FRENCH SEIZED IN IRAQ

[Babs]

panther wrote:

Attack my words and beliefs that's fine it's called debate but before you put words into my mouth make sure I said them.

WELL SAID!...The individuals you are talking about and talking to_ do this to me. They put words into my mouth and then attack those 'very words'. If they can't beat what you are saying they make 'something up' _and then attack 'it'. Then others chime in, thinking you said 'that'.... or 'play the game with them' and come up against you. It's very hard to have a discussion or debate with them, panther.

You see, if they can't discredit what you say, they discredit you.

Bottom line: "If they can't beat you, they cheat."

[gollum]

You see, if they can't discredit what you say, they discredit you.

The words "pot" and "kettle" spring to mind here!

You, Babs, in your infinate wisdom, had me defending terrorists in a different thread without so much as bothering to read my comments. You know the old saying " people in glass houses..........".

[Fluffybunny]

You see, if they can't discredit what you say, they discredit you.

Bottom line: "If they can't beat you, they cheat."

I love a good joke in the morning...thanks babs...

Oh the irony of that statement is just beyond words.

[Babs]

gollum....I comprehend you very well. I can see your avatar, you project yourself quite plainly. What you say is no surpise to me_ the thoughts you have about me are very enlightening, they seem to describe yourself. Your talk doesn't surprise me, either, especially your talk about taking up a terroristic stance. (for a cause)

I understand about the Chechnya people and the Russians, and that is very sad, but that doesn't mean I understand or approve of you.

Edited September 6, 2004 by Babs

[Babs]

Just what I thought. Then you don't agree with us. You 'seem' to sympathize with the terrorists.

254632[/snapback]

Theres that one, for starters.

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snuffypuffer...you got it wrong! I was talking about the U.S. when I refer to 'us' in this sentence. Not panther.

Quit 'snuffin' that stuff.

Edited September 6, 2004 by Babs

[gollum]

gollum....I comprehend you very well. I can see your avatar, you project yourself quite plainly. What you say is no surpise to me_ the thoughts you have about me are very enlightening, they seem to be describe yourself. Your talk doesn't surprise me, either, especially you talk about taking up a terroristic stance. (for a cause)

When have I said I would ever taken up a "terroristic"(is that a word"?) stance to defend a cause? You are really starting to show that you do not "read", and only see what you want to see in my and others posts. I've put the word "read" in inverted comas for you so you can look it up it means to read and UNDERSTAND the written word.

Because of my avatar, I'm now a terrorist, is that right? Is that what you get from a picture of Che?

I'm curious Babs, do you know who Che is? More to the point do you know what he stood for? His political ideology?

Just for the record Babs, I've fought for my country on more than one occasion and mores the fact that I fought alongside your countrymen. There is a very real chance I will be going out to Iraq in the very near future to fight yet again for my country and again alongside your countrymen. And you think you can tell what type of person I am from an avatar? Get real lady!

Did you actually know where Chechnya was prior to this massacre? Or is there nowhere you know beyond your own borders?

I'll say this once lady, do'nt ever try to question my loyalties again!

[Fluffybunny]

Gollum, don't worry about babs. It seems that anyone who doesn't vote for bush is a terrorist, or a sympathiser(regardless of what country they live in). Terrorists appear everywhere it seems...

I think pretty much everyone here is able to understand your avatar and quotes without assuming you are a terrorists. I think you and I may have passed by each other in 1991...I salute you for that, and for any return to duty you may have upcoming in this war...

[gollum]

Cheers fluffs, your comments a very much appreciated.

There was NO NEED for that comment Gollum

Edited September 7, 2004 by UniversalAbsurdity

[Talon]

Talon, thanks for your reply. I needed to know where you stood on this serious matter. (terrorism)

If you'd actually bothered to read my posts over the last 9 months you'd already know my stance on the matter instead of making stuff up about me and Gollum.

left, regardless of social policies etc you guys are finally seeing the threat that is out there?  

sorry, just reading what wun wrote has kind of left me in a state of disbelief

Yes, it is incredible, but wun has changed.

I doubt any of us leftists have changed, Wun, Gollum and I probably have the exact same views on terrorism as we did before, the difference is you're now actually reading our posts because we blasted you for leaping to conclusions about our loyalties.

The French ban on headscarves/skullcaps/crosses/whatever is ridiculous. Wearing a cross or a headscarf does not directly threaten anyone else's freedoms. One of my best friends wears a hijab - am I threatened? Of course not. I'm secure in my religion and she's secure in hers. Other friends of mine wear crosses - do I care? Why should I? Wearing a cross isn't an attempt to convert me. I understand that France is trying to promote secularism, but preventing individuals from expressing their religion in a peaceful, non-threatening way is not the answer.

I fail to see how the French desire to remove religion from schools is anyone's concern but their own. As far as I'm concerned it’s a step forward and hope the rest of Europe follows.

Besides that, the hijab isn't even a religious symbol. It's actually a cultural one.

Then they shouldn't have a problem removing it for 6 hours, 5 days a week.

Preventing Muslim schoolgirls from wearing a damn scarf is only going to make them despise their government.

Their parents choose to live in France knowing full well the secular laws of the country, the moment they choose to live their they agreed to live under French law & French rule for themselves and their descendants. If they don't want to respect the French wish to keep religion and schools separate, then they can go back to a country that shares their believes rather than moving into a new country and trying to change its way of thinking to theirs.

I am so ******* sick of Political Correctness, the whole concept should be made illegal.

Oh, and, notice how the law bans large crosses. Children can wear small ones. How fair.

Yeah small, as in could hide under a vest and not be seen, what do you want them to do, strip-search the children?

WELL SAID!...The individuals you are talking about and talking to_ do this to me. They put words into my mouth and then attack those 'very words'.  If they can't beat what you are saying they make 'something up' _and then attack 'it'. Then others chime in, thinking you said 'that'.... or 'play the game with them' and come up against you. It's very hard to have a discussion or debate with them, panther.

You see, if they can't discredit what you say, they discredit you.

Bottom line: "If they can't beat you, they cheat." 

Considering we're the one's who post the facts and ignored, that is... oh wait Gollum beat me to it "The words "pot" and "kettle" spring to mind here!"

I'm curious Babs, do you know who Che is? More to the point do you know what he stood for? His political ideology?

I do, he was a good man trying to do his job under difficult circumstances.

And was murdered for it

Removed offensive Quote

-UA

Edited September 7, 2004 by UniversalAbsurdity

[Talon]

BIN LADEN TRUCE DEMAND

The group holding two French hostages in Iraq has issued three conditions for their release.

The Islamic Army of Iraq said France had 48 hours to pay a £2.8m ransom, pledge not to get involved in Iraq, and to accept a truce offer from Osama bin Laden.

A statement signed by the group's "higher command" was posted on an Islamist website.

Speaking in a taped message in April, bin Laden offered peace to European countries that refrained from attacking Muslims and pulled their troops out of the Islamic world within three months.

European leaders dismissed the offer, saying the idea of negotiating with bin Laden was absurd.

Christian Chesnot, of Radio France Internationale, Georges Malbrunot, of the daily Le Figaro, and their Syrian driver were taken hostage on August 20.

The group initiallty demanded that France rescind a ban on Islamic headscarves in state schools.

France refused the demand and implemented the ban last week at the beginning of the new academic year.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13216370,00.html

[Wings of Selkhet]

If they don't want to respect the French wish to keep religion and schools separate, then they can go back to a country that shares their believes rather than moving into a new country and trying to change its way of thinking to theirs.

Yeah, just ignore the fact that many of these Muslim families escaped from horrible governments in Northern Africa and don't have anywhere else to go.

I'm shocked by your opinion on this, Talon. What's wrong with wearing a hijab or a cross in school? What is so outrageous about it that the French need to ban it? I hardly see how it's a "step forward." Enlighten me. I truly don't understand.

Edited September 6, 2004 by Wings of Selkhet

[Talon]

Yeah, just ignore the fact that many of these Muslim families escaped from horrible governments in Northern Africa and don't have anywhere else to go.

And that allows them to try and alter the beleifs and culture of country they move to?

I'm shocked by your opinion on this, Talon. What's wrong with wearing a hijab or a cross in school? What is so outrageous about it that the French need to ban it? I hardly see how it's a "step forward." Enlighten me. I truly don't understand.

Its getting religion out of schools. Europe is nearly Athiest anyway, the sooner the better.

And plus, the French don't want it in their schools, and the last time I checked the country was called France.

Edited September 7, 2004 by Talon S.

[Babs]

Cheers fluffs, your comments a very much appreciated.

There was NO NEED for that comment Gollum

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You've made my day!

Honestly, gollum, I couldn't quit laughing long enough to respond. You don't have to drop your drawers to impress me. I have many cum backs, but it would be so anti-climactic.

I believe you are a woman-hater, too, 'because' you called me a man-hater. And, because you had depreciatory remarks about women pasted under your avatar (at one time)... dishonoring women. Looks like I caught 'your' character. Wow, when gollum isn't winning an arguement, his pants come off!

gollum wrote:

When have I said I would ever taken up a "terroristic" ("is that a word?") stance

"Terroristic"... it is, if I say it is. You can spell a word any way you want... or make up a word. Now, is it grammatically correct?....Well, that's an entirely different matter. All I can say back to you is, "When did 'I' say terrorists and liberals are the same?"...Hey, I feel for you bro_they do that to me too.

gollum wrote:

I'll say this once lady, don't ever try to question my loyalties again!

Is that a threat?

Fluffy...what's wrong with your bunny?....it doesn't look very fluffy.

Talon... I feel like I'm in the boys' club...and I use that term loosely. I disagree with you; wun 'has' changed, hope he stays that way.

I wrote:

Talon, thanks for your reply. I needed to know where you stood on this serious matter.(terrorism)

Talon wrote:

If you'd actually bothered to read my posts over the last 9 months...

Geez, Talon, I can't read 9 months of your cosmic history, neither you nor gollum are that interesting.

Edited September 7, 2004 by UniversalAbsurdity

[Fluffybunny]

I'm shocked by your opinion on this, Talon. What's wrong with wearing a hijab or a cross in school? What is so outrageous about it that the French need to ban it? I hardly see how it's a "step forward." Enlighten me. I truly don't understand.

If you don't mind I would like to add my 2 cents worth here.

France is and has been a secular nation, seperating itself from religion. It does not feel that it has to bend to the wishes of every single immigrant. The law banning the religous symbols in PUBLIC school is up to the country of france and it's people; not a group of immigrants unwilling to adapt to a new country and it's policies.

It is ridiculous to think that if the tables were turned that muslim nations would be so open to accepting outside influences. Because you move to a country; it does not give you the right to assume that the entire country is going to bend to your needs and wants.

When in Rome; do as the Romans...The french have decided to ban religous symbols in public schools...if it is that bothersome to someone they are welcome to attend private school or leave the country and head back to where they came from.

[Wings of Selkhet]

And that allows them to try and alter the beleifs and culture of country they move to?

I may not have anything to back this up, but it seems to me like the French haven't been so concerned with getting religion out of schools until they experienced such an influx of Muslim immigrants.

Its getting religion out of schools.

There's a difference between religious promotion and religion in general. It's wrong for a public school to promote a certain religion. But why is it wrong for pupils to express their religion in a way that doesn't threaten another pupil's beliefs?

And plus, the French don't want it in their schools, and the last time I checked the country was called France.

There's something seriously wrong with that argument, Talon. Just because the French don't want it, it's okay?

I respect your opinion but I don't understand it. France is taking away a basic freedom of its children - how is that acceptable?

Europe is nearly Athiest anyway, the sooner the better.

The sooner the better? What's that supposed to mean, anyway?

And by the way, I'm an atheist.

[Talon]

YEAH, like Fluffy said

[Wings of Selkhet]

sigh. I still don't understand why just because the French say it's okay in their country, that it's okay. It doesn't make it morally right.

[Talon]

I may not have anything to back this up, but it seems to me like the French haven't been so concerned with getting religion out of schools until they experienced such an influx of Muslim immigrants.

Nonsense they’ve always had it, just it was only recently they added Islam to it as well. Having delayed it so long because they knew fine well that the Muslims would claim to be a special case who should be immune to the law already covering Christians, Sheiks, and Jews.

There's a difference between religious promotion and religion in general. It's wrong for a public school to promote a certain religion. But why is it wrong for pupils to express their religion in a way that doesn't threaten another pupil's beliefs?

Because the French people say so, and if I remember right its their country. Its none of anyone else’s business what they believe is or is not acceptable in their schools.

There's something seriously wrong with that argument, Talon. Just because the French don't want it, it's okay?

YES, god, how many times to I have to say this. ITS FRANCE, the country of the FRENCH, if they say its okay in THEIR OWN COUNTRY, then its OKAY.

I respect your opinion but I don't understand it. France is taking away a basic freedom of its children - how is that acceptable?

No it isn’t, it’s the law! A law supported by the majority of the French population. And laws ban lots of things, you going to claim banning drugs, violence and criminal acts is an infringement on basic freedoms. May seem like a stupid collation, but it isn’t. The French want it, the French have it, their basic right to have that law in place.

The sooner the better? What's that supposed to mean, anyway?

Sooner we’re Atheists the better.

And by the way, I'm an atheist.

And?

[Fluffybunny]

Your morals and frances morals are different. You can have your morals in your country and they can have their morals in their country.

Everyone is happy that way. You don't see france coming to your door telling you what you can wear in your country do you? Nope...

[Talon]

Geez, Talon, I can't read 9 months of your cosmic history, neither you nor gollum are that interesting.

Pitty, we find your posts very interesting to read, I mean after a long day at work, everyone needs to relax and have a laugh with some friends.

[Babs]

Talon wrote:

Europe is nearly atheist anyway, the sooner the better

Wings wrote:

The sooner the better? What's that supposed to mean anyway? And, by the way, I'm an atheist.

She's got you there, Talon

[Talon]

I fail to say how... I answered

[Wings of Selkhet]

Oh, I understand now. If the French wanted to, for example, kill any Muslim schoolgirl seen wearing a hijab, it'd be okay, because the French want it. It all makes perfect sense.

[Babs]

I know, Talon, some of you guys make my day. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. This is truely a picnic.

[Talon]

Oh, I understand now. If the French wanted to, for example, kill any Muslim schoolgirl seen wearing a hijab, it'd be okay, because the French want it. It all makes perfect sense.

Oh for god's sake. When you accept the French have different views from you on education (and when you can have a serious arguement) I'll start to take your opinion seriously again.

I know, Talon, some of you guys make my day.   I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. This is truely a picnic.

See we all make each other have a laugh, have a little fun and leave the forum feeling satisfied.

Edited September 7, 2004 by Talon S.