"What has the EU done for Us?"

[stevewinn]

[Guest]

If it wasn't for the EU my country (Ireland) would still be running around on Donkeys up to our necks in toxic waste and **** and run by the Catholic church to boot.

The EU has enacted some of the most progressive environmental and human rights legislation in the world and for that every citizen should be grateful.

Unfortunately they introduced a Federal currency without a Federal government to make it work and we are all suffering the consequences as we speak.

The EU will not go away, and personally on the balance of evidence - I think that is a reasonably good thing.

Its a world of Big aggressive Sharks and I wouldn't like to be a little Island floating on the sea by myself.

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

If it wasn't for the EU my country (Ireland) would still be running around on Donkeys up to our necks in toxic waste and **** and run by the Catholic church to boot.

The EU has enacted some of the most progressive environmental and human rights legislation in the world and for that every citizen should be grateful.

Unfortunately they introduced a Federal currency without a Federal government to make it work and we are all suffering the consequences as we speak.

The EU will not go away, and personally on the balance of evidence - I think that is a reasonably good thing.

Its a world of Big aggressive Sharks and I wouldn't like to be a little Island floating on the sea by myself.

Br Cornelius

marvellous, what a reply. you really are a twentyfour carrot plonker. i use to think you had something about yourself. but bloody hell. words cannot describe.

[Guest]

marvellous, what a reply. you really are a twentyfour carrot plonker. i use to think you had something about yourself. but bloody hell. words cannot describe.

Everything I said there was true.

Ireland only introduced effective sewage treatment in the last decade due to EU legislation.

Ireland was using uncontained landfill until it was forced to do otherwise by EU legislation.

Ireland was systematically dumping sewage and industrial waste into its river system until EU legislation stopped them.

Ireland built most of its road infrastructure with the help of the EU.

The current financial crisis was allowed by the Euro fiasco, but our domestic politicians could have and should have prevented it from happening. Its was their corruption which encouraged them to take advantage of the intrinsic flaws in the EURO.

Membership of the EU has come with benefits and obligations for Ireland - but overall it has been beneficial for the citizens who have been saved (at least partly) from the worst excesses of an endemically corrupt political class.

Br Cornelius

Edited July 1, 2011 by Guest

[stevewinn]

Everything I said there was true.

Ireland only introduced effective sewage treatment in the last decade due to EU legislation.

Ireland was using uncontained landfill until it was forced to do otherwise by EU legislation.

Ireland built most of its road infrastructure with the help of the EU.

Membership of the EU has come with benefits and obligations for Ireland - but overall it has been beneficial for the citizens who have been saved (at least partly) from the worst excesses of an endemically corrupt political class.

Br Cornelius

That is because instead of staying put you were exporting your population all over the world as cheap labour building everyones infrastructure but your own.

the only reason you got the sewage and road infrastructure is because in the EU there were more stupid poorer people in europe willing to do the work, getting paid peanuts - doing what the irish did years before the EU existed. Ireland is Chock-a-block with eastern Europeans. cheap modern day slaves. But then again the Irish never really had a sense of belonging. so its no surprise you yourself don't have any pride in your nation.

[Guest]

That is because instead of staying put you were exporting your population all over the world as cheap labour building everyones infrastructure but your own.

the only reason you got the sewage and road infrastructure is because in the EU there were more stupid poorer people in europe willing to do the work, getting paid peanuts - doing what the irish did years before the EU existed. Ireland is Chock-a-block with eastern Europeans. cheap modern day slaves. But then again the Irish never really had a sense of belonging. so its no surprise you yourself don't have any pride in your nation.

How appalling misinformed of you.

All the wealthy countries (including Britain) encouraged Eastern Europeans to come and do their Meanial jobs, and generally the money went back to bolster their own home economy. Most have now returned because the growth encouraged in their own countries by the EU means they are better off at home. Such is the advantage of a unified trading zone.

Ireland picked it self up from 400yrs of British exploitation and built a nation from the scraps which were left behind when they were kicked out on their arses. Unfortunately Ireland is very tribal and they don't do national politics very well. Ireland has been one of the most resource poor countries in Europe and is it any surprise that they have struggled to pick themself up from a brutal colonial master. Unfortunately for most of its history the only option was to do exactly what the Polish have done in the last decade - work abroad and send the money home.

Quite the nasty xenophobe you are Steve.

Br Cornelius

[zebra99]

I have doubts and questions, and to answer those doubts and questions there is a parliament in Strasbourg elected by the citizens of the EU, without which they can decide in Brussels whatever they want, it will not fly.

I doubt that one in a hundred British citizens polled could name their MEP...Democracy?...yeah right.

[questionmark]

That is because instead of staying put you were exporting your population all over the world as cheap labour building everyones infrastructure but your own.

the only reason you got the sewage and road infrastructure is because in the EU there were more stupid poorer people in europe willing to do the work, getting paid peanuts - doing what the irish did years before the EU existed. Ireland is Chock-a-block with eastern Europeans. cheap modern day slaves. But then again the Irish never really had a sense of belonging. so its no surprise you yourself don't have any pride in your nation.

The reason they got sewage and roads was because they could benefit from the deprived regions program (Start 1 and Start 2 ) from the EU, as every poor region in Europe. It was not the pauper's labor (in fact during both programs more Irish emigrants came back to Ireland than at any other time in history) it was the rich's money that enabled that. And no Farage propaganda is going to take that away.

[questionmark]

I doubt that one in a hundred British citizens polled could name their MEP...Democracy?...yeah right.

It is not the fault of democracy that people are uninformed and uninterested, but good democratic practice to also represent those.

If you cannot name you MEP that is certainly not the fault of the EU. You should try to find that closer to home. Hint a good look in the mirror will show you the faulty party.

[stevewinn]

How appalling misinformed of you.

All the wealthy countries (including Britain) encouraged Eastern Europeans to come and do their Meanial jobs, and generally the money went back to bolster their own home economy. Most have now returned because the growth encouraged in their own countries by the EU means they are better off at home. Such is the advantage of a unified trading zone.

Ireland picked it self up from 400yrs of British exploitation and built a nation from the scraps which were left behind when they were kicked out on their arses. Unfortunately Ireland is very tribal and they don't do national politics very well. Ireland has been one of the most resource poor countries in Europe and is it any surprise that they have struggled to pick themself up from a brutal colonial master. Unfortunately for most of its history the only option was to do exactly what the Polish have done in the last decade - work abroad and send the money home.

Quite the nasty xenophobe you are Steve.

Br Cornelius

not misinformed at all. in fact spot on, on every point. but as you described your own country pre-EU as a despot the EU is perfect for Ireland. its perfect for all the other lesser countries too. who throughout history have been nothing more than a name on a map. and still to this day offer nothing. its no wonder the EU finds itself in a complete economic mess.

xenophobe love it. said with such conviction, by a man with no conviction.

[stevewinn]

The reason they got sewage and roads was because they could benefit from the deprived regions program (Start 1 and Start 2 ) from the EU, as every poor region in Europe. It was not the pauper's labor (in fact during both programs more Irish emigrants came back to Ireland than at any other time in history) it was the rich's money that enabled that. And no Farage propaganda is going to take that away.

Yes. bringing mickey mouse and donald duck countries up to some sort of standard. prmise them the enlightenment give the people their sewage and roads small token - slap a EU sticker on it package it up and those people will be forever grateful to the EU - subservient for life.

[Stardrive]

I think those "whining Brits" have been proven right about the Euro.

The smartest thing those "whining brits" did was not giving up the BPS for the Euro. Trade down AND be at Frank and Gerry's mercy?. Oh I'm sure they'd love to spend your money and you know they'd spend it wisely. In other words, might as well get out now while the getting is good.

stevewinn, I'm of Irish and English decent, your posts triggered a rather strange internal battle.

[stevewinn]

The smartest thing those "whining brits" did was not giving up the BPS for the Euro. Trade down AND be at Frank and Gerry's mercy?. Oh I'm sure they'd love to spend your money and you know they'd spend it wisely. In other words, might as well get out now while the getting is good.

stevewinn, I'm of Irish and English decent, your posts triggered a rather strange internal battle.

i know - am the same. have to be, being a scouser.

[questionmark]

Yes. bringing mickey mouse and donald duck countries up to some sort of standard. prmise them the enlightenment give the people their sewage and roads small token - slap a EU sticker on it package it up and those people will be forever grateful to the EU - subservient for life.

That post shows your xenophobia stronger than I have seen before. I hope you were jesting. But somehow I have the feeling that you are dead serious.

[Stardrive]

Here's what I see.

Everything I said there was true.

Ireland only introduced effective sewage treatment in the last decade due to EU legislation.

The only reason that would happen is because Ireland lacked the initiative to do it themselves.

Ireland was using uncontained landfill until it was forced to do otherwise by EU legislation.

The only reason that would happen is because Ireland lacked the initiative to do it themselves.

Ireland was systematically dumping sewage and industrial waste into its river system until EU legislation stopped them.

Ireland built most of its road infrastructure with the help of the EU.

Repeats self once again. Looks like my strange internal battle has a winner afterall.

[questionmark]

Here's what I see.

The only reason that would happen is because Ireland lacked the initiative to do it themselves.

Wrong, the reason was the lack of money. That is why all those railroads in the US were built by Irish and cheap labor used to come to American shores from there until somebody supplied the means to develop the country instead of exploiting the Irish.

[stevewinn]

That post shows your xenophobia stronger than I have seen before. I hope you were jesting. But somehow I have the feeling that you are dead serious.

in what context are you using the word? if as i suspect as hateful to foreigners no, not at all what do i have to fear or hate. but lets speak openly and honestly. pick whichever words you like, we all know who the mickey mouse and donald duck countries of europe are. could write the names buit would take forever that many of them, simply putting lesser and walt disney covers them quite apt.

we just let them plod along being who they are. we know their there but don't take to much notice, giving them encouragement by giving them money through the EU or IMF. we invite them to the party but they don't sit at the table. throw scraps to them on the floor, their happy in this role. because now and again we build them things, like roads ect.. don't blame me blame the EU because after all this is whats happening, but ssshhhh.

[Space Commander Travis]

I don't, but the EU and a stronger Union is the only chance Europe has if it does not want to end as the ar$hole of the world. Something everybody with a little brain should realize.

Europe either hangs together or will be hanged individually.

I think that's basically what it comes down to. Europe wants to be a Superpower again, to challenge the economic Might of (currently, i suppose) the U.S. and China. And of course, it also wants to display its military might, hence the Libyan adventure. The only trouble is, the only way it would be possible to get however may it is now individual governments to all co-operate in anything would be to either keep them on a very tight economic leash (have control over their individual finances, essentially - say what a government should or shouldn't do with its own finances) or to centralise control so that each government has less and less say in anything.

Now, how many others can we think of off the top of our head who had similar ambitions.... ?

[Space Commander Travis]

It is not the fault of democracy that people are uninformed and uninterested, but good democratic practice to also represent those.

If you cannot name you MEP that is certainly not the fault of the EU. You should try to find that closer to home. Hint a good look in the mirror will show you the faulty party.

it's the fault of democracy that it doesn't work. The flaws with democracy are probably a topic for another discussion, but for now it'll do to say that if one cannot name one's MEP the reason is probably that said MEP has absolutely no power and no influence, so no one knows who they are, not because of narrow minded xenophobia.

[questionmark]

it's the fault of democracy that it doesn't work. The flaws with democracy are probably a topic for another discussion, but for now it'll do to say that if one cannot name one's MEP the reason is probably that said MEP has absolutely no power and no influence, so no one knows who they are, not because of narrow minded xenophobia.

Every MEP has the same power and influence. Collectively those that are "against" naturally have less power because they are less. So, if you want influence make sure that a MEP knows that you voted for him and that you expect him to perform. If you don't care about him and are going to vote for him anyway, why should he care about you?

And you mean to tell me that you went to vote and just made your cross by the 5 piggy method? Or did you not go to vote for the EU parliament?

[questionmark]

I think that's basically what it comes down to. Europe wants to be a Superpower again, to challenge the economic Might of (currently, i suppose) the U.S. and China. And of course, it also wants to display its military might, hence the Libyan adventure. The only trouble is, the only way it would be possible to get however may it is now individual governments to all co-operate in anything would be to either keep them on a very tight economic leash (have control over their individual finances, essentially - say what a government should or shouldn't do with its own finances) or to centralise control so that each government has less and less say in anything.

Now, how many others can we think of off the top of our head who had similar ambitions.... ?

Well, if you want to be a Russian or Chinese colony please be our guest. But don't hold it against the rest of Europe if they plan to do something against it.

[Spark Plug]

That post shows your xenophobia stronger than I have seen before. I hope you were jesting. But somehow I have the feeling that you are dead serious.

The dictionary defines xenophobia as a hatred of other cultures not bringing lessor nations upto your level.

The rules for UM also define adding 1+1 to give you 7 as trolling.

[questionmark]

The dictionary defines xenophobia as a hatred of other cultures not bringing lessor nations upto your level.

The rules for UM also define adding 1+1 to give you 7 as trolling.

Thank you for the lecture

[Spark Plug]

I think that's basically what it comes down to. Europe wants to be a Superpower again, to challenge the economic Might of (currently, i suppose) the U.S. and China. And of course, it also wants to display its military might, hence the Libyan adventure. The only trouble is, the only way it would be possible to get however may it is now individual governments to all co-operate in anything would be to either keep them on a very tight economic leash (have control over their individual finances, essentially - say what a government should or shouldn't do with its own finances) or to centralise control so that each government has less and less say in anything.

Now, how many others can we think of off the top of our head who had similar ambitions.... ?

Again? lol

Its never been a superpower its only existed since 1999.

[H.H. Holmes]

Message to the brits:

"Ask not what the EU can do for You, ask what You can do for the EU"

Edited July 1, 2011 by H.H. Holmes