[Merged] Major Blast in OSLO

[Varelse]

The maximum sentence here is 21 years in jail. And our jails are quite cheerful places, it's a bit like a stay at a motel, except you can't leave except with a squad of cops with you. But he's probably gonna be out on parole in about a decade, as most of the people who get sentenced to 21 years do. They tend to get out on good behaviour a lot sooner, unless they try to escape or something like that.

The problem is that everyone know who he is, and chances are pretty good that we'll see vigilante justice when he does come out.

EDIT: the kill count is confirmed at a total of 91 at the moment. That's for both the bomb and the shootings.

He'd surely get the death penalty here, even if he was in a state that banned it, they'd bring it back just for him.

[H.H. Holmes]

Let's be a little wary here, with the eyewitness testimony. Don't forget that they were in the worst possible location for an objective, reasonable, point of view.

That is true, in the midst of all that panic and mayhem it would been hard for anyone to get a clear impression of what was happening. There are many instances of supposed extra/second attackers in mass murders or public assassinations. Like the Virginia Tech shooting and even the Columbine Massacre there were initial reports of extra shooters that were later discredited. However, I find it a little odd that one man with a semi-automatic pistol and a shotgun could kill 80 people alone. They surely must have scattered after the first shots were fired and even if he hit every single target it would of been difficult with the limited ammo capacity of a single pistol to kill that many people. I don't know, I guess it is possible. It just seems like there would of had to have been another shooter to cause that many fatalities.

Edited July 23, 2011 by H.H. Holmes

[aquatus1]

I can easily see the crowd not understanding what was going on for a good 10, 15, even 20 seconds after the shooting began, and for some even longer. Simply put, this was the absolute last place on Earth I would have predicted something like this to occur. But even if everyone scatters, as long as you aren't trying to shoot any one person, killing a lot of people isn't that difficult. Contrary to what Hollywood teaches us, most people don't survive a single bullet.

[squidboy]

The maximum sentence here is 21 years in jail. And our jails are quite cheerful places, it's a bit like a stay at a motel, except you can't leave except with a squad of cops with you. But he's probably gonna be out on parole in about a decade, as most of the people who get sentenced to 21 years do. They tend to get out on good behaviour a lot sooner, unless they try to escape or something like that.

The problem is that everyone know who he is, and chances are pretty good that we'll see vigilante justice when he does come out.

The other prisoners will know who he is as well, and it seems prisoners often dont like anyone who has hurt children(some were as young as 13-14 as far as i heard on danish tv), so he might not come out alive.

Edited July 23, 2011 by squidboy

[HMS Dreadnought]

I never thought when I posted this thread, the deathtoll would be so sad, RIP to all those who have died & thoughts & prayrers to their poor families.

[arglebargle]

Looks like he/they went for a new highscore. I'm sure he'll be put in a jail where they keep rapists and murderers, preferrably immigrants, because we know how much he likes that. Then again I'm kind of against cruel and unusual punishment, except the jails are stuffed with immigrants who've committed those crimes, so it seems legit.

[little_dreamer]

A shooting on a small island with no bridges. No real place to escape. I think he planned it this way. He is a real b******.

Comparisons to the Oklahoma City bombing might be accurate. This man could be Norway's Timothy McVeigh. I don't care what he believes. None of this was necessary.

[libstaK]

What an unfortunate way to be reminded that terrorism can arise in the hearts of people from any nation, belief, culture or creed BUT maybe it is a reminder worth noting just the same.

Sometimes the monsters are real .

[Space Commander Travis]

What an unfortunate way to be reminded that terrorism can arise in the hearts of people from any nation, belief, culture or creed BUT maybe it is a reminder worth noting just the same.

Sometimes the monsters are real .

And perhaps sending in a crack team of assassins to take out the Most Evil Man in the World doesn't actually make the slightest difference, beyond scoring political points, since, just perhaps, not all terrorists are in fact Islamic Extremists, and perhaps the Islamic Extrremists in fact make up a small percentage of the world's quota of nuts.

[questionmark]

And perhaps sending in a crack team of assassins to take out the Most Evil Man in the World doesn't actually make the slightest difference, beyond scoring political points, since, just perhaps, not all terrorists are in fact Islamic Extremists, and perhaps the Islamic Extrremists in fact make up a small percentage of the world's quota of nuts.

Oh, oh...you just said a truth that a certain movement does not want to hear.... so, my I suggest donning a helmet?

INCOMING :w00t:!!

[H.H. Holmes]

Seems like the bomb was of the type that McVeigh used, fertilizer based. He owned and operated a farm from what I have heard, so it is no surprise he could get his hand on 9 tons of fertilizer to make the explosive(s).

My link

[EllJay]

However, I find it a little odd that one man with a semi-automatic pistol and a shotgun could kill 80 people alone. They surely must have scattered after the first shots were fired and even if he hit every single target it would of been difficult with the limited ammo capacity of a single pistol to kill that many people. I don't know, I guess it is possible. It just seems like there would of had to have been another shooter to cause that many fatalities.

He was dressed as a policeman, managed to gather a crowd of kids around him saying he had some information to relate.

He was armed with a fully automatic rifle with a scope on his back and a sidearm.

When they were gathered he said "-Now I'm gonna get you" and open automatic fire.

As mentioned earlier, a person who had no reason what so ever, in any sort of way, to feel threaten or any kind of apprehension, and are inexperienced in any sort of situation, it will take quite a while to comprehend, even if people around you fall down.

To compute the fact that a person dressed as a police, as a protector and authority, suddenly without any reason starts shooting at you, it doesn't make sense.

Then add the machinegun sound, blood, screams, chaos, running, crying etc, I bet many just froze and stood there for a while.

I don't know but, maybe in a country like Israel were they have lived with terror acts for decades on decades people have learnt to be alert and to react faster and would have grappled the situation.

But in Norway, on a peaceful small little island in the midst of summertime. A country who haven't had, almost, anything happen to it since WWII, and this happen.

Its like the devil emerge in paradise and raise hell, literally.

The man was a cold, calculating psycho who took his time.

Utøya is a very small island and no bridges. The killer started out from the only place where there were any boats, so they couldn't run that way.

There were no other security personal on the island, cause why would it.

The psycho took his time and walked calmly across the island and picked them off one by one.

Even as he went along he shouted out to them to come out and not to be afraid.

He even went to the shoreline and used his scope, probably, to pick off those terrified kids who tried to swim to safety at the mainland. They had no chance to avoid him while floating or swimming in the water.

He also had time on his side.

Before the alert came in, and police force gathered to be transported out to the island more than an hour was at his disposal.

Such a small island, packed with kids, nowhere to run, no one to protect them, this sick twisted ***k had a field-day.

When something like this happen you cry havoc, and want this sick twisted maddahfakkah burnt at the stake.

Hanged, drawn and quartered would only satisfy as an appetiser for what this b****** should have.

Then you just think why..why, why the ***k would someone do this to kids???

Resorting to demanding his head on a spike is just letting in to the twisted emotions and thinking that led this man to this action.

He is in holding and are secured, and nothing is gained by changing the way of life, openness, and kindness Norway have.

If it does, this b****** had reached some of his goals.

Dont let him have that satisfaction.

[libstaK]

The maximum sentence here is 21 years in jail. And our jails are quite cheerful places, it's a bit like a stay at a motel, except you can't leave except with a squad of cops with you. But he's probably gonna be out on parole in about a decade, as most of the people who get sentenced to 21 years do. They tend to get out on good behaviour a lot sooner, unless they try to escape or something like that.

The problem is that everyone know who he is, and chances are pretty good that we'll see vigilante justice when he does come out.

EDIT: the kill count is confirmed at a total of 91 at the moment. That's for both the bomb and the shootings.

Ranyhyn, firstly my heart is with you and your countrymen, what a terrible tragedy.

So murder is 21 years - but what about treason? Or acts of war? Surely there would be the stiffest of penalties for attacking the government itself with the bombings? And perhaps the legal construction that it was a direct act of war (albeit by a single person) could be established from the nature of the attacks and the premeditation required to carry them out?

I hope there is a legal means to prevent him from ever seeing anything but a 2 x 4 cell ever again in his life ...

[questionmark]

Ranyhyn, firstly my heart is with you and your countrymen, what a terrible tragedy.

So murder is 21 years - but what about treason? Or acts of war? Surely there would be the stiffest of penalties for attacking the government itself with the bombings? And perhaps the legal construction that it was a direct act of war (albeit by a single person) could be established from the nature of the attacks and the premeditation required to carry them out?

I hope there is a legal means to prevent him from ever seeing anything but a 2 x 4 cell ever again in his life ...

There is, getting him declared mentally incapable and dangerous. In Europe you always know that some day you will get out of jail...but no way to know if you ever get out of a mental institution.

But much more important now is to not commit the McVeigh error: squish the guy before he spat out who else was in on this. Because this is not something that grew on the intellectual feces of one person.

[H.H. Holmes]

Sorry, I just looked at the newer, more up-to-date news items on this massacre.

I was of the impression that the man had a standard issue police sidearm and a shotgun. Now that I know he had a fully automatic weapon it puts the total death toll into a clearer perspective. Obviously, a fully automatic rifle could ALOT of damage to a group of civilians who were caught totally off-guard.

From the latest reports, the shooting on the island lasted up to two hours. Officials say that some of the victims might have drowned swimming off the island towards shore.

My link

[grunder]

So murder is 21 years - but what about treason? Or acts of war? Surely there would be the stiffest of penalties for attacking the government itself with the bombings?

He could get a life sentence. The way it works in Norway is that you can only get 21 years at ONE TIME, after that he's up for "forvaring", in which his case is reevaluated, and he can be sentenced for another 21 years. This can be done indefinitely.

I don't know if it's been said yet, since I haven't had time to read the thread, but it's been confirmed that the gun-man was a Norwegian right-wing extremist, and this was a politically motivated attack against the labor government. There's a page about him here:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fnyheter%2Fnorge%2F1.7723548

[libstaK]

Sorry, I just looked at the newer, more up-to-date news items on this massacre.

I was of the impression that the man had a standard issue police sidearm and a shotgun. Now that I know he had a fully automatic weapon it puts the total death toll into a clearer perspective. Obviously, a fully automatic rifle could ALOT of damage to a group of civilians who were caught totally off-guard.

From the latest reports, the shooting on the island lasted up to two hours. Officials say that some of the victims might have drowned swimming off the island towards shore.

My link

Thanks HH for the link and info, yeah an automatic weapon aimed at completely uncomprehending innocents naive to such horrors ever even existing - what a terrible creature, it would, in addition to his fire power speak to how clear headed and analytical his mindset was that he not only mowed so many down but then went and shot them again close up to ensure he finished them off.

[libstaK]

There is, getting him declared mentally incapable and dangerous. In Europe you always know that some day you will get out of jail...but no way to know if you ever get out of a mental institution.

But much more important now is to not commit the McVeigh error: squish the guy before he spat out who else was in on this. Because this is not something that grew on the intellectual feces of one person.

Agreed, even if he acted alone he must have had his view fired up by at least a group of like minded if not more extreme individuals over some time. Apparently he is co-operating with the police and wants to tell his story.

[EllJay]

I believe the radicals and spin doctors across the world dont know what to do to twist this in their direction.

He has been identified as a Christian fundamentalist,a member of the Freemason and a have extreme Zionist sympathies. He calls himself "anti-racist" and says he hates Nordic ethnic nationalists. He pretends to be strong "market liberal" and compare National Socialism to Islam and called both for "hate ideologies". He is a pronounced anti-Nazi and see Winston Churchill as one of his models.

This is like a witch's cauldron of ideologist mayhem.

Islamic terrorists feel "cheated" since none of them did this. Like, "-Damn, why didnt we come up with this". But they can clearly not find any common ground with him, apart from the harm, chaos and hurt he caused.

Christian fundamentalist Right wingers dont know what the hell to do. Here they "hoped" for it to have been an Islamic terror attack, and get left with this?

Neo-nazis would be the one cheering you might suspect, but they say WTF!!...he was a Zionist sympathiser, disavow National Socialism and anti-Nazi?

Freemasons and the British, (the Churchill admiration), is appalled to even remotely being related to this.

All this is yet to be definitely confirmed, but this is the info around as of yet.

Some things might be what just spurted out as the media chaos is at its peak.

Hopefully his "reasons" will become clearer.

But this might be irony at its highest levels.

Makes your head spin.

[+susieice]

Such a mindless tragedy. Heartfelt condolences to the people of Norway.

Several of the articles I read along with the ones posted here mention that the police found a van full of explosives on the island that belonged to the gunman. Since the island is isolated, he must have taken the van over by ferry. I shutter to think what all this man may have been prepared for.

[grunder]

Christ, some of these journalists. Stoltenberg is on the verge of tears and a journalist asked him "how do you think this will affect the next election", he calmly tells her "this is not at all an issue I'm thinking about right now". The man has the patience of a saint, he lost many friends there, but even so he reminds us that this isn't the time to speculate and point fingers and jumpt to conclusion, that we should be focusing on helping the victims and their families.

Jonas Gahr Støre also has a press conference in English, that can be seen here: http://www.nrk.no/video/utenriksminister_jonas_gahr_store_om_terroren/3AE5FCFE52BE5EC7/

I feel that they're both handling this situation as good as anyone could have asked for.

Edited July 23, 2011 by grunder

[EllJay]

Christ, some of these journalists. Stoltenberg is on the verge of tears and a journalist asked him "how do you think this will affect the next election", he calmly tells her "this is not at all an issue I'm thinking about right now". The man has the patience of a saint,

Actually I'm more surprised that no journalist asked him if he preferred Big Mac over Quarter Pounder with Cheese, and what he thinks about Charlie Sheens upcoming sitcom.

Some goddamn journalist should not be let near a notebook or a keyboard.

[arglebargle]

Oh goodie, mentally impaired clown Alex Jones claims he has evidence that this was part of something called "Operation Gladio". What was the evidence? Well, nothing really.

I'm trying to post some comments on his youtube page saying he's gotta stop this nonsense, and so does his fans. But they're brainwashed. The amount of completely brainwashed people that view him as a sort of leader figure scares me to death. It's like the movie "The Wave".

[questionmark]

Oh goodie, mentally impaired clown Alex Jones claims he has evidence that this was part of something called "Operation Gladio". What was the evidence? Well, nothing really.

I'm trying to post some comments on his youtube page saying he's gotta stop this nonsense, and so does his fans. But they're brainwashed. The amount of completely brainwashed people that view him as a sort of leader figure scares me to death. It's like the movie "The Wave".

Operation Gladio is a old cold war scheme for the case that Italy was taken over by the communists, notorious for the P2 scandal. But it went with the Dodo about 30 years ago.

[Corp]

I think it's crazy that this guy might be out in 14 years. Hopefully they can find a way to throw him in a hole and keep him there for the rest of his life. Though sounds like the Norwegian justice system is really good so we'll see.

No surprise there's already conspiracy theories popping up defending this b******. Can't even wait for the bodies to go cold before they use this to fuel their paranoid rantings.