arglebargle Posted July 23, 2011 #76 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I think it's crazy that this guy might be out in 14 years. Hopefully they can find a way to throw him in a hole and keep him there for the rest of his life. Though sounds like the Norwegian justice system is really good so we'll see. No surprise there's already conspiracy theories popping up defending this b******. Can't even wait for the bodies to go cold before they use this to fuel their paranoid rantings. He's probably never getting out. I don't think his fellow inmates would look kindly upon a massacre of teenagers, not when everyone knows who he is and what he's done. I'm guessing the prisonguards would quietly turn their back and let him get shanked even though I've never heard of this happening in a Norwegian prison before, I think this would be a first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllJay Posted July 23, 2011 #77 Share Posted July 23, 2011 This is the recollection and blog from one of the young girls who managed to get out alive from the island. It is a direct translation with GoogleTranslate from Norwegian to English so the grammar will ofcourse suck. But I think you can manage to understand and grasp the terror, fear but also joy of life and the survivors-guilt. I woke up. I can not sleep anymore. I'm sitting in the living room. Feeling grief, anger, happiness, God, I do not know what. There are too many emotions. There are too many thoughts. I'm afraid. I react to the slightest sound. I will write about what happened on Utøya. What my eyes saw, what I felt, what I did. The words come straight from the heart, but I would also anonymize many names out of respect for my friends.We had a crisis meeting in the main building after the explosions in Oslo. After that there was a meeting for members of Akershus and Oslo. After the meetings there were many, many people around and in the main building. We consoled ourselves that we were safe on an island. No one knew the hell that would be brought upon us too. I stood in the main entrance when panic broke out. I heard shots. I saw him shoot. Everyone started to run. The first thought was: "Why does the police on us? What the hell? "I ran into a small room. People was running, screaming. I was scared. I managed to get into one of the rooms at the back of the building. We were many in there. We lay on the floor all together. We heard several shots. Were more and more afraid. I cried. I knew nothing. I saw my best friend through the window and wondered if I should go out and bring him to me. I did not. I saw fear in his eyes. We were lying on the floor inside the room for a few minutes. We agreed not to open the door in case the killer came. We heard several shots and decided to jump out the window. Panic broke out among us. All in the room rushed to the window and tried to jump out. I was the last and thought: "I am the last to jump out the window. Now I'm going to die. I'm sure, but it might be okay, then I know that the others might be safe. "I throwed my bag out the window. Tried to climb down, but lost my grip. I landed hard on the left part of the body. A boy helped me up. We ran into the woods. I looked around. "Is he here? Is he shooting at me? Does he see me? "A girl had a broken ankle. Another was severely injured. I tried to help before I went down to the water. I sought cover behind a sort of brick wall. We were many. I prayed, prayed, prayed. I hope that God saw me. I called Mom and said that I was not sure we would ever meet again, but that I would do anything to try to survive. I said several times that I loved her. I heard fear in her voice. She cried. It hurt. I sent a text message to my dad, told him I loved him. I sent a text message to another person I very ,very in love with. We had contact for a short while. I sent a text message to my best friend. He did not answer. We heard several shots. Snuggled together. Did everything we could to keep warm. There were so many thoughts. I was so scared. My dad called me. I cried, said I loved him. He said he was coming with my brother to take care of me when I come across to the mainland, or they came to the island. There were so many emotions. So many thoughts. I told everything I could. It took some time. The other calling their parents eventually started all texting for fear that the killer would hear us. I thought of my sister who's away. How I would tell her how it went? What happened to me. I updated on Twitter and Facebook that I was still alive and that I was "safe." I wrote that I was waiting for the police. People jumped into the water, started swimming. I was lying. I decided that if he come by, I would play dead. I would not run or swim. I can not describe the fear, all your thoughts, what I felt. He shot around me A man came by. "I'm from the police." I was lying still. Some shouted back that he had to prove it. I do not remember exactly what he said, but the killer started shooting. He charged. More shooting. He shot those around me. I was lying still. I thought: "Now it's over. He's here. He takes me. Now I'm dying. "People screamed. I heard that others were shot. Others jumped into the water. I was there. The mobile phone in hand. I lay on top of the legs of a girl. Two others was on top of my leg. I was lying still. I sent a text messages. The mobile phone rang several times. I was lying still, played dead. I lay there for at least an hour. It was completely quiet. I gently turned my head to see if I could see someone alive. I saw dead bodies. I saw blood. Fear. I decided to get up. I had been lying on top of a dead body. Two dead bodies was lying on top of me. I had a guardian angel. I did not know if he would come back again. I had not the courage to look at all those messages, those who had called and texted me. I hurried down to the water. I took off my sweater. I thought it would be difficult to swim for me. I considered whether I should bring my cell phone or leave it. I put it in the back pocket and jumped into the water. I saw several others in the water. They had swum far. I saw that someone had gathered around a floating air mattress or something like that. There were many in boats who picked up those who swam out. I swam, swam, and swam towards the air mattress. I screamed. Wept. Was cold. I thought of I would drown. It was heavier and heavier. I prayed. I continued. Was tired in my arms. Decided to turn on my back and just use my legs to swim. I sank. I started to swim normally again. A little while I thought that they who had gathered around the air mattress began to move away. I screamed. Begged them to wait for me. I must have seen wrong. I swam at least a few hundred meters before I arrived. We talked a little together. What we knew and , where we came from. When the boats passed us we were shouting for help, but they picked up the others who had swam for longer than us. A man in a boat came to us. He threw out several life jackets. I got hold of one. Got it on me. I held on to the small air mattress a long time until the same man came back to pick us up. All got into it. He began to drive towards the shore. After a while his small boat began to take in some water. I did everything I could to get the most water out. I used a bucket. I was exhausted. Another girl in the boat took over. We came to the shore. We got blankets. Tears pressed on. I cried more. A woman hugged me. It was so good. I wept aloud. I sobbed. A man lent me his phone. I called my dad, "I live. I made it. Now I am safe. "I hung up. Cried some more. We had to walk a bit. Completely unknown people took us into their cars and drove us to Sundvollen hotel. I ran in to see if I could see my best friend. I didnt see him at any place. I saw another friend. I cried loudly. We hugged each other for long. It was good. I walked around, looking for friends. My heart pounded. I cried more. I reported to the police, then went through all the lists. I did not know if my best friend lived. I looked through all the lists. I could not find his name anywhere. I was scared. I took off my wet socks. I was half naked. Got a jacket. I tried to phone a bit. Contacted my parents again. My dad and brother were on their way to fetch me. I drank some cacao. I sat down. Thought. Wept. So many friends. Hugged them. Wept. "Facebook update" I borrowed a computer. Updated the Facebook and Twitter again that I was safe. I was at the hotel for several hours before my family came. I looked for familiar people. I talked to a priest. I told all I had seen. It was a good talk. A man from the Red Cross saw to all my wounds. Cleansed them. Time passed. I was with some of my friends. All talked about the same. How we survived. What had happened. I asked several if they had seen my best friend. No one had seen him. I was scared. I thought that it was my fault because we had not managed to stay together. A friend got the key to a hotel room. We sat there, looked at the news. There was anger, sorrow, so many emotions. My dad called, they had come. I took the elevator down. Run out to them. Hugged my brother and my dad a long time. I wept aloud. My brother was crying too. It was a good moment. I saw a boy who looked like my best friend. I shouted his name. He turned around. It was him. We hugged each other for long. Both crying, we asked each other how we had managed. After a while, I registered myself and we drove home. My best friend was with me. His brother had come to me with his best friend. There were several who had gathered at my home. They would not go home until they had seen that I was fine. We talked a little bit. I drank a glass of juice. Ate a yoghurt. Talked some more with my mom and my family. I called my best friend. It was a good talk. She said: "I was not sure if I would ever get this phonecall." Tears pressed on. We talked a little bit. After that I lay down for a bit. It was three a clock. Mom refused to let me sleep alone, so we slept together. "I am still in schock" There have been several hours since all this happened. I'm still in shock. Everything has not fallen into place. I have seen the corpses of my friends. Several of my friends are missing. I am glad that I can swim. I am glad that I live. For that God watched over me. There are so many emotions, so many thoughts. I think of all the relatives. In all I lost. In the hell that is and was on the island. This summer's most beautiful fairy tale is transformed into Norway's worst nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarPlexus Posted July 23, 2011 #78 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I think this guy is a scapegoat. This thing stinks to high heaven with agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllJay Posted July 23, 2011 #79 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I think this guy is a scapegoat. This thing stinks to high heaven with agenda. Scapegoat???..He was ****in alone on an island with an machinegun and 600 kids. Not to many "grassy knolls" there, except all the grassy knolls. Hey, Alex Jones called, he wants his theory back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arglebargle Posted July 23, 2011 #80 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Scapegoat???..He was ****in alone on an island with an machinegun and 600 kids. Not to many "grassy knolls" there, except all the grassy knolls. Hey, Alex Jones called, he wants his theory back. There were also hundreds of witnesses, and he's confessed, and they found recipes for making bombs on his computer, he researched it thoroughly, and planned it for a very long time. I think it's pretty open and shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted July 23, 2011 #81 Share Posted July 23, 2011 There were also hundreds of witnesses, and he's confessed, and they found recipes for making bombs on his computer, he researched it thoroughly, and planned it for a very long time. I think it's pretty open and shut. Sorry guys, but I never believed that things like this happen with only one person involved. There might be one perpetrator but several planners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arglebargle Posted July 23, 2011 #82 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Sorry guys, but I never believed that things like this happen with only one person involved. There might be one perpetrator but several planners. Some of the witnesses said there were two shooters. To me that sounds more reasonable. But to say it was backed by the nwo / cia / mossad, and so forth is stretching it very far considering theres nothing to suggest it except him having right wing ties and being very anti islamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllJay Posted July 23, 2011 #83 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Anders Behring Breivik motives and source for his own logic for this hideous act seem to have become a bit clearer. It seems he did this as an attack on, what he sees, the multicultural movement/ideology in Europe. He seems to see himself as an modern Knights Templar on a crusade. He has made a movieclip of anti Muslim propaganda and historical arguments of what he sees as an Islamic silent jihad and take-over in Europe conducted via mass-immigration and Islamic over-population with help of what he says the Multicultural Marxist. In this he include in principal all the existing political parties in Europe, but in the case of Norway he targeted his hate against Arbeiderpartiet that he sees as the betrayers of Norwegian national isolationism, but mostly against Red Youth. He has a warped sense of himself as a knight in shining armour, as it seems through the movie clip, defending Europe in a crusade. The Knights Templar seems to have been his source of inspiration. This might show to bee wrong, and we will see the coming days what the interrogation comes up with. But as of now this might be his twisted logic for killing innocent kids like a psycho-butcher from a hellish nightmare. See this video at your own peril. It does not contain any vocal declaration from himself and not any direct violent images (this might be subjective though),but contains a lot of propaganda. It might be disturbing in many other ways for everyone concerned. Its a sad, sad day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7avMHN16Y1s Edited July 23, 2011 by EllJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted July 23, 2011 #84 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) Sorry guys, but I never believed that things like this happen with only one person involved. There might be one perpetrator but several planners. Agreed questionmark. That van being on that island still bothers me. The shooter didn't drive it on the water like some kind of a whacked-out messiah and he didn't throw it into a rowboat or even a powerboat. It takes a specially adapted ship large enough to carry vehicles, like a supply ship or a barge. I wonder just when that van was put on the island. Edited July 23, 2011 by susieice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted July 23, 2011 #85 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Some of the witnesses said there were two shooters. To me that sounds more reasonable. But to say it was backed by the nwo / cia / mossad, and so forth is stretching it very far considering theres nothing to suggest it except him having right wing ties and being very anti islamic. CIA Mossad and so on, no, not even they are so stupid as to launch an exercise in futility such as this one. This is some conspiracy believers with the illusion that if they do something drastic something will change.... the only thing that changes is the lives of many people. The rest remains as has been...unless there are a lot of paranoid people around. Then you get added harassment security at airports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllJay Posted July 23, 2011 #86 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Agreed questionmark. That van being on that island still bothers me. The shooter didn't drive it on the water like some kind of a whacked-out messiah and he didn't throw it into a rowboat or even a powerboat. It takes a specially adapted ship large enough to carry vehicles, like a supply ship or a barge. I wonder just when that van was put on the island. Or just use the public ferry that connects to the island, and a fake police-ID and uniform. Which is just what he did. No witness seems to have seen a second shooter, just heard shoots from different weapons or/and directions which under the circumstances could have been echoes bouncing around the woods or/and buildings, and that he might have switched back and forth between his two weapons he had. No one can know for sure now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted July 23, 2011 #87 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Or just use the public ferry that connects to the island, and a fake police-ID and uniform. Which is just what he did. No witness seems to have seen a second shooter, just heard shoots from different weapons or/and directions which under the circumstances could have been echoes bouncing around the woods or/and buildings, and that he might have switched back and forth between his two weapons he had. No one can know for sure now though. That would make sense. The island just seems so small and not set up for vehicle traffic it seemed unlikely that a regularly scheduled ferry would be available on a daily basis. From the aerial photos, it doesn't look like a destination anyone not going to the camp would be traveling to. I can see why the teens would have felt safe thinking they were isolated and no one could bother them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllJay Posted July 23, 2011 #88 Share Posted July 23, 2011 That would make sense. The island just seems so small and not set up for vehicle traffic it seemed unlikely that a regularly scheduled ferry would be available on a daily basis. From the aerial photos, it doesn't look like a destination anyone not going to the camp would be traveling to. I can see why the teens would have felt safe thinking they were isolated and no one could bother them. I can see your reasoning, but I think there is a ferry/ferries going to different islands there, and Utøya was often used as camps/events and gatherings for AUF and others, which often have vehicles loaded with equipments shipped there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arglebargle Posted July 23, 2011 #89 Share Posted July 23, 2011 He took the ferry. News article use google translator to translate it. It's not gonna be great but it's doable. Essentially it's a 22 year old who says he took the last ferry over for the day and the guy was on the ferry with him. Generally Norwegian ferries carry about 20-30 cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted July 23, 2011 #90 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I really am not trying to sound like an idiot, but I don't understand the articles that I have been reading. From what I have read so far the implication is that this one 32 year old guy plans for months to build a bomb, he then parks the bomb on a city street and detonates it. Some point later he takes a ferry to go to a small island and then by himself kills 85 some kids who are camping there. After an hour and a half of shooting kids he stops, and then allows himself to be arrested? Am I getting this right, or am I losing something in the translation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted July 24, 2011 #91 Share Posted July 24, 2011 He took the ferry. News article use google translator to translate it. It's not gonna be great but it's doable. Essentially it's a 22 year old who says he took the last ferry over for the day and the guy was on the ferry with him. Generally Norwegian ferries carry about 20-30 cars. Thank you for the link Ranyhyn. I translated it through google and that boy had quite a story to tell. This shooter boarded the ferry as a cop and searched everyone who trusted him, the whole time sitting there with a van full of explosives and knowing what he was going to do. What an unimaginable b*****d! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted July 24, 2011 #92 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I really am not trying to sound like an idiot, but I don't understand the articles that I have been reading. From what I have read so far the implication is that this one 32 year old guy plans for months to build a bomb, he then parks the bomb on a city street and detonates it. Some point later he takes a ferry to go to a small island and then by himself kills 85 some kids who are camping there. After an hour and a half of shooting kids he stops, and then allows himself to be arrested? Am I getting this right, or am I losing something in the translation? That is the state of the news, but I want to add that this guy is being represented by the well known Neo-Nazi criminal defender Geir Lippestad (who claims not being one). If he was alone in this I would be very surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.H. Holmes Posted July 24, 2011 #93 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I really am not trying to sound like an idiot, but I don't understand the articles that I have been reading. From what I have read so far the implication is that this one 32 year old guy plans for months to build a bomb, he then parks the bomb on a city street and detonates it. Some point later he takes a ferry to go to a small island and then by himself kills 85 some kids who are camping there. After an hour and a half of shooting kids he stops, and then allows himself to be arrested? Am I getting this right, or am I losing something in the translation? Seems about right to me, although I'm sure that some of the posters from Norway might have a better perspective than I. I read that the shooting incident lasted about two hours, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.H. Holmes Posted July 24, 2011 #94 Share Posted July 24, 2011 That is the state of the news, but I want to add that this guy is being represented by the well known Neo-Nazi criminal defender Geir Lippestad (who claims not being one). If he was alone in this I would be very surprised. I don't know, it does seem like a lone wolf attack as of now. There could of been others who supported him or atleast fostered his extreme ideology that lead him to commit these acts of violence. It would seem he is the only who was active in the attacks at Oslo and at the island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted July 24, 2011 #95 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I don't know, it does seem like a lone wolf attack as of now. There could of been others who supported him or atleast fostered his extreme ideology that lead him to commit these acts of violence. It would seem he is the only who was active in the attacks at Oslo and at the island. The lone wolf method is the preferred by European Right Extremists. At the end it always was one or two who "did it" and all know who instigated it...but as there is no evidence only one or two get to go to jail. The rest can keep on playing darts with their Blood and Honor knifes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllJay Posted July 24, 2011 #96 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I really am not trying to sound like an idiot, but I don't understand the articles that I have been reading. From what I have read so far the implication is that this one 32 year old guy plans for months to build a bomb, he then parks the bomb on a city street and detonates it. Some point later he takes a ferry to go to a small island and then by himself kills 85 some kids who are camping there. After an hour and a half of shooting kids he stops, and then allows himself to be arrested? Am I getting this right, or am I losing something in the translation? He does so under the convictions I mentioned earlier. The bomb was aimed at the Government and its buildings. That particular island was a youth camp for Arbeiderpartiet with around 600 youths there and it was said that the Prime Minitster was going to attend. Anders Behring Breivik motives and source for his own logic for this hideous act seem to have become a bit clearer.It seems he did this as an attack on, what he sees, the multicultural movement/ideology in Europe. He seems to see himself as an modern Knights Templar on a crusade. He has made a movieclip of anti Muslim propaganda and historical arguments of what he sees as an Islamic silent jihad and take-over in Europe conducted via mass-immigration and Islamic over-population with help of what he says the Multicultural Marxist. In this he include in principal all the existing political parties in Europe, but in the case of Norway he targeted his hate against Arbeiderpartiet that he sees as the betrayers of Norwegian national isolationism, but mostly against Red Youth. He has a warped sense of himself as a knight in shining armour, as it seems through the movie clip, defending Europe in a crusade. The Knights Templar seems to have been his source of inspiration. This might show to bee wrong, and we will see the coming days what the interrogation comes up with. But as of now this might be his twisted logic for killing innocent kids like a psycho-butcher from a hellish nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.H. Holmes Posted July 24, 2011 #97 Share Posted July 24, 2011 The lone wolf method is the preferred by European Right Extremists. At the end it always was one or two who "did it" and all know who instigated it...but as there is no evidence only one or two get to go to jail. The rest can keep on playing darts with their Blood and Honor knifes. Very true, you can see the same with Timothy McVeigh and those who fostered his extreme right-wing ideology who never were brought up on criminal charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socio Posted July 24, 2011 #98 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Alleged Norwegian mass murderer faces just 21 years in prison The alleged mass murderer who killed nearly 100 people in Norway on Friday may be facing just 21 years in prison if convicted. Norway does not have the death penalty. He ruthlessly murdered all those people many just kids and he is facing just 21 years? There is something horribly wrong with this, at the very least he should never walk the streets a free man again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted July 24, 2011 #99 Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) The video he uploaded is back online. It does explain his line of thinking... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAwp2FnRmsE Guess he wanted to attack those that supported the multiculturalism death of Europe. Would more clear if he had just blown up a mosque and shot some muslims instead of his own countrymen despite their views. Here's from the Daily Mail of his facebook pages and such explaining himself: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018148/Anders-Behring-Breivik-posted-YouTube-video-hours-Norway-terror-attacks.html edit- Here's his manifesto: http://www.kevinislaughter.com/2011/anders-behring-breivik-2083-a-european-declaration-of-independence-manifesto/ Direct link: http://www.kevinislaughter.com/wp-content/uploads/2083+-+A+European+Declaration+of+Independence.pdf Edited July 24, 2011 by __Kratos__ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Red Devil Posted July 24, 2011 #100 Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Guess he wanted to attack those that supported the multiculturalism death of Europe. Would more clear if he had just blown up a mosque and shot some muslims instead of his own countrymen despite their views. In a twisted way, his madness makes sense. By attacking the kids from the labor youth party he was attacking the principle ideology (multiculturalism) and demonstrating against his "corrupt" countrymen who support it. Attacking a mosque would have meant attacking the output result of the ideology, not the ideology itself. Apparently he was planning both attacks for over 2 years. I'm not too sure he had direct "partners" in his quest but the hatred was definitely brainwashed into him by Nationalistic propaganda. Although he might have worked alone, I'm not sure this tragedy should be looked out as an isolated incident. In fact, what happened also confirms that there are worrying signs of intolerance towards other races in Europe and this intolerance seems to be translated into support for Nationalism and hatred and rejection towards the Left. Considering a tough standoff between the True Finns and the traditional left and pro center parties such revolutionary conclusions do not look as an exaggeration. We can see similar "revolutions" all across Western Europe now. Austria, Germany, France, Sweden, Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway – it is just an incomplete list of West European countries, where radical nationalist parties and movements are gradually strengthening their positions. In September 2010, the Democrats of Sweden (which position is comparable with the True Finns) achieved an unprecedented success at the parliamentary elections in their country. It is difficult to miss the fact that the geography of the success of right parties at the elections in Europe coincides with the geography of spreading of illegal immigrants from Balkans, North Africa and the Middle East. Though Italy is not on this map but the in-capability of Silvio Berlusconi's government to settle the situation with the arrival of more than 20,000 refugees from Tunisia at the island of Lampedusa, enables us to forecast the growth of nationalistic sentiments in Italy too. The North League's separatists do not abandon their plans to form on the base of industrially developed northern districts of Italy the republic of Padania - away from Lampedusa, from Napoli and other poor and disturbed areas. My link It could be tragic days ahead for migrants hoping for a better life in Europe and for any locals who get in the way and support them. Edited July 24, 2011 by BlackRedLittleDevil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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