Why no riots in America?

[George Ford]

Hi,

THIS EFFECTS ALL OF YOU AND ME.

Do Americans realise what will happen if a deal is not sorted out by end of play today? Monday is too late to sort it as it will take over 24 hours to put a plan, if any, into place. Once the US AAA status is lost, which is already happening behind the scenes (Standard & Poor's are likely to downgrade US debt very soon), then US Bonds lose value and other countries (and US bond holders) will panic sell.

It seems like the rest of the world knows about it but I do not see the outrage and anger in the form of protests on the streets as I do in Greece in a smaller but no less serious situation. Has the US government blinded their own people so much?

The government will have to increase the interest rate they offer to pay on Bonds to be able to sell more. Which means they lose more money. They need to sell more as they have no money and are losing a further $4billion EVERY DAY! right now.

They will run out of money as no banks from the rest of the world or within the USA will be able or willing to lend the USA (and banks based within the US) any more money.

Did you know the USA kind of went bankrupt back in May? They fiddled their own income and outgoings to make it look like they did not. They withheld (defaulted) on pension payments and other things to save money. So in the background there is even more money left owing that can not be paid.

You might think "Good, borrowing money is dumb!", but then the US government can not pay a huge percentage of their bills. Your talking cut backs of around 25% on all medicare and social security etc... That is when I predict to see people on the streets and looting etc.

Anyway. That's just in the short term. In the long term what do you think your soldiers abroad will do when they receive an IOU... Or your police, fire service, government clerks, FBI etc. (Pretty sure the CIA will be OK though ;O)

What will happen when you want to get a mortgage, a lot of your banks will not be there in a few months as they rely on a minimum payment the US government pays back each month to them. They will collapse and the government can not afford to bail them out by $1.00 let alone the billions they they would need. The banks will sack thousands of people as will many big companies that rely on a loan each month to cover their pay checks for their workers.

So you can't borrow money and any savings you might have could be lost 'overnight'. Potentially people could go to an ATM and be told there is no money available to take out.

So many people with mortgages and families will lose their job, there will be less or no jobs available and they can not borrow or potentially draw on their savings.

If you had a wife and children you loved that needed food and maybe medical care and you owned a gun, what would you do? (I hope nothing drastic, I just hope you have good friends and family to help out. But a nation of gun holders with not much food or police is a worrying prospect)

Every great civilisation reaches a breaking point. The most recent was the British Empire. I think America is about to get its own maybe.

UNDERSTAND THIS. Whatever your government/senate decides, it will only fix things in the short term. Borrowing/Lending and the 'creation of new money' was always at best a fancy variation of a Ponzie scheme IMO. (World wide, not just America)

Also, I have not gone into inflation which will see the value of the dollar drop in value so fast that it will become pointless to trade in them I think. Europe, China and India will stop trading in them pretty quickly and either a Chinese currency will be adopted world wide or possibly the Euro (although I doubt it because it is still a bit dodgy and will remain so until Greece and Ireland pull their trousers up)

If the American economy collapses, some, but not all of the world will follow. China will still come out of it bruised and bloodied but not defeated and I would imagine will recover within 2 years. India might even not see much of a hit at all. Europe which is currently unsteady may be the most seriously effected. The knock on effect may see smaller countries possibly fight for their own independence.

Regarding the title of this thread...

... After writing all of this, I do not think that taking to the streets will make any difference, not now. It is too late. In fact I think it would create a further financial burden to police it.

If I was wrong why have gold prices hit an all time high? (more then doubled in value since 2001) I think it is because rich people are getting nervous about if their millions will still be available in the bank soon, property value could massively drop in value when no lending for mortgages is available. So what's left if you do not have money in the bank or property worth much? Only thing left is art and gold maybe?.

Once China and India buy all the gold (China is increasing its gold reserve from 600 tons to 3000tons in on going buying manoeuvres) then what do you have left? I do not know. Maybe food? or Oil? Or some other precious metal?

All the above is what I think is happening from what I have read and seen on the news over the last few days. I could be so way off the mark that some one needs to kick my butt.

I hope you read it all and if you did, leave a post with your opinions, corrections, comments, thoughts and experiences.

Thank you for reading and lets all hope for some good luck and outside the box thinking from our 'leaders'..

(I do not think any one in America will ever starve, from what I see you have massive farms and huge mountains of 'waste' food every year since WWII. So at least you can eat.)

[SilverCougar]

Because it's too hot to riot...

(I'll edit in because I *KNOW* someone will miss the joke intent)

Edited July 30, 2011 by SilverCougar

[questionmark]

Because riots do not lead to anything. But maybe remembering who the hypocrites were come November 2012 will.

Edited July 30, 2011 by questionmark

[The Silver Thong]

There are no riots as of yet because most Americans still have there comfort items and food on the grociery shelves. Once those are gone look out. I predict a change and a big one, when probaly not for a bit as I will say the pub`s will allow the credit ceiling to be raised. There playing chicken and will pull a last min move to approve and then whine about it forever.

[The Silver Thong]

Because riots do not lead to anything. But maybe remembering who the hypocrites were come November 2012 will.

I think the word riot might be interchangable with revolt in this matter.

[George Ford]

There are no riots as of yet because most Americans still have there comfort items and food on the grociery shelves. Once those are gone look out. I predict a change and a big one, when probaly not for a bit as I will say the pub`s will allow the credit ceiling to be raised. There playing chicken and will pull a last min move to approve and then whine about it forever.

Hit the nail on the head there mate!

Most people will not realise until the poop hits the fan. Is the whole thing heavily reported on the news in the US? Or do they have Murdoch in charge of the news so no one knows anything except what they are allowed to know?

[AmpleFyre]

Wait, wait... You're not actually saying that there should be rioting, are you? I surely hope not.

From my experience, riots only cause more damage than good.

[The Silver Thong]

Wait, wait... You're not actually saying that there should be rioting, are you? I surely hope not.

From my experience, riots only cause more damage than good.

Nobody is saying to go riot, not yet but it will start with riots then escalate to a full out revolt. The U.S. is in deep trouble and most don`t get just how deep. I nor anyone should want to have a bleak forcast for the U.S. but it effects many more than the the self imposed superiority the U.S. has.

The U.S. economy has drivin world markets to the point that most have done well. If the U.S. losses it`s triple a credit rating the world economy will suffer.

Many are now investing in the Loonie edit aka loonie the Canadian dollar

Edited July 30, 2011 by The Silver Thong

[questionmark]

Nobody is saying to go riot, not yet but it will start with riots then escalate to a full out revolt. The U.S. is in deep trouble and most don`t get just how deep. I nor anyone should want to have a bleak forcast for the U.S. but it effects many more than the the self imposed superiority the U.S. has.

The U.S. economy has drivin world markets to the point that most have done well. If the U.S. losses it`s triple a credit rating the world economy will suffer.

Many are now investing in the Looney

Don't be so smug, if the US defaults Canada will be seen as one of the money save havens. That will change a few things for you guys.

[AmpleFyre]

Nobody is saying to go riot, not yet but it will start with riots then escalate to a full out revolt. The U.S. is in deep trouble and most don`t get just how deep. I nor anyone should want to have a bleak forcast for the U.S. but it effects many more than the the self imposed superiority the U.S. has.

The U.S. economy has drivin world markets to the point that most have done well. If the U.S. losses it`s triple a credit rating the world economy will suffer.

Many are now investing in the Looney

Eek, I really hate riots... they... disturb me.

I mean, I understand where you're all coming from, and I agree that changes need to be made. But in a riot... people are working on a mob mentality, making things escalate rapidly! It might start as a simple protest... but it can quickly turn to something violent. All it would require is one person to do something really stupid... and everyone else would join in.

[The Silver Thong]

Don't be so smug, if the US defaults Canada will be seen as one of the money save havens. That will change a few things for you guys.

Smug umm ok sure you actually don`t think Canada is worried about the U.S. situation. Canada and the U.S. have the largest trading relationship on the planet and you think I don`t see the reprecutions of a bad American dollar. I would rather have a weaker dollar but right now the Canadian dollor is worth 1.05 on the greenback. It sucks. No need to call me smug because I don`t pander to the American problem. It effects me as well might even effet you more.

[questionmark]

Smug umm ok sure you actually don`t think Canada is worried about the U.S. situation. Canada and the U.S. have the largest trading relationship on the planet and you think I don`t see the reprecutions of a bad American dollar. I would rather have a weaker dollar but right now the Canadian dollor is worth 1.05 on the greenback. It sucks. No need to call me smug because I don`t pander to the American problem. It effects me as well might even effet you more.

Take it easy, if heaven falls we all be under it

[Indiogene]

American democracy doesn't involve rioting, nor military coups like in third world countries with instable political systems. The US has a history of riots, mostly of the racial kind such as the 1917-19, 1941-43, 1965-67 and 1990-92 periods come to mind...expect the 2010's to be another generation of urban violence and civil unrest (notice a pattern?) I don't see any bread riots or massive anti-government demonstrations...yet, but keep praying for an economic recovery in addition to a federal government budget debt agreement.

[questionmark]

American democracy doesn't involve rioting, nor military coups like in third world countries with instable political systems. The US has a history of riots, mostly of the racial kind such as the 1917-19, 1941-43, 1965-67 and 1990-92 periods come to mind...expect the 2010's to be another generation of urban violence and civil unrest (notice a pattern?) I don't see any bread riots or massive anti-government demonstrations...yet, but keep praying for an economic recovery in addition to a federal government budget debt agreement.

You forgot the Chicago convention.

[Indiogene]

You forgot the Chicago convention.

Thanx, and the Haymarket Square riot and dynamite bombing in the 1880s, also in Chicago. I heard of the "chicago 8?" incident in 1968 as the worst anti-government protest in US history. Some cities like Chicago, Detroit and L.A. have a history of political violence and race rioting. My grandpa when he was a Marine stationed in Long Beach in May 1943 witnessed how sailors and soldiers in local bars attacked Hispanics wearing "zoot suits" the type of clothes identified themselves members of 'Pachuco' gangs. We weren't in war with Mexico nor Mexican-Americans were "enemy aliens", but was caused by wartime hysteria and the newspaper press sought a new "enemy" to stir up xenophobic feelings.

The American people tolerated corrupt hypocritical political games for so long, we should take action in the form of activism and learn to take better care of ourselves and each other (esp. me and my family are dependent on Social Security and Disability payment checks), whenever the governments in federal or state/county levels collapse into bankruptcy. Lower-middle class and near poor people lived in a state of semi-depression, but seems like it's everyone's turn: be it above-average income or the semi-wealthy, fearing more debt to pay in higher taxes after losing it all in the stock market.

I've witnessed the Cal. state government have no money in its coffers 2 or 3 years ago, building up from 1990s and early 2000s state budget crises, and even L.A. and Orange counties supposedly was the most prosperous counties in the country within Cal. and the USA, have no money in the mid 1990s (the OC) and again the mid 2000s (LA county with the city of L.A). But with sheer "luck of the draw" we as a family and a community...survived, because the way our economies are more developed and protected. When the US government defaults and Cal. slides back to mega-recession, you better prepare in an emergency not seen in a long time and we may adjust to a new economic reality no matter where you are.

Edited July 30, 2011 by DeMikeDe

[The Silver Thong]

Take it easy, if heaven falls we all be under it

Ok you three toed bee keeper (wish I had your job) You got my goat up a bit You have to say though that thr pub`s are going to allow the ceiling increase right.

[George Ford]

Wait, wait... You're not actually saying that there should be rioting, are you? I surely hope not.

From my experience, riots only cause more damage than good.

Read the full OP. I do not want there to be riots or civil unrest. But I foresee a not so great outcome. I was only thinking of the most recent example which was Greece:-

Notice the lack of violence. Love the tear gas bit. Hail to the 'MAN'!

[questionmark]

Read the full OP. I do not want there to be riots or civil unrest. But I foresee a not so great outcome. I was only thinking of the most recent example which was Greece:-

Notice the lack of violence. Love the tear gas bit. Hail to the 'MAN'!

In Greece you have riots because the Panathinaicos lost a football game, because a cop arrested a criminal popular in the hood, because a cop gave a taxi driver a ticket. Don't give those images a importance they do not have. Now, if the same scenes would happen in the US I would be worried.

[Indiogene]

The ironic thing about Greece is they're hailed to invented Democracy and after 3,500 years of civilization, their economic crises is the worst modern Europe has seen. Imagine what would happen if the USA goes through a sharp rise in demonstrations turning violent or confrontational? In a democratic society, people have the right to voice an opinion, either by petition letters and peaceful protest, and without resorting to mob action associated with a system lacking democratic principles. What's gonna happen when the US officially defaults: Suspension of the Constitution? That would do away with all the amendments guarantee freedoms of speech and assembly. Also the right to bear arms will be repealed, to restore law and order in an environment rife with civil unrest by an armed public.

Edited July 30, 2011 by DeMikeDe

[Damrod]

There is no uprising or marches because most simple Americans really have no clue who is right and who is wrong. We are told to trust our representatives and elected officials and one side says this and other side says that.

Most average folks don't understand deficit spending and the debt the country owes itself...I think most "get it" that we have bills to pay but that's about it. Still others question the rights "true" intention of fiscal responsibility and debt reduction...they are all for cutting domestic spending and hurting American citizens...but no defense cuts and no tax increases on the wealthy. Even to me, that seems tainted...if you are serious about lowering the debt, you need to cut unnecessary spending and collect more taxes....real simple.

It's playing out rather nasty...

The other reason there is no marching and shouting in the streets is partly because people are afraid to do it...Homeland security and the Neo-gestapo will haul you away and charge you with illegal public gathering...or maybe dissension...or treason...or terrorism...

Sad isn't it? The country the goes to war for the freedom of others has strict limits on freedoms of it's own citizens...irony at it's finest.

[questionmark]

The ironic thing about Greece is they're hailed to invented Democracy and after 3,500 years of civilization, their economic crises is the worst modern Europe has seen. Imagine what would happen if the USA goes through a sharp rise in demonstrations turning violent or confrontational? In a democratic society, people have the right to voice an opinion, either by petition letters and peaceful protest, and without resorting to mob action associated with a system lacking democratic principles. What's gonna happen when the US officially defaults: Suspension of the Constitution? That would do away with all the amendments guarantee freedoms of speech and assembly. Also the right to bear arms will be repealed, to restore law and order in an environment rife with civil unrest by an armed public.

The question is whether it defaults. Art 5 of the 14th and the Supreme Court in '35 made it pretty clear that it cannot. The national debt has to be paid. But that says nothing about pay for soldiers, federal employees and federal contractors.

[Legaia]

There is no uprising or marches because most simple Americans really have no clue who is right and who is wrong. We are told to trust our representatives and elected officials and one side says this and other side says that.

Most average folks don't understand deficit spending and the debt the country owes itself...I think most "get it" that we have bills to pay but that's about it. Still others question the rights "true" intention of fiscal responsibility and debt reduction...they are all for cutting domestic spending and hurting American citizens...but no defense cuts and no tax increases on the wealthy. Even to me, that seems tainted...if you are serious about lowering the debt, you need to cut unnecessary spending and collect more taxes....real simple.

It's playing out rather nasty...

The other reason there is no marching and shouting in the streets is partly because people are afraid to do it...Homeland security and the Neo-gestapo will haul you away and charge you with illegal public gathering...or maybe dissension...or treason...or terrorism...

Sad isn't it? The country the goes to war for the freedom of others has strict limits on freedoms of it's own citizens...irony at it's finest.

Really no irony there because the US never went to war for the 'freedom of others', that's what they will teach to children in primary school in years to come, as they taught me about wars past. And raising taxes does nothing to help the economy and lower the debt. You must cut spending and cut taxes. Lower taxes not only puts more money into the pockets of the average consumer to spend in the market, it helps small businesses to have more spending power to invest in their companies. The debt will take care of itself in due time if we only have responsible spending and low taxes. There is no other way, small businesses are the bread and butter of any good economy, to oppress them with even more taxes is an absurd idea, but unfortunately its going to happen anyway.

While I understand the thought that I have bolded, it is flawed. It is actually the exact recipe for a socialist society.

[George Ford]

"AND THE LAND OF THE FREEEE"

[BlindMessiah]

People aren't upset because for the most part they have no idea what's going on, aren't worried about it, or don't care.

[George Ford]

LOL, see what happens in Europe when the police beat down on a boy. Look what the policeman does with his 'night stick'. Then see the crowd reaction:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdxh-KaSBSg&feature=related

To be fair, most police are decent people with families and have respect for their fellow man, some douche bags unfortunately go and spoil it for everyone and give the rest of them a bad name that is hard to make good again.