Where did 'the devil' come from?

[Janiel]

Where did 'the devil' come from?

a typo. good became god, evil became devil.

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aha! thats awsome Chico perfect way to explain it

[fireflyxl5]

The following is from the KJV Bible which, IMHO is the best translation we have right now.

I think a lot of Christians don't like the KJV because not only is the language very antiquated and silly sounding, King James was actually a homosexual and a freemason which a lot of Christians do not approve of.

[Been Told]

The following is from the KJV Bible which, IMHO is the best translation we have right now.

I think a lot of Christians don't like the KJV because not only is the language very antiquated and silly sounding, King James was actually a homosexual and a freemason which a lot of Christians do not approve of.

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I think we have no established that not everyone thinks as me on that point. But the other translations say pretty much the same in this case... Why is this the only point that gets commented on?

[fireflyxl5]

If you

assume that Satan does exist from the Bible, then you should

have done some research.

The devil is mentioned in the book of Job, which according to the genealogies is the oldest book in the bible. What are you talking about boy?

[fireflyxl5]

I guess since this is a thread about Christian mythology, it should just be the bible we take the answer from

If some of you guys think Christianity is Mythology then why are you living in the year 2004 Anno Domini, the year of our Lord. Why dont you call it something better?

P.S can anyone mention a non-christian influenced society that anyone here could live in? Can I start with the obvious two- Stalinist Russia and Athens 500BC. Both would be 'Hell' to live through. So can anyone name a non-christian influenced society that you could live in?

[Been Told]

I guess since this is a thread about Christian mythology, it should just be the bible we take the answer from

If some of you guys think Christianity is Mythology then why are you living in the year 2004 Anno Domini, the year of our Lord. Why dont you call it something better?

P.S can anyone mention a non-christian influenced society that anyone here could live in? Can I start with the obvious two- Stalinist Russia and Athens 500BC. Both would be 'Hell' to live through. So can anyone name a non-christian influenced society that you could live in?

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I could name a few Christian influenced societies that I definitely would NOT want to live through.

If you think we live in a Christian influenced society today, I can't see how that can be. If Christianity is about corruption, greed and hypocricy, then yes. But my faith is about other things.

[fireflyxl5]

"Lucifer is the favorite and loved by God, he rebells against God, he gets kicked out"

Very interesting point. Thats how all of us have got away from God. Some of us just haven't faced up to it yet.

[fireflyxl5]

If you think we live in a Christian influenced society today, I can't see how that can be. If Christianity is about corruption, greed and hypocricy, then yes. But my faith is about other things.

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Hi there how are you. Thanks for replying but I asked can you name a society that hasnt been influenced by Christianity that you could live in? Todays society has the 'samaritans' (at least in this country), a maximum working week for children (brought in in this country by a Christian, Lord Shaftsbury, when the athiestic mine owners made young children work 16 hours in the pits), The nHS, and we have a calendar which dates everything anno domini. Therefore it has Christian Influences.

P.S the Cyrenians who take in homeless people are named after Simon of Cyrene from the Bible. How many homeless people do you have living your house? I have 2.

Can you please stop making vague statements about hypocrisy and tell me which society with no Christian influnes you could live in?

[Talon]

If some of you guys think Christianity is Mythology then why are you living in the year 2004 Anno Domini, the year of our Lord. Why dont you call it something better?

Because that what Society goes with What would be the point

P.S can anyone mention a non-christian influenced society that anyone here could live in? Can I start with the obvious two- Stalinist Russia and Athens 500BC. Both would be 'Hell' to live through. So can anyone name a non-christian influenced society that you could live in? 

Japan

Anyway, anyway, the many of the USSR states were Christian for a long time before Stalin outlawed, so they were influnced by it

As for Athens 500 BC, I pick all of the world 500 BC ... I mean.... no toilets no technology arg! Anyway, why are you even talking about the world 2500 years ago, of course nobody would want to live in it

Speaking of one's we wouldn't want to live in. Any during the witch trials and Spain under the Inquasition. And all those fascist states like Mussolini's Italy, Franco's Spain, Hitler's Germany etc

Todays society has the 'samaritans' (at least in this country), a maximum working week for children (brought in in this country by a Christian, Lord Shaftsbury, when the athiestic mine owners made young children work 16 hours in the pits), The nHS, and we have a calendar which dates everything anno domini. Therefore it has Christian Influences. The Left is an athiest ideology because it removes social boundaries and elitists imposed and supported by the church.

....

Actually you'll find all major advances are made by left-wingist such as socialists and trade-union getting up and rioting or making decades or protesting to get stuff changed, no because of the leaderships Christian good-will.

Plus, America, the most Christian country in the world, was always about 80 years behind Europe, which is now increasingly Athiest, in cases of Welfare and workers rights.

Edited September 15, 2004 by Talon S.

[fireflyxl5]

If some of you guys think Christianity is Mythology then why are you living in the year 2004 Anno Domini, the year of our Lord. Why dont you call it something better?

Because that what Society goes with What would be the point

P.S can anyone mention a non-christian influenced society that anyone here could live in? Can I start with the obvious two- Stalinist Russia and Athens 500BC. Both would be 'Hell' to live through. So can anyone name a non-christian influenced society that you could live in? 

Japan

Anyway, anyway, the many of the USSR states were Christian for a long time before Stalin outlawed, so they were influnced by it

As for Athens 500 BC, I pick all of the world 500 BC ... I mean.... no toilets no technology arg! Anyway, why are you even talking about the world 2500 years ago, of course nobody would want to live in it

Speaking of one's we wouldn't want to live in. Any during the witch trials and Spain under the Inquasition. And all those fascist states like Mussolini's Italy, Franco's Spain, Hitler's Germany etc

Todays society has the 'samaritans' (at least in this country), a maximum working week for children (brought in in this country by a Christian, Lord Shaftsbury, when the athiestic mine owners made young children work 16 hours in the pits), The nHS, and we have a calendar which dates everything anno domini. Therefore it has Christian Influences. The Left is an athiest ideology because it removes social boundaries and elitists imposed and supported by the church.

....

Actually you'll find all major advances are made by left-wingist such as socialists and trade-union getting up and rioting or making decades or protesting to get stuff changed, no because of the leaderships Christian good-will.

Plus, America, the most Christian country in the world, was always about 80 years behind Europe, which is now increasingly Athiest, in cases of Welfare and workers rights.

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Hi there,

If you changed the calendar system to relfect your beliefs you might be able to say that you werent living in a country that was influenced by Christianity. if you dont like Christianity move to a country that hasnt been influenced by it- you wont look like a hypocrite. Japan would be an option to be sure, especially after what they did to our boys in WW2- no chance of them being Christian. Tell me what it was like when you come back.

P.S America is the most Christian country in the world? can you please take the masonic symbol off your money then!

P.P.S Ever heard of James Keir Hardie? Founded the Labour party because of his belief that Jesus is a socialist?

[beowulf]

If some of you guys think Christianity is Mythology then why are you living in the year 2004 Anno Domini, the year of our Lord. Why dont you call it something better?

Historians and Archaeologists have used the term CE and BCE for quite some time now (that means Current Era and Before Current Era).

if you dont like Christianity move to a country that hasnt been influenced by it- you wont look like a hypocrite

Why should I move when my ancestors were here long before yours! As for hypocrites, your "loving Xian ancestors" took our land and tried to commit genocide on us - how's that for hypocritical actions!

[fireflyxl5]

"Historians and Archaeologists have used the term CE and BCE for quite some time now (that means Current Era and Before Current Era)."

my point exactly- if you dont believe it change it

if you dont like Christianity move to a country that hasnt been influenced by it- you wont look like a hypocrite

"Why should I move when my ancestors were here long before yours! As for hypocrites, your "loving Xian ancestors" took our land and tried to commit genocide on us - how's that for hypocritical actions! "

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No love lost there Beowulf, my ancestors were thrown off their Highland farm by the factors backed up by church of scotland ministers. In the winter too, many died. If you have a chance read a book on it- the Highland Clearances.

And one of my ancestors was thrown out of ireland by the proddies.

My only point is if you dont like Christianity, keep away from it and its values. oil and water dont mix.

[Been Told]

Hi there how are you. Thanks for replying but I asked can you name a society that hasnt been influenced by Christianity that you could live in?  Todays society has the 'samaritans' (at least in this country), a maximum working week for children (brought in in this country by a Christian, Lord Shaftsbury, when the athiestic mine owners made young children work 16 hours in the pits), The nHS, and we have a calendar which dates everything anno domini.  Therefore it has Christian Influences.

If that is the sort of thing you mean, that's alright. I look at the whole picture though. To my the current US administration is a perfect example of a so-called Christian influenced society.

The point I was trying to make is that today most of society is too much caught up in capitalism to really bother about Christian values. Sure our laws and rules are based at least partially on Christian values, but then it's not about the laws but what you do with them.

I guess I'm just very cynical with Christianity and todays governments.

P.S the Cyrenians who take in homeless people are named after Simon of Cyrene from the Bible.  How many homeless people do you have living your house? I have 2.

That's really good. Most people don't bother with the homeless.

I was homeless for a while but managed to get myself up again with the help of wonderful people (who by the way were not Christians, just really good people). Currently I'm living in a bed-sit with a room that serves as bedroom, livingroom, and kitchen. I share my bath with the other inhabitants of the house. It's not any sort of homeless scheme, just a normal bedsit. In fact I'm moving next month, into my own flat.

Can you please stop making vague statements about hypocrisy and tell me which society with no Christian influnes you could live in?

Forgive me if I was vague. I'm just very cynical these days, and the one thing that sort of peeps me off is when people seem to say that if you're a good person, that's because your values are based on Christianity.

The (more or less) Christian based countries have been at the forefront of well-to-do countries of the world. The exception is Japan. A lot of that is due to exploiting countries that are now 3rd world countries. So a lot of the "goodness" we can do now, like charities and stuff has been worked up on the back of the poor and the defenseless. Then we withdrew from their countries when we'd finished using them and left chaos and destruction.

My point was not that I can imagine a non-Christian country where I could live. I have grown up in a Christian-based family and my values and beliefs are at least mildly Christian. We did live in a non-Christian era of a mildly Christian country. Early eighties Soviet Union.

We were never rich but it was good, apart from the fact that we had German ancestors and due to the communists being in power a lot of Germans were taunted, abused and held back career-wise. They called us Nazis, because the teachers taught them that a German is a Nazi and vice-versa lol.

Anyway, I'm chattering away...

I live in Scotland, as you. And out of all the countries I've ever seen, I'd say this is definitely the best. We could do more for homeless people, but that is so everywhere. Fact is we have some of the nicest people here and some of the warmest. Sure there's neds and all that, but so what.

[beowulf]

My only point is if you dont like Christianity, keep away from it and its values. oil and water dont mix

Kinda hard to do that when they are constantly badgering society to accept their beliefs over all other belief systems (think 10 commandments in the Alabama Court Building). As for values, historically Xianity (Christianity to you) has quashed the ideas of enlightened minds that had conceived of freedom and emancipation (think the "Pagan" schools of philosophy that the church burned after butchering the teachers and students); endorsed slavery (all the way up to 1860 in the USA); upheld tyranny (think divine right to rule - all the way up to the Bolshevik revolution); subjugated women (an ongoing action in many of the fundalmentalist sects) and promised pie in the sky to the oppressed in compensation to the oppressed provided that they suffer silently on earth.

[fireflyxl5]

Hey man!

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh I wasnt meaning to be. I agree pretty much with all that you said there.

"I'm just very cynical these days, and the one thing that sort of peeps me off is when people seem to say that if you're a good person, that's because your values are based on Christianity"

Thats true and religion can give a lot of people a very mean outlook. I think that maybe Christianity is not designed to be an institutional religion but more of a personal/small group thing.

"Then we withdrew from their countries when we'd finished using them and left chaos and destruction"

Ever heard the quote from Desmond Tutu the South African? It goes somehting like this: "When the whites first came, they had the bibles and we had the land, now they have the land and we have the bibles"

. "To my the current US administration is a perfect example of a so-called Christian influenced society"

This may sound very controversial. I dont think that administration is very Christian. Perhaps an easier way to change Iraq would have been to send literature instead of troops but then they probably want oil. This may sound even more controversial, probably because I dont know a huge deal about it and it will sound like religous snobbery, but does Islam does a lot of good for those people?

"Fact is we have some of the nicest people here and some of the warmest"

Take Care Been Told!

[fireflyxl5]

My only point is if you dont like Christianity, keep away from it and its values. oil and water dont mix

Kinda hard to do that when they are constantly badgering society to accept their beliefs over all other belief systems (think 10 commandments in the Alabama Court Building). As for values, historically Xianity (Christianity to you) has quashed the ideas of enlightened minds that had conceived of freedom and emancipation (think the "Pagan" schools of philosophy that the church burned after butchering the teachers and students); endorsed slavery (all the way up to 1860 in the USA); upheld tyranny (think divine right to rule - all the way up to the Bolshevik revolution); subjugated women (an ongoing action in many of the fundalmentalist sects) and promised pie in the sky to the oppressed in compensation to the oppressed provided that they suffer silently on earth.

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Beowulf thats my point exactly. Athiests shouldnt have to live under Christian rules and Christians shouldnt have to live under Athiests rules. My origianl point is that people who dont like C/A thingies should try not to live with them and be critical but instead dont live with them.

One point though: Divine right to rule- Oliver Cromwell overthrew Charles 1st and the French Hugenots tried to overthrow Louis 14th -the two who liked this theory. Olly and the hugenots were Christian

[Been Told]

Hey man!

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh I wasnt meaning to be.  I agree pretty much with all that you said there. 

Thats true and religion can give a lot of people a very mean outlook.  I think that maybe Christianity is not designed to be an institutional religion but more of a personal/small group thing. 

Exactly... To me, my faith is a very personal thing. I never go to church. I do what some Christians probably would call "fellowship", but it's very informal and can go from God/Bible to all sorts of topics and back...

Ever heard the quote from Desmond Tutu the South African?  It goes somehting like this:  "When the whites first came, they had the bibles and we had the land, now they have the land and we have the bibles"

No, but that one hits it right on the spot.

This may sound very controversial.  I dont think that administration is very Christian.  Perhaps an easier way to change Iraq would have been to send literature instead of troops but then they probably want oil.  This may sound even more controversial, probably because I dont know a huge deal about it and it will sound like religous snobbery, but does Islam does a lot of good for those people

My point exactly. They are not Christian at all in what they do, but they like to talk like they are (note, I am talking about the US government, not the US as a people).

Islam, contrary to what many like to say, is a very peaceloving religion. The problem is they have been supressed for so long... And that goes for Iraq too, they were supressed there as well. What is going on in Iraq now doesn't have much to do with Islam or anything like that. It's really about Westerners coming in and invading the country which most Iraqis (understandably) don't like a lot. Publically the reason was to remove Iraq.

There are people in whose eyes Bush is as bad as Hussein (I am not necesserily one of those people), if they were to invade the US and overthrow the government, I'm sure the US people wouldn't just take it lying down. Of course it couldn't happen because the US have such a strong army, but you know what I'm saying.

I'm not sure in how far the oil is a motivation there, and won't go into it here because it's off topic, but whatever the reason, the US and UK should not have entered Iraq. Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11 that we know, had no WMD that we can find... He was just a thorn in the eye of Bush and his friends (amongst whom I count our PM). Sure Saddam did many bad things, but maybe they should have just tried to help the Iraqis overthrow the government by themselves rather than just invade? What is going on in Iraq is terrible and I have no doubt that the US and UK armies will HAVE to withdraw from there very soon.

Take care

[beowulf]

Beowulf thats my point exactly. Athiests shouldnt have to live under Christian rules and Christians shouldnt have to live under Athiests rules.

A couple of points or so:

(1) Not all people who disbelieve Xianity are Atheists, in fact most aren't, they are simply of other belief systems or Agnostic or (finally) Atheist.

(2) I am not an Atheist, I am a 3rd generation Deist and my daughters are 4th generation Deists. We are actually a lot bigger group than Xians think. As a Deist, I do believe in a Creator but not the monster described in the Old Testament or the Eschatologist of the New Testament.

(3) Xianity is losing members rapidly, someone (Tupac Amaru, I think) posted an article recently showing how the Protestants are "bleeding to death" (membershipwise) and will soon be a minority. Consequently as one of the soon to be in the majority, my suggestion is that all the Xians get out of America and let us have a secular Republic like the Founding Fathers envisioned!

[Been Told]

Consequently as one of the soon to be in the majority, my suggestion is that all the Xians get out of America and let us have a secular Republic like the Founding Fathers envisioned!

Ah yes, nothing like a bit of religious intolerance. You complain that Christians are getting on your nerve and are forcing themselves upon you as an American citizen, and then propose to have them all kicked out of the country of their birth because of their religion. Makes sense to me.

[beowulf]

Why not, they have been attempting to do that to non-Xians for decades! What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander! Why should be the soon-to-be majority leave? (incidentally if your can't recognize the repartee between myself and FFx15, it's your problem!)

[Been Told]

Why not, they have been attempting to do that to non-Xians for decades!  What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander!  Why should be the soon-to-be majority leave?    (incidentally if your can't recognize the repartee between myself and FFx15, it's your problem!)

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What does repartee mean?

For the rest of the post... if that is your opinion then you can't really blame the Christians at all, because in their position you would obviously do the same.

[beowulf]

and truthfully you wouldn't????

[Been Told]

and truthfully you wouldn't????

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Not only would I not, I do not. Most of my friends don't share most of my beliefs. My girlfriend thinks they are absolutly and utterly wrong. I can live very well with people who think and believe different from me. In case you got the impression, I am not a member of any organised religion.

And what does repartee mean, I still don't know?

[Unorthodox Thesis]

Christianity is based on the Bible; but the entire Bible is't

based on christianity. I thought I should say that since there

are a lot of things which the Bible teaches that most chrisitans

ignore. A quick example would be my banner.

[Been Told]

Christianity is based on the Bible; but the entire Bible is't

based on christianity. I thought I should say that since there

are a lot of things which the Bible teaches that most chrisitans

ignore.

That's true.

About your banner... have you discovered something in the Bible about aliens or am I misunderstanding that?