Getting Into Heaven

[Fate_happens]

Here's a good one in the vein of getting into heaven...

There was a church in this area (Irish Mountain, WV) that set aside a portion of their cemetery for "lost souls" way back in the corner of the grave yard on unconsecrated ground. This is where they buried babies who died before they could be baptised. So, according to them, these babies were unable to get into heaven.

What do you think about that?

[keven3]

Here's a good one in the vein of getting into heaven...

There was a church in this area (Irish Mountain, WV) that set aside a portion of their cemetery for "lost souls" way back in the corner of the grave yard on unconsecrated ground. This is where they buried babies who died before they could be baptized. So, according to them, these babies were unable to get into heaven.

What do you think about that?

I have read many times that miscarried and aborted babies do not go to heaven, but rather to "limbo". And I've read the reply on many people's part to say it is ridiculous, that of course babies who are completely innocent go straight to heaven.

Personally, I don't think they go to hell, but rather a sort of purgatory until whatever needs to happen for them happens so that they can be cleared of original sin. Whether they are cleared of their sin now or when Christ returns, who knows. In the end, if not right when they die, they will most likely go to heaven, not perpetually staying in that limbo or purgatorial state.

Keven

[+Paranoid Android]

The way I look it it is rather quite simple. From a Christian position, why is it that people go to "hell" (I say "hell", though semantically it is an incorrect word, but culturally is apporpriate here). Is not the answer that people go to hell because we have sinned? Then I can only ask - has a baby sinned? If not, then their relationship has not yet been broken and therefore have a spot in heaven waiting for them.

[Beckys_Mom]

Here's a good one in the vein of getting into heaven...

There was a church in this area (Irish Mountain, WV) that set aside a portion of their cemetery for "lost souls" way back in the corner of the grave yard on unconsecrated ground. This is where they buried babies who died before they could be baptised. So, according to them, these babies were unable to get into heaven.

What do you think about that?

Babies whether or not they are baptised.. they cannot sin, they are not capable of sinning.. So for anyone to say they will not get into heaven, do so out of ignorance

[libstaK]

I have to agree with PM and BM this is a ridiculous notion, there can be no corruption in a new born babe nor even a child. These graves were placed by the ignorant, righteous or fearful in the distant past and have no basis in scriptures.

[keven3]

The way I look it it is rather quite simple. From a Christian position, why is it that people go to "hell" (I say "hell", though semantically it is an incorrect word, but culturally is apporpriate here). Is not the answer that people go to hell because we have sinned? Then I can only ask - has a baby sinned? If not, then their relationship has not yet been broken and therefore have a spot in heaven waiting for them.

All post adam and eve humans, including innocent babies, have "original sin", which they must be cleared of to go to heaven, which is why catholics baptize them so young.

Obviously, if you do not believe in "original sin" then there is no reason why babies shouldn't go directly to heaven.

But it could be argued that since they were incapable to get baptized that they could be allowed into heaven because they did not sin otherwise and it was not their fault that they could not get baptized. I read something to this effect online in a catholic forum.

Keven

[Beckys_Mom]

All post adam and eve humans, including innocent babies, have "original sin", which they must be cleared of to go to heaven, which is why catholics baptize them so young.

Obviously, if you do not believe in "original sin" then there is no reason why babies shouldn't go directly to heaven.

But it could be argued that since they were incapable to get baptized that they could be allowed into heaven because they did not sin otherwise and it was not their fault that they could not get baptized. I read something to this effect online in a catholic forum.

I stopped believing in that type of nonsense from the age of 14 onwards... I no longer will hold the view of the Catholic church on that matter more so... Way I see it, who is anyone to judge who or what goes into heaven and when?/ ya know?

[+Paranoid Android]

All post adam and eve humans, including innocent babies, have "original sin", which they must be cleared of to go to heaven, which is why catholics baptize them so young.

Obviously, if you do not believe in "original sin" then there is no reason why babies shouldn't go directly to heaven.

But it could be argued that since they were incapable to get baptized that they could be allowed into heaven because they did not sin otherwise and it was not their fault that they could not get baptized. I read something to this effect online in a catholic forum.

Keven

I do indeed believe in Original Sin. However, I am not a Catholic. My impression of "Original Sin" is different to the Roman Catholic view. If you read Romans 5, I guess it can be contextually interpreted to be referring to a "stain" that every person the moment they are born has. However, I think when taken in conjunction with other passages the far more likely (and in the context of this passage alone, equally contextually appropriate) is to say that by original sin what is meant is that we are all born with the ability to sin and at the first opportunity we do indeed make that choice. However, the ability to choose requires a certain level of cognitive development, at which time a child has developed the skills required to definitely choose whether to go their own way or to go the way of God.

Of course, at exactly what age this may be is up for much debate. I've heard of some churches go as far as to give an exact "age of accountability" as if at this age a person can be considered to be accountable for their own actions, but I cannot find any specific passage to support this. But the general concepts still apply, and that when we do become old enough to make a choice (whatever age that may be), we do choose to disobey - hence why Christians believe in the necessity of Jesus.

~ Regards, PA

[Fate_happens]

I think the worst part would have been how the parents must have felt. I don't know a lot about the group of people who used the church, but they were obviously pretty devout. So, think about it. Losing your newborn baby coupled with the knowledge that that baby as no place in heaven? Must have been an awful feeling.

[Beckys_Mom]

I think the worst part would have been how the parents must have felt. I don't know a lot about the group of people who used the church, but they were obviously pretty devout. So, think about it. Losing your newborn baby coupled with the knowledge that that baby as no place in heaven? Must have been an awful feeling.

Only if you hold those beliefs... As for me, I believe my child is in heaven..I don't give a rap for what religious people think..What I believe is all that matters

[Fate_happens]

That's true, but I have a feeling that most of the people who used the church really did believe that.

[Star of the Sea]

The Catholic Church has changed it's stance on unbaptised babies and limbo. Also there is a special Mass now for babies that have not been baptised.

From the Catholic Catechism:

As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them," allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.” (CCC 1261)

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- To hope that babies who die without being baptized will go to heaven makes more sense than the idea that they go to limbo, says a group of papally appointed theologians...... cont.../ http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0605701.htm

[dalia]

I think "original sin" is a concept promoted by the Catholic Church. The idea does give the impression that we are all born with the blot of sin on our souls.

I believe we are all born with a sin nature, meaning, as you said we will naturally choose selfishly when we are old enough to make cognitive choices. As for the unborn, they truly have not had an opportunity to commit a sin and so, I believe, are pure.

Jesus himself said "suffer the children to come unto me."

BTW: Jesus, who never sinned, is the only one worthy to judge mankind.

[White Crane Feather]

Silliness. Why would god not simply let the child be born in another body at somepoint? Think about it. Any

Purpose a god would have in creating humanity would certainly revolve around those beings getting to make choices and experience existance..... Possibly to relate to one another and to reflect on god itself.

If I were god, it would be simple. The Paine of death would be for the experience of the survivors. A lesson in duality. We do note truelly apreciate life unless there is death.

The child especially a baby dosnt even know it's dead.... It probably gets a shot in another body..... Or it dosnt really matter because children are pure expressions of god anyway. No chance to develop an ego seperate from god, so the separation from god was never realized.....there never was a separate life from god, so death is meaningless.