Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

"What has the EU done for Us?"


Space Commander Travis
 Share

Recommended Posts

Reports from inside Westminster suggest two Cabinet ministers have been persuaded that the UK would be better off by cutting its links with Brussels.

http://www.dailyfinance.co.uk/2011/06/30/what-has-the-eu-ever-done-for-us/

Just Tory euroskeptics jumping on the bandwagon set in motion by the Euro difficulties, or a question that ought to be considered seriously and unemotionally?

Or is it academic, since the EU may collapse in on itself in any case if the Euro collapses?

You decide. :unsure2:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 129
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Space Commander Travis

    16

  • stevewinn

    21

  • questionmark

    27

I think we should leave the EU. We are a country of about 62 million people and don't need unelected foreigners in a foreign capital city ruling us. Britain should be run by elected British MPs in Westminster and by nobody else.

It's time to leave the EU.

Edited by Blackwhite
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we should leave the EU. We are a country of about 62 million people and don't need unelected foreigners in a foreign capital city ruling us. Britain should be run by elected British MPs in Westminster and by nobody else.

It's time to leave the EU.

I think the EU agrees.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the EU agrees.

Is that the EU as a political entity, or all the people in Europe who hate the whining Brits?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is that the EU as a political entity, or all the people in Europe who hate the whining Brits?

I doubt nobody wastes any time in Europe to hate Brits. And slowly people are starting to agree on the fact that if the Brits, in their majority, do not want to be in the EU they should not be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leave it and instead concentrate on the commonwealth. We have massive potential in the former empire. India, Cananda we could create the most powerful trading bloc in the world. Europe is just a money pit filled with too many differing opinions and liabilties.What has Europe ever done for Britian? We on the other hand have saved their asses a number of times from tyrants and we got no thanks for it, Napolean, Hitler etc...I say Commonwealth all the way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is that the EU as a political entity, or all the people in Europe who hate the whining Brits?

I think those "whining Brits" have been proven right about the Euro.

And I suspect that a majority of people in all EU nations want out of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doubt nobody wastes any time in Europe to hate Brits. And slowly people are starting to agree on the fact that if the Brits, in their majority, do not want to be in the EU they should not be.

Do you, though, think that the EU has a viable future? Leaving stereotyping about which country hates which and so on out of it, do you see a viable future for the EU, with or without the Euro? if the Euro does collapse, could the EU carry on by going back to the old currencies, or is it so bound up with the Euro that if that goes, the whole lot will collapse? Does the EU serve the interests of the peoples of its member states, or is it an attempt to create a superpower to rival the US and China?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you, though, think that the EU has a viable future? Leaving stereotyping about which country hates which and so on out of it, do you see a viable future for the EU, with or without the Euro? if the Euro does collapse, could the EU carry on by going back to the old currencies, or is it so bound up with the Euro that if that goes, the whole lot will collapse? Does the EU serve the interests of the peoples of its member states, or is it an attempt to create a superpower to rival the US and China?

That is the wishful thinking of those who want to see the Union disappear in the hope that they can reinstaurate their own ancient glory by it. The union will not go away. Economically it is way too important for all countries (including Britain) in it, to the point that it is the number one economy in the world at this point... despite little hiccups like Greece.

In the next ten years the rule will be: You lead, you follow or you get out of the way. And if Britain wants to get out of the way the only reaction will be that they wave their hankies goodbye.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is the wishful thinking of those who want to see the Union disappear in the hope that they can reinstaurate their own ancient glory by it. The union will not go away. Economically it is way too important for all countries (including Britain) in it, to the point that it is the number one economy in the world at this point... despite little hiccups like Greece.

In the next ten years the rule will be: You lead, you follow or you get out of the way. And if Britain wants to get out of the way the only reaction will be that they wave their hankies goodbye.

is that really what you think? Do you really think that if anyone is not certain of the wisdom of the EU and/or the Euro, it's just out of a Little Englander (or Little Deutschlander or whoever) mentality, who is just against it on grounds of xenophobia? Is that really the only reason that anyone could possibly have doubts about it? Do you think that the Euro has a long term future, and is the long term future of the EU dependent on it? What would happen if the Euro did collapse? And is any protest against the moneymen and the sheer inhumanity of the system (because surely you don't believe that those in charge of the European project are bothered in the slightest about the average person in the street) just going to be brushed aside as "little hiccups"? And is that going to be the response to anyone who does have doubts about the European project, then? "Get out of the way"? "You're either for us or against us, but whatever you do, you mustn't have any doubts or questions"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

is that really what you think? Do you really think that if anyone is not certain of the wisdom of the EU and/or the Euro, it's just out of a Little Englander (or Little Deutschlander or whoever) mentality, who is just against it on grounds of xenophobia? Is that really the only reason that anyone could possibly have doubts about it? Do you think that the Euro has a long term future, and is the long term future of the EU dependent on it? What would happen if the Euro did collapse? And is any protest against the moneymen and the sheer inhumanity of the system (because surely you don't believe that those in charge of the European project are bothered in the slightest about the average person in the street) just going to be brushed aside as "little hiccups"? And is that going to be the response to anyone who does have doubts about the European project, then? "Get out of the way"? "You're either for us or against us, but whatever you do, you mustn't have any doubts or questions"?

I have doubts and questions, and to answer those doubts and questions there is a parliament in Strasbourg elected by the citizens of the EU, without which they can decide in Brussels whatever they want, it will not fly.

Now, if the people you voted for are there because they are "against it" and not contributing anything useful that is hardly the fault of the EU or Brussels or whoever.

And yes, The Euro has a great future, maybe it will be called something else then but it will not go away unless replaced by something bigger, just as the German Mark did not go away until displaced by something bigger. And at the time its predecessor was introduced it (the Reichsmark) was a construct of 34 independent states with similar problems the Euro is having now.

Edited by questionmark
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you, though, think that the EU has a viable future?

No.

Does the EU serve the interests of the peoples of its member states

No, definitely not.

is it an attempt to create a superpower to rival the US and China?

It's Germany trying to dominate European the way that it failed to dominate Europe using military invasion not too long ago. France is its poodle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have doubts and questions, and to answer those doubts and questions there is a parliament in Strasbourg elected by the citizens of the EU, without which they can decide in Brussels whatever they want, it will not fly.

really? You have faith in democracy, still? My heavens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

really? You have faith in democracy, still? My heavens.

If you don't, may I suggest Cuba or Daffies Libya as your future residence?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think those "whining Brits" have been proven right about the Euro.

And I suspect that a majority of people in all EU nations want out of it.

Probably 'vast majority' is more like it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you don't, may I suggest Cuba or Daffies Libya as your future residence?

Ah, the old "if you don't like it, go and live in <totalitarian state of your choice>" argument. An argument much used by the American Right, of course, whenever anyone voiced any discontent with G.W. Bush. An argument which basically says "you're not allowed to complain about anything, either put up with it and trust that our leaders know what's best for us, or get out".

Anyway, that's not what I was asking; what I was asking was do you think that what we live in in the west (as a whole, not just the EU) is even remotely democratic? What conceivable difference would it possibly make voting for Euro-MPs from one party or the other? Any voice they may have is very, very limited, and that's if they have any interest in giving a voice to their constituents at all, which is a big assumption, since the European Parliament tends, on the whole, to be somewhere people go when they no longer have any influence in their own countries. Do you honestly think that the European Parliament is anywhere near a manageable enough size for the people to have any voice at all? Or is that voice, if it expresses any discontent, just to be brushed aside with "if you don't like it, go and live in <totalitarian state of your choice>"? And if the voice of discontent is brushed aside, can it then be assumed that "the people are happy and content, because I can't hear anyone complaining" ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, the old "if you don't like it, go and live in <totalitarian state of your choice>" argument. An argument much used by the American Right, of course, whenever anyone voiced any discontent with G.W. Bush. An argument which basically says "you're not allowed to complain about anything, either put up with it and trust that our leaders know what's best for us, or get out".

Anyway, that's not what I was asking; what I was asking was do you think that what we live in in the west (as a whole, not just the EU) is even remotely democratic? What conceivable difference would it possibly make voting for Euro-MPs from one party or the other? Any voice they may have is very, very limited, and that's if they have any interest in giving a voice to their constituents at all, which is a big assumption, since the European Parliament tends, on the whole, to be somewhere people go when they no longer have any influence in their own countries. Do you honestly think that the European Parliament is anywhere near a manageable enough size for the people to have any voice at all? Or is that voice, if it expresses any discontent, just to be brushed aside with "if you don't like it, go and live in <totalitarian state of your choice>"? And if the voice of discontent is brushed aside, can it then be assumed that "the people are happy and content, because I can't hear anyone complaining" ?

Yes, a bit of a red herring thrown in there by QM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, the old "if you don't like it, go and live in <totalitarian state of your choice>" argument. An argument much used by the American Right, of course, whenever anyone voiced any discontent with G.W. Bush. An argument which basically says "you're not allowed to complain about anything, either put up with it and trust that our leaders know what's best for us, or get out".

Anyway, that's not what I was asking; what I was asking was do you think that what we live in in the west (as a whole, not just the EU) is even remotely democratic? What conceivable difference would it possibly make voting for Euro-MPs from one party or the other? Any voice they may have is very, very limited, and that's if they have any interest in giving a voice to their constituents at all, which is a big assumption, since the European Parliament tends, on the whole, to be somewhere people go when they no longer have any influence in their own countries. Do you honestly think that the European Parliament is anywhere near a manageable enough size for the people to have any voice at all? Or is that voice, if it expresses any discontent, just to be brushed aside with "if you don't like it, go and live in <totalitarian state of your choice>"? And if the voice of discontent is brushed aside, can it then be assumed that "the people are happy and content, because I can't hear anyone complaining" ?

You are able to complain because you live in a democracy 747 evidently does not believe in and insist that the rest of us don't believe either because it is .... (fill in as needed).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eh? sorry, not sure I got your point. Who's insisting that the rest of us don't believe in either? I keep asking, but as yet you haven't answered the question, do you believe that the EU is democratic, and do you believe that the voice of the individual people have any say in what it does?

I'll just leave it with you for now. Have a nice evening, everybody. ^_^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eh? sorry, not sure I got your point. Who's insisting that the rest of us don't believe in either? I keep asking, but as yet you haven't answered the question, do you believe that the EU is democratic, and do you believe that the voice of the individual people have any say in what it does?

I'll just leave it with you for now. Have a nice evening, everybody. ^_^

Only somebody ignorant of the legislative within the EU can say something like that.

There are 2 democratically legitimized institutions, the parliament and the council (consistent of the government elected of each individual country). Those two create the third, the commission, members proposed by the council and confirmed by the elected representatives, the parliament. Without the confirmation of the parliament the other two institutions can decide at best is when they have a recess to eat or to go to the loo.

What is not democratic about that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only somebody ignorant of the legislative within the EU can say something like that.

There are 2 democratically legitimized institutions, the parliament and the council (consistent of the government elected of each individual country). Those two create the third, the commission, members proposed by the council and confirmed by the elected representatives, the parliament. Without the confirmation of the parliament the other two institutions can decide at best is when they have a recess to eat or to go to the loo.

What is not democratic about that?

And all that without any reference to the will of the people. The ultimate quango.

Notice your phrase 'democratically legitimized' in place of 'democratically elected'....which we all know it wasn't.

Here's the clue :-

Dictionary definition ...democracy

–noun, plural -cies.

1.

government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And all that without any reference to the will of the people. The ultimate quango.

Notice your phrase 'democratically legitimized' in place of 'democratically elected'....which we all know it wasn't.

Here's the clue :-

Dictionary definition ...democracy

–noun, plural -cies.

1.

government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

Do you get to freely elect the executive in Great Britain?

No, you don't. The party with most votes designates them and they are put before parliament for a vote, which they win because the party with the most votes has designated them.

The European system is different because the people to designate the executive first have to be elected and appointed in their respective countries, then the parliament elected by all Europeans have to approve them. The majority in the European parliament does, as a rule, not reflect the majorities in the respective countries' governments. So, the democratic participation in appointing the Commission is much higher than the appointment of the British government.

I don't see the problem here...unless of course, as remarked above, people who do not represent the people get elected because "they hate the EU". A suspicion I have longer because from some countries there are people in Strasbourg that do not have a chance of getting in through the servants' entrance in their national parliaments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Q, you seem to be the biggest fan of the EU. experiment i've ever come across....hang on a minute....you don't work for them do you?.. oh listen to me, what am i saying..we all do don't we. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Q, you seem to be the biggest fan of the EU. experiment i've ever come across....hang on a minute....you don't work for them do you?.. oh listen to me, what am i saying..we all do don't we. :rolleyes:

I don't, but the EU and a stronger Union is the only chance Europe has if it does not want to end as the ar$hole of the world. Something everybody with a little brain should realize.

Europe either hangs together or will be hanged individually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leave it and instead concentrate on the commonwealth. We have massive potential in the former empire. India, Cananda we could create the most powerful trading bloc in the world. Europe is just a money pit filled with too many differing opinions and liabilties.What has Europe ever done for Britian? We on the other hand have saved their asses a number of times from tyrants and we got no thanks for it, Napolean, Hitler etc...I say Commonwealth all the way.

I agree. Britain has more in common with the Commonwealth nations such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand and India than it does with EU countries.

And those Commonwealth nations are Britain's closest allies. Compare that with the likes of France and Germany, countries Britain can never rely on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.