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Persia

Efforts to Ban Circumcision Gain Traction

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bacca

I have a friend who had to have a circumcision after a car accident. He was very unhappy for about two years, until he started forgetting how the feeling was before. Now he is OK with it, although he knows it is not as good as before.

And as stated before the guy I know who had to have it done said it was better for HIM after...so it depends on the person...there is NO WAY anyone can know the right choice, that's why it is up to the parents to decide what THEY feel is best for THEIR child

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FLOMBIE

And as stated before the guy I know who had to have it done said it was better for HIM after...so it depends on the person...there is NO WAY anyone can know the right choice, that's why it is up to the parents to decide what THEY feel is best for THEIR child

Because they know that? :unsure2:

I am strictly against cutting anything off a body without a medical reason, or the patient's decision to have it done.

Edited by FLOMBIE

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ShadowSot

Why should parents be allowed to slice bits off their child?

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bacca

Because they know that? :unsure2:

I am strictly against cutting anything off a body without a medical reason, or the patient's decision to have it done.

And that is fine FOR YOU...but again what makes you qualified to decide that for other people? Why do you feel it's ok to impose your view on everyone else? How do you feel about people imposing their views on you? Or don't you think you should be able to make decisions for you and your children, but rather let other people do it for you?

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FLOMBIE

What makes the parents qualified to decide that? Can they state a proper reason why it's being done?

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ShadowSot

And that is fine FOR YOU...but again what makes you qualified to decide that for other people? Why do you feel it's ok to impose your view on everyone else? How do you feel about people imposing their views on you? Or don't you think you should be able to make decisions for you and your children, but rather let other people do it for you?

I take issue with people who feel it's a right to slice bits off their child for no reason excepting vanity.

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FLOMBIE

Exactly.

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bacca

So you feel because you have a problem with it that you should be able to make that choice for everyone? I take exception with a lot of things that people do so as a parent I choose to not do them, it's that simple...But I am not so full of myself to think that just because I don't like something, even some things that I feel are harmful to the child, that I should try to force everyone to follow my way of thinking...It's kind of ridiculous actually for people to think that because they think one way everyone else should comply with them...

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bacca

And just for your information, there are A LOT of good reasons to have it done...

Are there benefits from circumcision?

There are several:

1 Many older men, who have bladder or prostate gland problems, also develop difficulties with their foreskins due to their surgeon's handling, cleaning, and using instruments. Some of these patients will need circumcising. Afterwards it is often astonishing to find some who have never ever seen their glans (knob) exposed before!

2 Some older men develop cancer of the penis - about 1 in 1000 - fairly rare, but tragic if you or your son are in that small statistic. Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection.

3 Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. Surely that alone makes it worth doing?

4 Protection against HIV and AIDS. Another British Medical Journal article in May 2000 suggested that circumcised men are 8 times less likely to contract the HIV virus. (It is very important here to say that the risk is still far too high and that condoms and safe sex must be used - this applies also to preventing cancer of the cervix in women who have several partners.)

A BBC television programme in November 2000 showed two Ugandan tribes across the valley from one another. One practised circumcision and had very little AIDS, whereas, it was common in the other tribe, who then also started circumcising. This programme showed how the infection thrived in the lining of the foreskin, making it much easier to pass on.

5 As with HIV, so some protection exists against other sexually transmitted infections. Accordingly, if a condom splits or comes off, there is some protection for the couple. However, the only safe sex is to stick to one partner or abstain.

6 Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.

7 Balanitis is an unpleasant, often recurring, inflammation of the glans. It is quite common and can be prevented by circumcision.

8 Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely.

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ShadowSot

So you feel because you have a problem with it that you should be able to make that choice for everyone? I take exception with a lot of things that people do so as a parent I choose to not do them, it's that simple...But I am not so full of myself to think that just because I don't like something, even some things that I feel are harmful to the child, that I should try to force everyone to follow my way of thinking...It's kind of ridiculous actually for people to think that because they think one way everyone else should comply with them...

So you think it's a right for a parent to slice bits off of a child.

To rephrase, do you think people should have the right to force on another physical harm, and that others have no right to take issue with this?

Do you also feel they have the right set up arranged marriages or to sell their children?

I, personally, feel that decisions on what to do with one's body should be left up to the person to when they are able to make the decision for themselves.

Do you also have similar approval of female circumcision?

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bacca

As posted above there are numerous health reasons to have it done, it is a surgical procedure that a parent has the right to make if they feel it is in the best interests of the child or for whatever reason they feel is needed to make such a decision...There are NO benefits to female circumcision, and it really does harm the woman in ways that it does not do to a man so you are trying to prove a point about one thing by throwing in useless comments, did you even read the benefits? probably not because to see that it is HEALTHIER to have it done then to not have it done would not suite what you want to believe and force on everyone else.

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ShadowSot

And just for your information, there are A LOT of good reasons to have it done...

Are there benefits from circumcision?

There are several:

1 Many older men, who have bladder or prostate gland problems, also develop difficulties with their foreskins due to their surgeon's handling, cleaning, and using instruments. Some of these patients will need circumcising. Afterwards it is often astonishing to find some who have never ever seen their glans (knob) exposed before!

2 Some older men develop cancer of the penis - about 1 in 1000 - fairly rare, but tragic if you or your son are in that small statistic. Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection.

3 Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. Surely that alone makes it worth doing?

4 Protection against HIV and AIDS. Another British Medical Journal article in May 2000 suggested that circumcised men are 8 times less likely to contract the HIV virus. (It is very important here to say that the risk is still far too high and that condoms and safe sex must be used - this applies also to preventing cancer of the cervix in women who have several partners.)

A BBC television programme in November 2000 showed two Ugandan tribes across the valley from one another. One practised circumcision and had very little AIDS, whereas, it was common in the other tribe, who then also started circumcising. This programme showed how the infection thrived in the lining of the foreskin, making it much easier to pass on.

5 As with HIV, so some protection exists against other sexually transmitted infections. Accordingly, if a condom splits or comes off, there is some protection for the couple. However, the only safe sex is to stick to one partner or abstain.

6 Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.

7 Balanitis is an unpleasant, often recurring, inflammation of the glans. It is quite common and can be prevented by circumcision.

8 Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely.

Many of those are based off of myths, or based off of old research.

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bacca

Well why don't you post the new research saying that it is harmful and that there are NO benefits to it

Oh and I'm still waiting patiently to hear why you feel that you should be able to make this choice for everyone else...

Edited by bacca

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FLOMBIE

Like ShadowSot said, most are myths, especially the cancer/HIV prevention stuff. I can post some good reasons why you should not do it, though.

1. It hurts your baby!

2. Pain at such a young age can be traumatic.

3. The foreskin is meant to be there.

4. It is important for the sensation during sex, as well as it's important for the act as well.

5. Cutting it off prevents the biological cleaning mechanism.

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FLOMBIE

Well why don't you post the new research saying that it is harmful and that there are NO benefits to it

Oh and I'm still waiting patiently to hear why you feel that you should be able to make this choice for everyone else...

You twist it around. Somebody who is circumcising his son is taking away his babies rights! If YOU want to have a circumcision, have it done, but don't force it on your baby. He can never have it back.

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bacca

Like ShadowSot said, most are myths, especially the cancer/HIV prevention stuff. I can post some good reasons why you should not do it, though.

1. It hurts your baby!

2. Pain at such a young age can be traumatic.

3. The foreskin is meant to be there.

4. It is important for the sensation during sex, as well as it's important for the act as well.

5. Cutting it off prevents the biological cleaning mechanism.

It hurts your baby? for about 2 minutes and they don't have a formed enough brain for it to be remembered for more then a few seconds after that...if you are trying to say that it is traumatic enough that a 5 day old baby would have lasting effects you are crazy, do you remember being born? do you remember being a week old and what happened to you? Again the sex thing is debatable as some men prefer it after the circumcision, and having the foreskin can cause bacteria to get trapped hence causing medical problems....so next reasons

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Bendy Demon

If it is an issue about hygiene then why not teach boys on how to keep it clean then?

It can't be any harder than teaching a girl how to properly clean themselves after using the bathroom.

If circumcisions are to be considered normal, healthy and practically mandatory then why not require all kids of a certain age to undergo appendectomies?

After all those things can get blocked or infected too and since it is practically useless, or so we are told, then what's the harm in slicing it off? At least the patient will receive anesthetic unlike those poor boy babies who scream and wail during the procedure.

I am sure that older males, who opt for the procedure, are given local anesthetics. Babies aren't.

It hurts your baby? for about 2 minutes

So you'd have no problem with someone taking a scalpel and slicing into an area that is apparently quite sensitive?

And for what? Because of what the medical establishment says?

Edited by Ryu

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ShadowSot

Well why don't you post the new research saying that it is harmful and that there are NO benefits to it

Oh and I'm still waiting patiently to hear why you feel that you should be able to make this choice for everyone else...

I'm waiting to hear why parents have the right to lop of pieces of their children. Do the children have no rights themselves?

The webpage contains links to each of the studies for the points listed in it.

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bacca

If it is an issue about hygiene then why not teach boys on how to keep it clean then?

It can't be any harder than teaching a girl how to properly clean themselves after using the bathroom.

If circumcisions are to be considered normal, healthy and practically mandatory then why not require all kids of a certain age to undergo appendectomies?

After all those things can get blocked or infected too and since it is practically useless, or so we are told, then what's the harm in slicing it off? At least the patient will receive anesthetic unlike those poor boy babies who scream and wail during the procedure.

I am sure that older males, who opt for the procedure, are given local anesthetics. Babies aren't.

Babies scream and wail after birth too, so should all births be done by c-section to prevent discomfort? They also scream and wail after shots, when they are hungry, wet, want to be picked up or for no reason what so ever...What pain babies feel can not be measured, again as their brains are not developed it's hard to truly tell and there is the whole thing about they can't talk and don't remember anything more then a minute ago to deal with...Even a man who cleans it as he is supposed to can risk getting an infection, causing health problems..

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bacca

I'm waiting to hear why parents have the right to lop of pieces of their children. Do the children have no rights themselves?

The webpage contains links to each of the studies for the points listed in it.

Parents are responsible to do what they feel is best for their children, if they feel it is the best choice then again who are YOU to tell them that they are wrong? As a parent we decide a million things with out asking the child what they want, Do you have kids? Can I tell you what to do or not to do? You obviously feel that other people should have a say in what can and can not be done to your children...Lets say your child had an illness and you did personal research and found that you did or did not want something done, who should make that choice for your child? By what you have been saying it should be a vote and your opinion doesn't matter....If I choose to have my son circumcised and he gets angry then I have to deal with that later, if I don't get it done and he gets angry then I have to deal with that later, either way, it's not your problem and other people need to stay out of these choices.

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Doctor_Strangelove

Well then a parent should not be allowed to make the decision to get a child immunizations because there is a possibility of it causing problems!! Also a parent should not be allowed to force a child to go to school or eat vegetables...It's insane, a parent makes a choice on millions of things for their children why anyone thinks that this should be any different I don't understand...

I don't think vaccinations or vegetable eating is nearly comparable to literally cutting off a piece of their dick.

School could be to some people, but that's a different story.

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ShadowSot

Parents are responsible to do what they feel is best for their children, if they feel it is the best choice then again who are YOU to tell them that they are wrong? As a parent we decide a million things with out asking the child what they want, Do you have kids? Can I tell you what to do or not to do? You obviously feel that other people should have a say in what can and can not be done to your children...Lets say your child had an illness and you did personal research and found that you did or did not want something done, who should make that choice for your child? By what you have been saying it should be a vote and your opinion doesn't matter....If I choose to have my son circumcised and he gets angry then I have to deal with that later, if I don't get it done and he gets angry then I have to deal with that later, either way, it's not your problem and other people need to stay out of these choices.

So, a parent should be able to circumcise their daughters as well.

Or, remove finger, or do whatever they want to the child, and Child Protective services should be just closed down all together.

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bacca

I don't think vaccinations or vegetable eating is nearly comparable to literally cutting off a piece of their dick.

School could be to some people, but that's a different story.

If the argument is that you are forcing something on the child then it is comparable, lets say that you choose to get them vaccinated and the child gets sick...they get chicken pox from the vaccine and have scares, or have to be hospitalized, and that can be traumatic all those needles etc...then you choose this and caused the child harm...again if you feel it is wrong don't do it to your sons, but other then that it is not anyone's choice but the parents

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Pax Unum

All the women I've asked about 'it' being clipped or not, say they find clipped more aesthetically pleasing, and more clean/sanitary... Of course the sampling is rather limited, It's a difficult thing to work into a conversation... At least for me... :lol:

BTW, If the decision was left up to the individual, I doubt many would. I sure wouldn't put 'Lil buddy' under the knife... :no:

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Michelle

http://www.coloradonocirc.org/myths.php

Just a little linky that has some good information if anyone is interested.

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