Mr_Snstr Posted June 20, 2011 #51 Share Posted June 20, 2011 It should be a privilege. Don't have a job? Don't have a house? Don't have the finances? Then you can't have kids. A privilege granted by whom exactly? Where do I apply to have my application for a physical process approved? How bout this. You can't have kids, but I can, since I have the right to have them. You can be their butler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFO_Monster Posted June 20, 2011 #52 Share Posted June 20, 2011 A privilege granted by whom exactly? Where do I apply to have my application for a physical process approved? How bout this. You can't have kids, but I can, since I have the right to have them. You can be their butler. It should be considered a matter of responsibility. Hence why a person needs to obtain a drivers license before driving a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted June 20, 2011 #53 Share Posted June 20, 2011 As a long time foster parent I can tell you first hand that there are a lot of people that should not be able to have children, they are too angry, too drugged/drunk, have no wish to have the children in the first place, have no clue how to take care of a child, cannot control their own temper or urges... The list goes on. No, not just anyone should be able to have a child; not just anyone can own a car and drive it, so why should children have fewer requirements than operating a vehicle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Snstr Posted June 20, 2011 #54 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) One does not need a driver's license to drive a car, nor does one even need a car. Anyone, granted they have the knowledge that where the wheel points the car goes, and what pedal does what can drive any car, your car perhaps. Fluffybunny, why not let these people's offspring die off then? Why take care of someone elses irresponsibility? It will be inconsequential to society if those unable, or unwilling to care for their offsping are left the way it is. Edited June 20, 2011 by Mr_Snstr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damrod Posted June 20, 2011 #55 Share Posted June 20, 2011 The original question...Yes, just like any other animal. Except we have no natural predators to control our "herd" populations...leaving famine and disease as the most logical and probable means that nature will use to reduce our strain and drain on the environment and resources. Population density IS the problem, not how many people average out per square mile globally...but when you have 7 million people in 100 square miles city..that creates problems. There is another thread in sciences that has already discussed a lot of the yes/no in regards to whether there is overpopulation and what the ramifications are.... if you are interested...here is the link http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=205320&st=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGhost_and_theDarkness Posted June 20, 2011 #56 Share Posted June 20, 2011 The original question...Yes, just like any other animal. Except we have no natural predators to control our "herd" populations...leaving famine and disease as the most logical and probable means that nature will use to reduce our strain and drain on the environment and resources. Population density IS the problem, not how many people average out per square mile globally...but when you have 7 million people in 100 square miles city..that creates problems. There is another thread in sciences that has already discussed a lot of the yes/no in regards to whether there is overpopulation and what the ramifications are.... if you are interested...here is the link http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=205320&st=0 Overpopulation is not necessarily defined by population density. Overcrowding is just one aspect of overpopulation, sustainability is another, much broader, aspect. Overcrowding is a problem, but that problem is outweighed by the issue of populations being sustained, with the sustainability problem reaching to places that would not be considered overcrowded by the common definition. Overpopulation does not depend only on the size or density of the population, but on the ratio of population to available sustainable resources. It also depends on the way resources are used and distributed throughout the population. link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erowin Posted June 21, 2011 #57 Share Posted June 21, 2011 As a long time foster parent I can tell you first hand that there are a lot of people that should not be able to have children, they are too angry, too drugged/drunk, have no wish to have the children in the first place, have no clue how to take care of a child, cannot control their own temper or urges... The list goes on. No, not just anyone should be able to have a child; not just anyone can own a car and drive it, so why should children have fewer requirements than operating a vehicle? Exactly! People should pass a competency test before being allowed to have children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted June 21, 2011 #58 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) @ HH Holmes Dude, China is in better shape then US. What you trying to tell me is fairy tale. Edited June 21, 2011 by the L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.H. Holmes Posted June 21, 2011 Author #59 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) @ HH Holmes Dude, China is in better shape then US. What you trying to tell me is fairy tale. What fairy tale? How do you come to the conclusion that the China is in better shape than the U.S.? They have a larger population, around three times the size of the total U.S. population, and struggling to create jobs for it's many inhabitants. The Yanghtze and Yellow rivers are being dammed and polluted to the point that, in some areas, the lake bed is visible and people get sick from drinking from them. They have their own set of problems, but they are working to figure them out. The "one-child" policy has actually quite significantly reduced their population growth to levels that will allow them to sustain their population in the future. Edited June 21, 2011 by H.H. Holmes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted June 21, 2011 #60 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) What fairy tale? How do you come to the conclusion that the China is in better shape than the U.S.? They have a larger population, around three times the size of the total U.S. population, and struggling to create jobs for it's many inhabitants. The Yanghtze and Yellow rivers are being dammed and polluted to the point that, in some areas, the lake bed is visible and people get sick from drinking from them. They have their own set of problems, but they are working to figure them out. The "one-child" policy has actually quite significantly reduced their population growth to levels that will allow them to sustain their population in the future. Dude I love US but one of four leading countries in the world is China. China economy > US economy. Fairy tale is that people in China dont have basic stuff what you trying to represent here. You said that they are starving. Cmon. Edited June 21, 2011 by the L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted June 21, 2011 #61 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The fact is that there is more than enough resources. If there were...3rd world countries would not suffer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arglebargle Posted June 21, 2011 #62 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Everyone who claims the world is too overpopulated as it is has a duty to shoot themselves in the face imho. Really, we can make room for more people and we can feed them too. Is it a good idea? I don't know about that, but it can be done. And if people are going to whine and cry about lack of space and resources, they should do their bit to clean it up. See how committed they are to this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Snstr Posted June 21, 2011 #63 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Everyone who claims the world is too overpopulated as it is has a duty to shoot themselves in the face imho. Really, we can make room for more people and we can feed them too. Is it a good idea? I don't know about that, but it can be done. And if people are going to whine and cry about lack of space and resources, they should do their bit to clean it up. See how committed they are to this idea. I couldn't agree more. Too much poeple you say? Good, YOU stop reproducing, take yourself out of the gene pool. I'm sure my 12 illegitimate children will find employment for you somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.H. Holmes Posted June 21, 2011 Author #64 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Everyone who claims the world is too overpopulated as it is has a duty to shoot themselves in the face imho. Really, we can make room for more people and we can feed them too. Is it a good idea? I don't know about that, but it can be done. And if people are going to whine and cry about lack of space and resources, they should do their bit to clean it up. See how committed they are to this idea. Geesh, nobody is suggesting euthanization or a "cull" of the human herd. Can we please get this out of the way? It all needs to start with pregnancy with effective birth control (many parts of the developing world don't even have access to the most basic contraception) and family planning. More education for women, so that they have alternatives to being a mother of several children all their lives. Most of the problem is cultural and the roles of women in society need to be changed to value skill, rather than reproductive prowess. To me, voluntary sterilization, through vasectomy, is the way to go. Some parts of India already have an incentive program for men to get the procedure, which is totally reversible, and it has had some success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted June 21, 2011 #65 Share Posted June 21, 2011 It should be a privilege. Don't have a job? Don't have a house? Don't have the finances? Then you can't have kids. Excuse me - am I reading you right in seeing you call for a permit for people to go through puberty now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted June 21, 2011 #66 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Fluffybunny, why not let these people's offspring die off then? Why take care of someone elses irresponsibility? It will be inconsequential to society if those unable, or unwilling to care for their offsping are left the way it is. What a silly response. How does that solve anything? Are you into letting kids die? Perhaps a better way to handle it is to make sure that people are able to take care of children BEFORE they have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted June 21, 2011 #67 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Excuse me - am I reading you right in seeing you call for a permit for people to go through puberty now? I think that people should be able to take care of children before they have them, we can't have a culture that allows multiple women to have multiple kids with multiple dads, and none of them are capable or willing to actually do the job of correctly raising a child. At any given point there are more than half a million kids in foster care in the US and of those kids that do not find homes(either back with their family or by being adopted) they end up being in a horrible position with no one to protect them or fall back on if things in life do not go well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted June 21, 2011 #68 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Chloe...kids are not all about money... Many people on the dole.. who take it easy.. can still provide for their kids ...food - shelter clothing.. the basics.. until they can do better.. But to deny them the chance to love more and raise another child is absurd... Walk a mile in a mothers shoes who would do anything for her child... and tell her she has a choice - get her tubes ties or lose out.. she her reactions... Not to sound rude in any way here but - Come back when you know what it feels like to be a parent and discuss this again sometime... for only those that are parents can truly see how it really feels....I speak from experience... what I mean by that is --> before I had any kids...I thought I could answer most about parenting... but truth is.. I truly didn't hold an understanding ...I used to think - IE miscarriages were not much to get upset about...UNTIL I winded up having more than one... and now I truly see it from a different light I once felt angered and frustrated .. and thought why do babies cry? it was annoying...I was told off by some mothers at work, saying I just didn't understand............a few years later I found out that they were right.. I was ignorant to motherhood ....but hey I thought I knew all I would give anything to have one last child... I have been to hell and back trying... If someone told me get my tubes tied...I would raise hell...it would hurt me to hear that...so this is why I find it absurd to tell any mother this... This just continues to show that you haven't taken into consideration those who have twins or triplets....you think just 2 is generous enough... but having twins or triplets cannot e helped either Chloe... It is so easy to give judgements when you are not a parent... but place yourself in a parents shoes and ask yourself how would you really feel <-- that is hard to do when you have not been there I am with you Geri, I have 3 beautiful children. I would not want anyone telling me that I had to tie my tubes. I have always been able to afford my kids, IMO that is the key point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted June 21, 2011 #69 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I think that people should be able to take care of children before they have them, we can't have a culture that allows multiple women to have multiple kids with multiple dads, and none of them are capable or willing to actually do the job of correctly raising a child. At any given point there are more than half a million kids in foster care in the US and of those kids that do not find homes(either back with their family or by being adopted) they end up being in a horrible position with no one to protect them or fall back on if things in life do not go well. So, exactly how would you force that type of a culture? Perhaps require every child to take drugs to suppress full sexual maturity until they get some sort of permit based on income? Do you actually think that is really a workable suggestion? Do you think having a body that matures according to a natural and inbuilt timetable is some sort of "Privilege" now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Snstr Posted June 21, 2011 #70 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) What a silly response. How does that solve anything? Are you into letting kids die? Perhaps a better way to handle it is to make sure that people are able to take care of children BEFORE they have them. Silly response? That's entireley relative friend. Lets give an example of silly: You claim only certian people should be allowed to reproduce yet work directly in a system that perpetuates this kind of irresponsibility by allowing an out to those who have them and are unable or unwilling to care for them. Who would think twice about putting themselves in a situation of having a child they could not care for if they knew they could simply get others to do so? Ie. thanks for taking care of my 12 illegitimates, it was fun making them Didn't know the word i used was blocked, i apologize. replace with "illegitimates" Edited June 21, 2011 by Mr_Snstr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spark Plug Posted June 21, 2011 #71 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Do human beings have the right to reproduce as much as they want? To have as many offspring as they want without consideration for the consequences that such overbreeding can have on the world, environment, and human civilization? With the world population approaching seven billion, we have to make some drastic decisions to cut back on the rampant overpopulation of many areas. Amid scarce resources, conflicts over basic needs like food and water, sanitation problems, poverty, and human rights abuses can we really afford to keep reproducing at an unregulated rate? Already, China has been forced to adopt a "one child" system that has had some success in reducing it's current and future population, although at the expense of many female children. Places where women are still kept out of the workforce and banned from getting a good education are still averaging several children a woman, since they have no other options but to stay at home and mother children. Plus, children are seen as free labor in many destitute parts of the world by their parents. Why hire farmhands when you can have a dozen or so children to help out for free? Overpopulation seems to hit the poor the hardest, like in sub-saharan Africa, Bangladesh, slums in India, and, of course, many places in the western world where poverty is rampant and education is poor. Should there be an authority that can put limits on human reproduction? Would such an authority have a superior moral position to reduce population and rid the world of unneeded suffering? Sorry if I left alot out, I just thought of this as I was reading an article on the environmental consequences and the feasibility of supporting the world's almost seven billion population. I think people should be limited to 2 children. To have more they need to get a degree or have something about them which means their breeding would benefit the future of society. I also think that familys who have produced criminals or disabled youngsters for 3 or 4 generations shouldnt be allowed children at all. Society comes before the individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regeneratia Posted June 21, 2011 #72 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Reproduction is a genetic right. I had two children, one which lived past child-birth. I am seriously concerned about over-population. But I think the best way to resolve the over-population is to change the way society views the family who has more than two children. No government can nor should tell you how many kids you can have. But a society can indeed ridicule you for having more than two. Edited June 21, 2011 by regeneratia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spark Plug Posted June 21, 2011 #73 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Reproduction is a genetic right. I had two children, one which lived past child-birth. I am seriously concerned about over-population. But I think the best way to resolve the over-population is to change the way society views the family who has more than two children. No government can nor should tell you how many kids you can have. But a society can indeed ridicule you for having more than two. There is no over population its just media hype. The human race seems to be settling for what we currently have instead of over coming problems. This planet is mostly wilderness at the moment and it could easily support 250 billion. Imagine what GM foods could do? Imagine the planet going 100% nuclear power? electric cars? genetic engineering of humans to reduce their calory needs? terraforming technology to counter global warming? making farm scrapers? Every problem we have can be over come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.H. Holmes Posted June 21, 2011 Author #74 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) There is no over population its just media hype. The human race seems to be settling for what we currently have instead of over coming problems. This planet is mostly wilderness at the moment and it could easily support 250 billion.Imagine what GM foods could do? Imagine the planet going 100% nuclear power? electric cars? genetic engineering of humans to reduce their calory needs? terraforming technology to counter global warming? making farm scrapers? Every problem we have can be over come. I am really interested where you got this number from, it flies in the face of everything that I have read. The rest of your post is wishful thinking, we are not guaranteed to have such technologies, nor, if we do develop them, they would be practical to use. Overpopulation is an immediate problem in some countries, not something that can wait for miracle cures to come in another few decades. Edited June 21, 2011 by H.H. Holmes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spark Plug Posted June 21, 2011 #75 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I am really interested where you got this number from, it flies in the face of everything that I have read. The rest of your post is wishful thinking, we are not guaranteed to have such technologies, nor, if we do develop them, they would be practical to use. Overpopulation is an immediate problem in some countries, not something that can wait for miracle cures to come in another few decades. Question what you have read because people are just excepting the idea that the planet is over populated. They were saying the same thing 100 years ago however we invented fertilizer. They were saying the same thing 400 years ago however we invented industry. The story is always the same and if at any point they had halted their progress we would probably find England existing right now with a mere 2 million people living in it. There is little innovation present in the world and very few are pushing the bounderies back. Like I said before every problem we currently have can be overcome. There are no issues the problem is with poor leadership and people settling for what we currently have. The planets entire popualtion can currently fit on the Isle of White. Most the world isnt like England its vast areas of wilderness. Canada, US, Brazil, Russia, Africa, Austrailia, Eastern Europe all have few people living in them per sqaure kilometre. There is room for a lot more however we will need to let go of oil and find an alternative fuel source as that is limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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