the Gorilla, then they are not allowed to say anything about Gorillas?

Technically, God can't be proven false, but CAN be proven real. Humans just haven't figured a good way to do so. And God, being omnipotent and all, could easily show himself at any given time.

I know how much you like opportunities to make passively smug comments against monotheism, but come on.

Religion & God/s are all about faith & nothing else it's not a crack against Christianty this goes for ALL religions. I can no more prove that what I believe is real then anyone else here can.

Edited by norwood1026

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norwood1026

But you can say god was influenced on to a child.. Maybe come from a religious family that made the child think it was a godly gift?

The pic of Jesus ..he has a bit of the HOFF hairstyle...but the image is how the white folks pic Jesus....I saw this as no surprise, the image she painted has been seen many times before and hung in many households as portraits

If the girl had of painted a vision of god that no one has ever pictures before... then it would make you think yes.gif

As you said IF. As Children we have all heard or seen pictures of what Jesus was supposed to have looked like.

Edited by norwood1026

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Soul Kitchen

Religion & God/s are all about faith & nothing else it's not a crack against Christianty this goes for ALL religions.

That goes for all religions with the assumption that there is no spiritual truth to any religion.

Faith and nothing else? It has to start somewhere, norwood.

A caveman sees fire and worships it as the workings of a magical being. This isn't faith, it's just observation.

Alternatively, Moses could have had a genuine encounter with God through the burning bush. We don't know for sure, but in such a case Moses' spirituality would most certainly not have been based on faith.

I can no more prove that what I believe is real then anyone else here can.

Alright then, so why can't someone call her talent God-given?

It could be logically believable among the some that are closely associated with her.

Edited by Soul Kitchen

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Soul Kitchen

Not wanting to rain on Copa's parade, but you are probably on the right track.

I wouldn't say her 'visions' are necessarily epilepsy, but there is a good possibility they are seizure-related. People who have (minor) strokes, for example, are sometimes unable to relate their experience linguistically if the stroke occurs in the left-hemisphere. Essentially, the right-hemispheric dominant functions (visual processing, 'creative' functions) become the victims only means of perception while the stroke is in effect.

The relative isolation of the left hemisphere (if not complete), at this time, can seem to cause the sensation of another presence to the individual affected - both the left and right hemispheres of the brain have their own 'identity', which normally operate as a co-operative singular 'person identity'.

In the case above, the left-hemisphere 'sensed presence' may appear to communicate with the person's 'right-hemisphere occupying' identity. This grants extra 'believability' to the notion that 'presence' is an actual separate entity, but it is possible becuase the main linguistic processing centre of the brain is left-hemisphere located. The individual often cannot fully comprehend what the 'left-brain presence' is saying and this lends to the sense of mystery.

Throw in the cultural-religious iconography surrounding us on a near perpetual basis, and you have your "trip to heaven".

A question...

If this is all the result of some neurological abnormality, then wouldn't there be some fairly noticeable signs? Most Savonts don't come off as 100% normal.

Then again, this isn't the same as a human calculator, it's just painting that impresses people that don't paint(like me).

I just can't get over how good her techniques seem to be. From what I know of painting, it seems that to paint in the way she does, one needs to have had some education of the techniques that have been developed over the centuries. It's not just the fact that she can draw a human figure, it's the conventional appearance of her paintings that suprised me and made me suspicious of a fraud.

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norwood1026

That goes for all religions with the assumption that there is no spiritual truth to any religion.

Faith and nothing else? It has to start somewhere, norwood.

A caveman sees fire and worships it as the workings of a magical being. This isn't faith, it's just observation.

Alternatively, Moses could have had a genuine encounter with God through the burning bush. We don't know for sure, but in such a case Moses' spirituality would most certainly not have been based on faith.

Alright then, so why can't someone call her talent God-given?

It could be logically believable among the some that are closely associated with her.

Faith is where is starts observation something that occurs once you have said faith.

I never said you can't call her talent God given but calling it that doesn't make it true.

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kitco

A great way to turn an ordinary painting into a painting worth 3 million, yes lets say its inspired by god, I hope everyone know she is a fake, and a greedy one at that. lol 3 million dollers, geez you would think if it was inspired by god she wouldnt sell them, because real christians arent materialistic.

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Moonie2012

A great way to turn an ordinary painting into a painting worth 3 million, yes lets say its inspired by god, I hope everyone know she is a fake, and a greedy one at that. lol 3 million dollers, geez you would think if it was inspired by god she wouldnt sell them, because real christians arent materialistic.

I can't really fault her for it. If some idiot wants to pay 3 mil for her pics, more power to her. I'd sure as hell do the same in her shoes.

Edited by Moonie2012

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Soul Kitchen

Faith is where is starts observation something that occurs once you have said faith.

No.

As I explained with the caveman and moses, an observation can result in the spirituality that may demand faith from other people, but faith isn't necessary if the spirituality originated and was validated by personal observation.

I never said you can't call her talent God given.

you can't say it was given to her by God.

It's okay, we all make mistakes. :tu:

but calling it that doesn't make it true.

Of course not, noone said it did.

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Ravinar

Kitsch!

From a technical point of view, her picture are very well drawn, amazingly if you put her age into context. But if I look at her pictures as pieces of Art, I find them rather boring and uninspired. Are they worth 3 million US dollars? I don't think so.

art and beauty is subjective. her work is obviously worth 3mill to some one. unless your talking about conceptual art of course cuz that is objectively just crap.

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Copasetic

A question...

If this is all the result of some neurological abnormality, then wouldn't there be some fairly noticeable signs? Most Savonts don't come off as 100% normal.

Then again, this isn't the same as a human calculator, it's just painting that impresses people that don't paint(like me).

I just can't get over how good her techniques seem to be. From what I know of painting, it seems that to paint in the way she does, one needs to have had some education of the techniques that have been developed over the centuries. It's not just the fact that she can draw a human figure, it's the conventional appearance of her paintings that suprised me and made me suspicious of a fraud.

No, human neural and cognitive development exists on a spectrum. Its not an abnormality, its simply that people who's right cortex and neo-cortex dominants thought patterns exist on the other end of the spectrum from people who are left-dominant.

Its actually interesting to note, that people who started off as just being "gifted" at artistic endeavors (music, painting etc), but later become trained actually switch to left-dominant processing when undertaking those endeavors. They approach it from an analytical, almost "math-like" approach, after training.

Like I pointed out in my post though, this isn't just unique to "new" humans. People literally all the time, have strokes, vascular insults, tumors etc, that switch their functionally dominant hemisphere to the right cortex/neo-cortex and all of a sudden have crazy artistic abilities.

Edited by Copasetic

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ChloeB

No, human neural and cognitive development exists on a spectrum. Its not an abnormality, its simply that people who's right cortex and neo-cortex dominants thought patterns exist on the other end of the spectrum from people who are left-dominant.

Its actually interesting to note, that people who started off as just being "gifted" at artistic endeavors (music, painting etc), but later become trained actually switch to left-dominant processing when undertaking those endeavors. They approach it from an analytical, almost "math-like" approach, after training.

Like I pointed out in my post though, this isn't just unique to "new" humans. People literally all the time, have strokes, vascular insults, tumors etc, that switch their functionally dominant hemisphere to the right cortex/neo-cortex and all of a sudden have crazy artistic abilities.

That sounds like my mom. She had some kind of stroke when she was a baby, but they didn't realize it because she hadn't learned to walk or speak yet when it happened, but she couldn't walk until about 2, one leg was a little shorter than the other as a result. She could pick up a brush and paint anything, never took a lesson. She had to learn to be left-handed since she never had good use of her right hand, but it took them until she was an adult to finally figure out what had happened to her. She had TIAs her whole life, but what you said just made me think of her, she ended up being a draftsman. And you wouldn't have looked at her and known anything was different about her, except the minor deficit she had on right side, but it wasn't that noticeable, but talking to her, she seemed like anyone else.

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norwood1026

No.

As I explained with the caveman and moses, an observation can result in the spirituality that may demand faith from other people, but faith isn't necessary if the spirituality originated and was validated by personal observation.

So just because it can't be explained by said people one is to assume that God/s had a hand in it?

It's okay, we all make mistakes. :tu:

:whistle:

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Soul Kitchen

No, human neural and cognitive development exists on a spectrum. Its not an abnormality, its simply that people who's right cortex and neo-cortex dominants thought patterns exist on the other end of the spectrum from people who are left-dominant.

Its actually interesting to note, that people who started off as just being "gifted" at artistic endeavors (music, painting etc), but later become trained actually switch to left-dominant processing when undertaking those endeavors. They approach it from an analytical, almost "math-like" approach, after training.

Like I pointed out in my post though, this isn't just unique to "new" humans. People literally all the time, have strokes, vascular insults, tumors etc, that switch their functionally dominant hemisphere to the right cortex/neo-cortex and all of a sudden have crazy artistic abilities.

Now that you say it, I do recall some stories of that. Like the man who got his head messed up by a jet turbine and ended up with artistic ability.

I guess it's because I don't paint that I was impressed with this.

As I said, her paintings looked advanced in a conventional way. It seemed like the kind of painting that needed prior instruction.

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Soul Kitchen

So just because it can't be explained by said people one is to assume that God/s had a hand in it?

Not at all.

What I said people can't assume that it wasn't God's hand.

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Copasetic

Now that you say it, I do recall some stories of that. Like the man who got his head messed up by a jet turbine and ended up with artistic ability.

Yep. But like I pointed out in my first post, its important to realize that these "abilities" aren't just the result of vascular accidents like the Jet guy or Chloe's mom (I'm glad everything turned out okay for your mom Chloe). How we develop occurs on a spectrum and some people just tend toward one end over the other.

I guess it's because I don't paint that I was impressed with this.

In deed. You know this is an interesting tie in to you OP. I've often suspected that when people say such an such an artist was "divinely" inspired or that a god was working through said artist it is because a bit of jealously. Maybe not jealously in the conventional use of the word, but like you pointed out because people can't do similar artistic things, it makes it hard to imagine that others could. Or maybe we don't want to imagine and want to pass it off as the intervention of the divine. It cheapens human endeavor in my opinion.

As I said, her paintings looked advanced in a conventional way. It seemed like the kind of painting that needed prior instruction.

Not at all. Just like there are people that can solve math equations with no prior instruction, or carve stone, or draw, painting and expression of ideas in your mind through painting is something, some people just excel at. Like some of the critics on the topic though (and I'd imagine to any worthy art professor), I'm sure to the trained eye you could recognize the nuances of untrained and raw talent.

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Soul Kitchen

Yep. But like I pointed out in my first post, its important to realize that these "abilities" aren't just the result of vascular accidents like the Jet guy or Chloe's mom (I'm glad everything turned out okay for your mom Chloe). How we develop occurs on a spectrum and some people just tend toward one end over the other.

I suppose.

Indeed. You know this is an interesting tie in to you OP. I've often suspected that when people say such an such an artist was "divinely" inspired or that a god was working through said artist it is because a bit of jealously. Maybe not jealously in the conventional use of the word, but like you pointed out because people can't do similar artistic things, it makes it hard to imagine that others could. Or maybe we don't want to imagine and want to pass it off as the intervention of the divine. It cheapens human endeavor in my opinion.

Jealousy? Not at all.

Not at all. Just like there are people that can solve math equations with no prior instruction, or carve stone, or draw, painting and expression of ideas in your mind through painting is something, some people just excel at. Like some of the critics on the topic though (and I'd imagine to any worthy art professor), I'm sure to the trained eye you could recognize the nuances of untrained and raw talent.

But painting is different.

It's one thing having a good eye for proportions and being able to accurately draw figures. It's another being able to create such effects as she does with layers of paint with conventional looking techniques.

But if she started painting at an early age, I suppose it's concievable that she could develop the techniques. It's just that when one compares it to awkward looking antique artwork that is supposedly masterful, there is a contrast.

2695982749_3383ec35cd.jpg

Jesus-and-Cross-BR550.jpg

It's one thing being able to accurately draw a human figure, it's another knowing how to apply techniques of lighting to it with paint.

I'm suprised at how she figured it out on her own.

But all I am doing with this is justifying my initial opinion, I do see that it is concievable that this is just the result of neurological phenomenon.

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Beckys_Mom

As you said IF. As Children we have all heard or seen pictures of what Jesus was supposed to have looked like.

I also said IF she painted a vision of what she calls god and we haven't seen anything like it before...then it would make me think...Of course you know that IF that did happen, many religious would call her a fake and most likely claim satan was involved

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norwood1026

Not at all.

What I said people can't assume that it wasn't God's hand.

People can assume anything they wish too.

I also said IF she painted a vision of what she calls god and we haven't seen anything like it before...then it would make me think...Of course you know that IF that did happen, many religious would call her a fake and most likely claim satan was involved

Very true! :tu:

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Beckys_Mom

Very true! :tu:

What the wee girl painted.. wasn't too far off this image of Jesus

Jesus-The-Cross.jpg

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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