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Persia

Efforts to Ban Circumcision Gain Traction

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Michelle

BTW, If the decision was left up to the individual, I doubt many would. I sure wouldn't put 'Lil buddy' under the knife... :no:

Who would without a medical reason. :lol:

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Doctor_Strangelove

Parents are responsible to do what they feel is best for their children, if they feel it is the best choice then again who are YOU to tell them that they are wrong?

The issue is when is getting rid of the foreskin ever what is best for their children? A lot of doctors want it banned, no offence, but I think they know what is best for your child medically.

As a parent we decide a million things with out asking the child what they want, Do you have kids? Can I tell you what to do or not to do? You obviously feel that other people should have a say in what can and can not be done to your children...

Oh god, I hope I don't have kids. I think the whole "Ain't no gov'ment telling me what to do with mah babby" isn't valid when you're cutting a piece of their dick off.

Lets say your child had an illness and you did personal research and found that you did or did not want something done, who should make that choice for your child? By what you have been saying it should be a vote and your opinion doesn't matter....If I choose to have my son circumcised and he gets angry then I have to deal with that later, if I don't get it done and he gets angry then I have to deal with that later, either way, it's not your problem and other people need to stay out of these choices.

Okay, let's clarify something:

Foreskin =/= Disease.

Foreskin = Part of the frigging penis.

It sometimes disturbs me that we live in a society that outlaws marijuana but is perfectly okay with cutting off part of person's penis without their consent for vanity reasons.

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FurthurBB

So you think it's a right for a parent to slice bits off of a child.

To rephrase, do you think people should have the right to force on another physical harm, and that others have no right to take issue with this?

Do you also feel they have the right set up arranged marriages or to sell their children?

I, personally, feel that decisions on what to do with one's body should be left up to the person to when they are able to make the decision for themselves.

Do you also have similar approval of female circumcision?

I chose to have my son circumcised and I would do it again. I would just leave one state to go to another if it was banned there. I understand that you have a problem with it, but I decided it was the very best course of action for my son after extensive research. We need less government intrusion in our lives, not more. This law is extraneous, unnecessary, and could lead places that you do not want to go. I would also probably have a tail removed, an extra finger, or fix a cleft palet and those are for completely cosmetic reasons.

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Kelbie25

Being from England I prefer the normal penis. :rofl:

It is only done here when there is a medical necessity, and quite right. There are no benefits to having a circumcised penis, unless of course to alleviate existing medical conditions.

All the reasons put forth so far are based on myths. Basic hygiene which we all should instil upon our children is suffice in maintaining a clean penis.

Sexual pleasure is also dulled for the circumcised male, during circumcision thousands of nerve endings are lost.

Furthermore, you do not OWN your children, what gives anyone the right to alter a persons body without their permission?

Edited by Kelbie25

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FurthurBB

If it is an issue about hygiene then why not teach boys on how to keep it clean then?

It can't be any harder than teaching a girl how to properly clean themselves after using the bathroom.

If circumcisions are to be considered normal, healthy and practically mandatory then why not require all kids of a certain age to undergo appendectomies?

After all those things can get blocked or infected too and since it is practically useless, or so we are told, then what's the harm in slicing it off? At least the patient will receive anesthetic unlike those poor boy babies who scream and wail during the procedure.

I am sure that older males, who opt for the procedure, are given local anesthetics. Babies aren't.

So you'd have no problem with someone taking a scalpel and slicing into an area that is apparently quite sensitive?

And for what? Because of what the medical establishment says?

An appendectomy is not even in the same ballpark as circumcision. Posts like this make me think there is some kind of emotional issue here. It is never good to make important decisions from an emotional state.

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bacca

Being from England I prefer the normal penis. :rofl:

It is only done here when there is a medical necessity, and quite right. There are no benefits to having a circumcised penis, unless of course to alleviate existing medical conditions.

All the reason put forth so far are based on myths. Basic hygiene which we all should instil upon our children is suffice in maintaining a clean penis.

Sexual pleasure is also dulled for the circumcised male, during circumcision thousands of nerve endings are lost.

Furthermore, you do not OWN your children, what gives anyone the right to alter a persons body without their permission?

If this is accurate then a parent has NO right to make ANY decisions for a child...so a child at the moment of birth becomes the only one able to make decisions so I hope that they understand that they need shots etc...

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ShadowSot

I chose to have my son circumcised and I would do it again. I would just leave one state to go to another if it was banned there. I understand that you have a problem with it, but I decided it was the very best course of action for my son after extensive research. We need less government intrusion in our lives, not more. This law is extraneous, unnecessary, and could lead places that you do not want to go. I would also probably have a tail removed, an extra finger, or fix a cleft palet and those are for completely cosmetic reasons.

What are the specific reasons you found it valid to have his foreskin removed?

Much of the research Ihave found states no great health benefit to be gained.

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ShadowSot

If this is accurate then a parent has NO right to make ANY decisions for a child...so a child at the moment of birth becomes the only one able to make decisions so I hope that they understand that they need shots etc...

Important issues are one thing, vanity modifications are another.

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Doctor_Strangelove

If this is accurate then a parent has NO right to make ANY decisions for a child...so a child at the moment of birth becomes the only one able to make decisions so I hope that they understand that they need shots etc...

Somewhere we need to find a line between making NO decisions for your child and cutting off a part of their frigging dick.

What terrifies me about this thread is how it's mostly men for the ban and women against it. If that doesn't make me terrified for the safety of my genitals, I don't know what would.

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FurthurBB

What are the specific reasons you found it valid to have his foreskin removed?

Much of the research Ihave found states no great health benefit to be gained.

Well, there are many medical reasons, but alone the fact that 1 in 3 uncircumcised men have a health issue related to the foreskin in their lifetime would have been enough for me. Also, the fact that part of both my husband's family and my family are Jewish and we already have to balance enough between both sides. This was an easy one that appeased part of the family and the other part also agreed with.

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questionmark

If this is accurate then a parent has NO right to make ANY decisions for a child...so a child at the moment of birth becomes the only one able to make decisions so I hope that they understand that they need shots etc...

There is absolutely no medical indication for circumcision.

What is next? Ear clipping?

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Kelbie25

If this is accurate then a parent has NO right to make ANY decisions for a child...so a child at the moment of birth becomes the only one able to make decisions so I hope that they understand that they need shots etc...

What do you mean if this is right?

You do not own your children, they are not a possession. You do not own their bodies nor do you own their human rights.

Yes of course you make decisions for them when they are children, we have a duty to be responsible for them and to nurture, how does this extend to deciding which body parts they may or may not have. That decision should be theirs and theirs alone to make, their body their choice. Do you understand it now?

Edited by Kelbie25

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The Skeptic Eric Raven

I will tell you from a cosmetic only reason, I am very glad to have been circumcised.

I have a friend that isn't and he wishes he had been, but said the pain to do it now would be too much.

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FurthurBB

There is absolutely no medical indication for circumcision.

What is next? Ear clipping?

I would ask what is next to ban? Should we no longer fix cleft palets? 98% of cleft palet repair has no medical necessity. My daughter split her lip open when she was a baby, it only needed to be stitched for cosmetic reasons, was I torturing her for getting it stitched? What about extra appendages? One of my friends had a baby with 2 thumbs on one hand that were attached to each other and two thumbs on the other hand that were separate. He has five surgeries to repair the one hand and another surgery to remove the extra one on the other hand. Is she a monster, should we ban this practice?

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bacca

In my life most of the men I know have had it done and not a one has problems or doesn't have fulfilling sex lives, so what is the issue? If a man was circumcised and doesn't have pleasure maybe that isn't the cause? Is it to hard for people to say maybe it's not that? I know my better half doesn't complain about feeling etc...if you do again maybe you should look at another cause, if you remember having it done at a day old then you should be rich man, and if you haven't had it done then you don't know if it would make a difference...As a woman I have seen the data, in the last year have even had a conversation with a doctor about and it is recommended...it is a choice that is and should be made by the parents, there is no line of what is the parents choice and what isn't as a parent you make medical decisions for your children until they are 18...by they way of thought here no medical decisions should be made by the parent so if your 13 year old daughter wants her breasts enlarged she should be able to do so, as it is her body and cosmetic right? The parents should have no say?

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I would ask what is next to ban? Should we no longer fix cleft palets? 98% of cleft palet repair has no medical necessity. My daughter split her lip open when she was a baby, it only needed to be stitched for cosmetic reasons, was I torturing her for getting it stitched? What about extra appendages? One of my friends had a baby with 2 thumbs on one hand that were attached to each other and two thumbs on the other hand that were separate. He has five surgeries to repair the one hand and another surgery to remove the extra one on the other hand. Is she a monster, should we ban this practice?

They should ban every non-medical necessary intervention in a minor. And with that I mean every non-necessary intervention.

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FLOMBIE

alone the fact that 1 in 3 uncircumcised men have a health issue related to the foreskin in their lifetime would have been enough for me.

I have never heard of that. 1 of 3? What kind of issues?

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I will tell you from a cosmetic only reason, I am very glad to have been circumcised.

I have a friend that isn't and he wishes he had been, but said the pain to do it now would be too much.

That depends on where you grew up. In Europe and most of Asia you would stick out like a sore thumb.

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Doctor_Strangelove

In my life most of the men I know have had it done and not a one has problems or doesn't have fulfilling sex lives, so what is the issue? If a man was circumcised and doesn't have pleasure maybe that isn't the cause? Is it to hard for people to say maybe it's not that? I know my better half doesn't complain about feeling etc...if you do again maybe you should look at another cause, if you remember having it done at a day old then you should be rich man, and if you haven't had it done then you don't know if it would make a difference...As a woman I have seen the data, in the last year have even had a conversation with a doctor about and it is recommended...it is a choice that is and should be made by the parents, there is no line of what is the parents choice and what isn't as a parent you make medical decisions for your children until they are 18...by they way of thought here no medical decisions should be made by the parent so if your 13 year old daughter wants her breasts enlarged she should be able to do so, as it is her body and cosmetic right? The parents should have no say?

Circumcision isn't really comparable to a boob job a 13 year old wants but the parents don't, it's more comparable to a boob job to a boob job on a young child that the parent's want and the child doesn't know about.

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bacca

Circumcision isn't really comparable to a boob job a 13 year old wants but the parents don't, it's more comparable to a boob job to a boob job on a young child that the parent's want and the child doesn't know about.

Why? the parents opinion or what they believe doesn't matter right? If I research something and I believe the view that it is healthier and not worth the risks later of not having my son circumcised but that doesn't matter because I'm just the lowly parent who shouldn't be making decisions for my child based off of my knowledge and the recommendations of my doctor then why shouldn't my 13 year old daughter be able to get a boob job? It's her body and she is the one who has to live with it right? And she should have to wait until she is 18 because it's her body, and what she understands is the only thing that matters right? If my 12 year old son doesn't want to get a vaccine before entering the 6th grade he shouldn't have to right? I as his parent should not be able to make him do it? I mean come on a parent doesn't own the child they can't make them do anything that they don't want to do...

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I have never heard of that. 1 of 3? What kind of issues?

I would like to know that too.

Because no matter what study claims that there are medical benefits so far has been found faulty or using non-appropriate evidence. Starting with Van Hoowe (2006) and ending with Ross et al. What is undisputed is that studies conclusively demonstrate intense pain after the procedure in infants (Kirya 1978,Marshal 1982, Howard 1994, Lander 1997).

If you ask me, parents who are willing to let their infants experience pain for cosmetic reasons should loose their right to parenthood on the spot.

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Kelbie25

What I mean by dulling sexual pleasure: The penis glans (The part the foreskin covers on an intact male) is very sensitive. If a male was circumcised as a child, they have from circumcision to maturity with the glans exposed thus desensitising the glans as a result.

Furthermore when a male is circumcised as a child they have no point of comparison, so of course they will still find sexual stimulus pleasurable only not as pleasurable as it would have been.

Also if a man was circumcised as an adult, he still has years for the penis to be desensitised in this way.

No one should make permanent decision without being fully informed first.

Edited by Kelbie25

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bacca

What I mean by dulling sexual pleasure: The penis glans (The part the foreskin covers on an intact male) is very sensitive. If a male was circumcised as a child, they have from circumcision to maturity with the glans exposed thus desensitising the glans as a result.

Furthermore when a male is circumcised as a child they have no point of comparison, so of course they will still find sexual stimulus pleasurable only not as pleasurable as it would have been.

Also if a man was circumcised as an adult, he still has years for the penis to be desensitised in this way.

No one should make permanent decision without being fully informed first.

It is not a fact that a man loses any feeling, it is said but hasn't been proven, so it is somewhat irrelevant...If a parent wants to give their child even a slight chance of helping them later in life it is no different then giving the polio vaccine, or the no vaccine for young girls that might help prevent cancer, it might work, there are risks but as a parent you weigh the options and you do what YOU feel is in the best interests of your child...here are some things to look at..

Benefits and Drawbacks

According to the AAP, research suggests that there may be some medical benefits to circumcision. Boys who have been circumcised are at reduced risk for:

Foreskin infections

Urinary tract infections

Penile cancer

Sexually transmitted diseases

Phimosis, a condition in uncircumcised males that makes foreskin retraction impossible

Here are some of the reasons parents may decide not to have their baby circumcised:

Surgical risks: As with any surgery, circumcision has some risks. Complications are rare and usually minor. The most common complications are bleeding and infection.

Penile damage: Very rarely, the foreskin may be cut too short or too long. Equally unlikely is improper healing from the circumcision. These complications may require another circumcision or -- in extreme cases -- penile reconstruction.

Alteration of penile sensitivity: Some people claim that circumcision may lessen the sensitivity of the tip of the penis, decreasing sexual pleasure later in life. However, this hasn't been proven to be true.

Fear of pain: Some parents choose not to circumcise their sons because they are worried about the pain the baby may feel.

Protection of the tip of the penis: When the foreskin is removed, the tip of the penis may become irritated, causing the urinary opening to become too small. This could lead to urination problems that may need to be surgically corrected.

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Kelbie25

I will tell you from a cosmetic only reason, I am very glad to have been circumcised.

I have a friend that isn't and he wishes he had been, but said the pain to do it now would be too much.

When a man is fully 'Fledged' there is very little difference.

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Doctor_Strangelove

Why? the parents opinion or what they believe doesn't matter right?

Again, I think there is a line somewhere between letting a child take full control of every action and letting a parent mutilate their genitals at birth. Colour me crazy, but every viewpoint doesn't need to be an extreme one.

If I research something and I believe the view that it is healthier and not worth the risks later of not having my son circumcised but that doesn't matter because I'm just the lowly parent who shouldn't be making decisions for my child based off of my knowledge and the recommendations of my doctor then why shouldn't my 13 year old daughter be able to get a boob job?

I'm confused, is there many risks that come with not having your foreskin removed? You know, that aren't already been debunked as myths? If so, I guess Europe is on their own.

It's her body and she is the one who has to live with it right? And she should have to wait until she is 18 because it's her body, and what she understands is the only thing that matters right? If my 12 year old son doesn't want to get a vaccine before entering the 6th grade he shouldn't have to right? I as his parent should not be able to make him do it? I mean come on a parent doesn't own the child they can't make them do anything that they don't want to do...

Again, I'm not going to address every point of this argument, instead I'll quote myself from earlier in this post.

Again, I think there is a line somewhere between letting a child take full control of every action and letting a parent mutilate their genitals at birth. Colour me crazy, but every viewpoint doesn't need to be an extreme one.

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