Pim van Lommel (part one) Consciousness

[markdohle]

Pim van Lommel (part one)

Consciousness Beyond Life

[marharthm]

Consciousness is just the intelligence to know you have influences around you.

[0011235813]

This means that entities that never lived could have conscious thought. Maybe demons do exist?

[Taut]

Hmmm. Well I think it's a much bigger mystery than that. I think you left out some considerations there marharthm,

No offense intended.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Taut

[digitalartist]

Consciousness after life is just an unproved concept.

[StarMountainKid]

So it's like a sort of generic, non-local Consciousness is floating around and attaches itself to a human brain at some point in the brain's early development, and becomes that brain's conscious personality.

After death, that consciousness, infused with that specific personality, continues to exist separate from space and time.

I'm not criticizing, this just seems to me what possibly is happening if all this is true.

[Mr. Miyagi]

So it's like a sort of generic, non-local Consciousness is floating around and attaches itself to a human brain at some point in the brain's early development, and becomes that brain's conscious personality.

After death, that consciousness, infused with that specific personality, continues to exist separate from space and time.

I'm not criticizing, this just seems to me what possibly is happening if all this is true.

That's roughly the traditional Buddhist notion as well. Not believeing in the existance of a soul an all. Although after death that conciousness "attaches" itself to a new person upon birth, as the story goes until that cycle has ended.

I haven't watched the vid yet. I will as soon as I get the chance!

Edited June 6, 2011 by Mr. Miyagi

[StarMountainKid]

What's also interesting to me, as the gentleman says at the end of the video, the brain generates electro-chemical information. What entity is transforming this information into our conscious experience?

When we consciously see something, how is this visual brain-data represented in our consciousness as an image? How does our brain create light within our consciousness when there is no light in our skulls, for instance? As the gentleman says, who is seeing?

As consciousness is conscious of itself, is this consciousness-of-itself a separate entity from raw consciousness?

If consciousness is an activity of the brain as a method created by the brain to be an awareness of the brain's information, it seems to me that this would be only brain self-awareness, and would not necessarily be consciousness as we personally experience it as self. Without this consciousness-of-itself, would we experience self at all?

Perhaps this recursive consciousness-of-itself is non-local consciousness, of which the speaker in the video is talking about.

[0011235813]

What's also interesting to me, as the gentleman says at the end of the video, the brain generates electro-chemical information. What entity is transforming this information into our conscious experience?

When we consciously see something, how is this visual brain-data represented in our consciousness as an image? How does our brain create light within our consciousness when there is no light in our skulls, for instance? As the gentleman says, who is seeing?

As consciousness is conscious of itself, is this consciousness-of-itself a separate entity from raw consciousness?

If consciousness is an activity of the brain as a method created by the brain to be an awareness of the brain's information, it seems to me that this would be only brain self-awareness, and would not necessarily be consciousness as we personally experience it as self. Without this consciousness-of-itself, would we experience self at all?

Perhaps this recursive consciousness-of-itself is non-local consciousness, of which the speaker in the video is talking about.

You have used the word "conscious" so many times it no longer makes sense.

[StarMountainKid]

You have used the word "conscious" so many times it no longer makes sense.

Lol, I was conscious of that when I wrote that post. You just have to sort it out. I had to.

[Khrono]

Imagine if you will a programmed virtual world. The characters within this virtual world would have a number of pre set values and possible actions indicating this characters unique existence within this world. If given millions of pre-set values and a localized form of memory for each character, these rendered beings may begin to resemble conscious individuals. However it is at this point that we must remember that a more complex , powerful , and in most programs separate A.I server exists. This A.I. server does not completely define the existence of the character in this world, the millions of presets for each character controls the calculations behind the individual. Much like our brains conduct the calculations of consciousness. However, this A.I. Server contains a copy of these calculations, and actions, and memories in order to check against the world server for inconsistencies thus maintaining position consistancy across all computers accessing this world server. Changes are made on the localized program, this data is sent to the A.I. Server who checks constancy with the world server. What if our concsiousness exists in a similar fashion? The holographic nature and the algorithmic progression of the universe already indicates a posability that we exist in a rendered environment. Maybe this too adds to that idea.

[StarMountainKid]

Interesting idea, Khrono. It brought to my mind Arthur C. Clarke's novel, 'The City and the Stars':

The City and the Stars takes place a billion years in the future, in the city of Diaspar.

In Diaspar, the entire city is run by the Central Computer. Not only is the city repaired by machines, but people's lives are created by the machines as well. The computer creates bodies for the people of Diaspar to live in and stores their minds in its memory when they die. At any time, only a small number of these people are actually living in Diaspar, the rest sleeping in the computer's memory banks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_and_the_Stars

We may live in some kind of rendered environment, as well. Human's quest for the ultimate reality may always be thwarted by our mind's inability to comprehend the A.I. Server, which lies external to our programmed consciousness.

[Khrono]

Sounds like an interesting read, I've always rather respected Mr. Clark, I'll have o check it out!

[Khrono]

Sounds like an interesting read, I've always rather respected Mr. Clark, I'll have o check it out!

[philbo]

The whole NDE experience may be real...but as for consciousness surviving the death of the brain....bunkem.

[philbo]

You heard it from him plain and simple....282 patients surviving cardiac arrest after being dead equal amounts of time...did not report having any conscious thoughts or memory.

This pretty much answers the question right there.

The guy is selling a book..he knows those 280 rubbish the concept.Why?

If consciousness survives death and is seperate from brain function..then everybody would report NDE.

But commonsense tells you that this concept is tosh....just look at people who have dementia, some form of brain damage...they are gone,memories included...erased.

This could not happen if consciousness was seperate from brain function.

[0011235813]

You heard it from him plain and simple....282 patients surviving cardiac arrest after being dead equal amounts of time...did not report having any conscious thoughts or memory.

This pretty much answers the question right there.

The guy is selling a book..he knows those 280 rubbish the concept.Why?

If consciousness survives death and is seperate from brain function..then everybody would report NDE.

But commonsense tells you that this concept is tosh....just look at people who have dementia, some form of brain damage...they are gone,memories included...erased.

This could not happen if consciousness was seperate from brain function.

It doesn't have to be about people. What I'm more interested in: Can things that never lived (i.e demons) have conscious thought?