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Riot In London


susieice

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To me, I laugh at the people who ride this off as some type of people just wanting to riot and I do have a lot of information coming out of the Airport where I tend to work and meet people from London and talk with them about these type of things every week I'm at work. Saying that I don't have a clue about what going on is ridiculous at best.

Also, someone can carry a gun for defensive prosperous if they have a permit for the weapon if I'm not mistaken. :rolleyes:

My link

Also, here is the Duggan cases were they say the only weapon that they found that was from Duggan gun was actually a police issued weapon.

The latest developments come as one community organiser suggested the handgun recovered was found in a sock and therefore not ready for use. It is likely to fuel anger on the streets of Tottenham and elsewhere in London if it provides evidence that officers were not under attack at the time they opened fire on Duggan.
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Over the past 14 years I've lived in Tottenham, Brixton, Bow and Walthamstow. This is not about race, nor really about police harassment. Its about poverty. Its no coincidence that the areas that have flared up contain some of the poorest areas of the country.

While I'm not defending the actions of the last couple of days, at all, you wouldn't find this in an area where the young population had a decent education and support in finding work. You just wouldn't. I'm willing to bet that the majority of those fighting left school young and have never worked.

This is what happens when people are given nothing to care about.

emma it's now kicking off in Southampton, Oxford, Uxbridge and Kingston amongst others...are those places really poverty stricken?

this has nothing to do with poverty...this is just mindless violence for the sake of it....that I, in a former life, would have been right at the front of.

simply put it's a buzz.

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You know, when I was that age I got into all sorts of trouble, I don't mind admitting that. I grew up on one of the roughest estates bordering North Kent and South London, non of us wanted to work, the idea of a menial job, day in day out was laughed at...we looked at people who did that and laughed at them...we all wanted the easy life, and when you get something for nothing it's a case of 'easy come and easy go' you don't respect it, or what anyone else has got....it was easy to get caught up in the excitement of living a life like this....and our 'hero's' weren't people you would look at today, they were the top criminals like Kenneth Noye etc...

A lot of the people I grew up with are still in and out of prison, I grew out of it pretty quickly, as did a few others...the difference between the ones that grew up and got a life and the ones that didn't wasn't money (as we were all skint)...it was because no matter what we got involved in there was always a line I wouldn't cross, a switch in my conscience brought on by how my parents brought me up....the ones that carried on living this crap life of prison and drugs were the ones with no structure in there lives whatsoever, and that came back to p***-poor parenting over generations.....the same happens today, it's just even bigger now...

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You know, when I was that age I got into all sorts of trouble, I don't mind admitting that. I grew up on one of the roughest estates bordering North Kent and South London, non of us wanted to work, the idea of a menial job, day in day out was laughed at...we looked at people who did that and laughed at them...we all wanted the easy life, and when you get something for nothing it's a case of 'easy come and easy go' you don't respect it, or what anyone else has got....it was easy to get caught up in the excitement of living a life like this....and our 'hero's' weren't people you would look at today, they were the top criminals like Kenneth Noye etc...

A lot of the people I grew up with are still in and out of prison, I grew out of it pretty quickly, as did a few others...the difference between the ones that grew up and got a life and the ones that didn't wasn't money (as we were all skint)...it was because no matter what we got involved in there was always a line I wouldn't cross, a switch in my conscience brought on by how my parents brought me up....the ones that carried on living this crap life of prison and drugs were the ones with no structure in there lives whatsoever, and that came back to p***-poor parenting over generations.....the same happens today, it's just even bigger now...

well said mate.

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To me, I laugh at the people who ride this off as some type of people just wanting to riot and I do have a lot of information coming out of the Airport where I tend to work and meet people from London and talk with them about these type of things every week I'm at work. Saying that I don't have a clue about what going on is ridiculous at best.

Also, someone can carry a gun for defensive prosperous if they have a permit for the weapon if I'm not mistaken. :rolleyes:

My link

Also, here is the Duggan cases were they say the only weapon that they found that was from Duggan gun was actually a police issued weapon.

If you knew anything about the case you'd know the officer that shot him never said he was shot at, or that Duggen fired a gun, he said he feared for his life....and given that non of us were there we don't know how Duggen acted to make him think that.

One thing I do know though is Duggen had a pretty fearsome reputation, and a volatile temper...he was known South of the river so God knows what he was like North of the river....the details of this won't come to light till December, which is probably when his full criminal history will be revealed....then your opinion on this known violent crack dealer might make a little more sense.

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To me, I laugh at the people who ride this off as some type of people just wanting to riot and I do have a lot of information coming out of the Airport where I tend to work and meet people from London and talk with them about these type of things every week I'm at work. Saying that I don't have a clue about what going on is ridiculous at best.

Also, someone can carry a gun for defensive prosperous if they have a permit for the weapon if I'm not mistaken. :rolleyes:

My link

Also, here is the Duggan cases were they say the only weapon that they found that was from Duggan gun was actually a police issued weapon.

no mate listen cos you're getting things twisted....the duggan thing kicked it off on saturday and i'm prepared to give those from tottenham a fair hearing....but these other incidents are nothing to do with it other than rioters saw that the police were scared to intervene and so realised they could get away with things too.

i don't know where you're getting your info but no-one over here is saying that the subsequent riots are anything to do with duggans death...even the black community leaders aren't saying that...they're condemning the riots just like everyone else....

this isn't american style black rage mate.

and btw - you can't carry ANY firearms in the UK unless you're a police firearms officer or a member of the military or intelligence services.

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Thanks for the background. Bit hard to figure out the antecedents of this, as far removed as most of us on this forum are from it. Scale of it is a bit surprising though.

I think the scale has been exaggerated by the media, probably not intentionally. Yes, its the worst riots in modern times, but had they had social networking tools in the 80s, I'm imagining the old Brixton riots would have turned out the same way, especially in the way its spread.

In terms of cause its pretty complicated. As I said, poverty and non-existent prospects is worse than people think. I'm middle class and well educated, yet when I've been unemployed in London, I've felt invisible to the establishment. Literally, no-one cares, and there is almost nowhere to go for help. Growing up in that environment, often as a generational problem, no wonder these people don't care about consequences.

There have been problems with police harassment; a controversial stop and search policy was abandoned recently, as it saw a high proportion of black people being targeted. It was similar "SUS" tactics in the 80s that lead to Brixton being devestated by riots.

At the end of the day, these kids simply don't care about an establishment that they feel invisible to. A policeman, a bank, a local shop; in their eyes its the same thing.

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If you knew anything about the case you'd know the officer that shot him never said he was shot at, or that Duggen fired a gun, he said he feared for his life....and given that non of us were there we don't know how Duggen acted to make him think that.

One thing I do know though is Duggen had a pretty fearsome reputation, and a volatile temper...he was known South of the river so God knows what he was like North of the river....the details of this won't come to light till December, which is probably when his full criminal history will be revealed....then your opinion on this known violent crack dealer might make a little more sense.

also worth adding that duggan was from one gang and these other thugs are from their sworn enemies so the idea that they're 'protesting' out of sympathy is laughable.

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also worth adding that duggan was from one gang and these other thugs are from their sworn enemies so the idea that they're 'protesting' out of sympathy is laughable.

Exactly, they see an opportunity to exploit a volatile situation and grab it (literally)....nothing more then that...

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just heard there is now little mobs of millwall & charlton all over eltham looking for 'rioters'...

there is gonna be carnage tonight.

Exactly, they see an opportunity to exploit a volatile situation and grab it (literally)....nothing more then that...

eh - what do we know mate - we just live here!

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just heard there is now little mobs of millwall & charlton all over eltham looking for 'rioters'...

there is gonna be carnage tonight.

eh - what do we know mate - we just live here!

Yep

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Staff at Birmingham Children's Hospital formed a 'human shield' as they barricaded themselves inside after rioters threatened to set it on fire - in an evil bid to 'win respect' from fellow thugs.

Police ordered an immediate lock-down of the hospital after rioters used Twitter to spread the word and encourage thugs to storm the wards just after 9pm last night. Gangs of rioters rounded on the hospital - which cares for some of Britain's sickest children - armed with broken bottles and knives hoping to 'out-riot' yobs running amok in London.

A hospital spokesman said: 'We were told by police to lock the hospital down. They asked us not to let anyone in or out until it was safe to do so. 'It is extremely dangerous and our main concern is for the welfare of our patients and staff.'

as the father of a kid who spends a lot of time in GOSH this is starting to get to me now.

i may be goin all charles bronson very shortly.

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Over the past 14 years I've lived in Tottenham, Brixton, Bow and Walthamstow. This is not about race, nor really about police harassment. Its about poverty. Its no coincidence that the areas that have flared up contain some of the poorest areas of the country.

While I'm not defending the actions of the last couple of days, at all, you wouldn't find this in an area where the young population had a decent education and support in finding work. You just wouldn't. I'm willing to bet that the majority of those fighting left school young and have never worked.

This is what happens when people are given nothing to care about.

Blackberries are not exactly cheap! The mob is mobile,moving from one area to the other, there is no telling now where they all come from. Even if the majority is poor,poverty does not necessarily blur the line between what is right and moral, and what is wrong and immoral, or at best, amoral. To take a certain course of action, to vandalizeand & rob, is a decision that is consciously made by an individual, in this case,who doesn't realize that freedom and responsibility are two sides of the same coin. If the youngest arrested was 11 years old, and the majority are teenagers,I doubt that it is all about angst for their future! I was astounded yesterday to hear a BBC anchorman say that the majority of the rioters are 14, 15 years old who are worried about not finding a job, and disenfranchised by the….anyone that has been around teenagers would know that at this age, evaluating the long term effects of a government policy is not exactly a priority. Teenagers live more at the 'here & now'. The local corner shop is not part of the exploitative establishment, nor the houses on the local street! This is more an adrenalin'rush', blasé morality, and frankly, ineffective policing. I just can'tunderstand how 16000 riot policemen are unable to control a mob of 200-500 teens!

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To me, I laugh at the people who ride this off as some type of people just wanting to riot and I do have a lot of information coming out of the Airport where I tend to work and meet people from London and talk with them about these type of things every week I'm at work. Saying that I don't have a clue about what going on is ridiculous at best.

Also, someone can carry a gun for defensive prosperous if they have a permit for the weapon if I'm not mistaken. :rolleyes:

My link

Also, here is the Duggan cases were they say the only weapon that they found that was from Duggan gun was actually a police issued weapon.

Firearms Act 1968

See sections 16-19 and 21

You may also notice that it's "suggested" that it was found in a sock. There's nothing official been released regarding that yet.

Also, there was a peaceful "protest" where the family and friends of Duggan went to the police asking for more information, that in my books is not a riot. What's happening now has little to do with that and the rioters are simply using Duggan's death as an excuse.

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as the father of a kid who spends a lot of time in GOSH this is starting to get to me now.

i may be goin all charles bronson very shortly.

If it happens again tonight, I don't think you will need to do anything, as there will be a snapping point....there is a hell of a lot going on behind the scenes, some of which you have already pointed out!

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if this doesn't calm down soon i'm hearing rumours that various football mobs are goin to enter the fray to protect certain areas...bermondsey for example.

they will do a far better job than the police (not that I find blame with the police themselves as we are unsure of their orders and resources).

Being a West Ham fan i've been hearing the same, but only from them, sure there are others thinking the same though...sounds good on the surface, they've certainly got the balls to protect an area, but I suspect they'll just hamper the police, allowing the real culprits to mingle away into the crowd...

Hey Skyscanner, I am a Millwall supporter, never knew you were West Ham :tu: , anyhow I agree if either our boys or yours turn up even slightly mob handed to go for the rioters there will be carnage, and I am confident it wont be the hooligans that will come out hurting. Maybe hooligans will finally have a use rather than just the nuisance to society they currently are.

just heard there is now little mobs of millwall & charlton all over eltham looking for 'rioters'...there is gonna be carnage tonight.eh - what do we know mate - we just live here!

Yes carnage is probably the best word to use in this case....

put it this way I saw many sickening images of police lines being pelted with everything and the police just standing there taking it. Whether this was because of direct instructions, fear, lack of numbers etc it was sad to see and I felt for the police who are people with families like us. Anyhow, lets see the rioters do the same to the hooligan mobs should they turn up.

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As ahs been pointed out, theres no requirement for any political or racial motives. As Jeremy Paxman mentioned in his excellent book The English, A portrait of a People, street insurrection in England is less often to do with politics and more to do with an innate readiness to trade punches.

There have always been riots of this kind in England, hell, thats how football started! "Tis no revel unless there be some fightings!" Theres always a readiness to booze and fight. Not amongst everyone of course...despite a readiness to break a nose or a window for the hell of it you stand less chance of being murdered of violently assaulted here than anywhere else in the civilized world.

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i may be goin all charles bronson very shortly.

Hey Dekker, you wont be alone my friend.

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Hey Skyscanner, I am a Millwall supporter, never knew you were West Ham :tu: , anyhow I agree if either our boys or yours turn up even slightly mob handed to go for the rioters there will be carnage, and I am confident it wont be the hooligans that will come out hurting. Maybe hooligans will finally have a use rather than just the nuisance to society they currently are.

If you were here right now quillius you could knock me down with a feather....I would never have guessed you were Millwall in a million years LOL :tu: ....reminds of a game I went to in the mid nineties - Tottenham at home, left Upton Park and jumped on the tube, jumped off the tube at Victoria and walked straight into about 15 Tottenham fans, there was only me and my mate shaun, so we legged it to the train, jumped on, ran to the front and ran into a first class carriage, shut the door behind us and sat down to catch our breath....there was two lads sitting there, they asked if we were ok, to which we said 'yeah, just got out run by a load of Tottenham'...to which they replied 'not your day lads is it - we're Millwall'....we looked at each other for a few seconds then all burst out laughing at the irony of that situation.....had a real good laugh with them on the way home... :)

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If you were here right now quillius you could knock me down with a feather....I would never have guessed you were Millwall in a million years LOL :tu: ....reminds of a game I went to in the mid nineties - Tottenham at home, left Upton Park and jumped on the tube, jumped off the tube at Victoria and walked straight into about 15 Tottenham fans, there was only me and my mate shaun, so we legged it to the train, jumped on, ran to the front and ran into a first class carriage, shut the door behind us and sat down to catch our breath....there was two lads sitting there, they asked if we were ok, to which we said 'yeah, just got out run by a load of Tottenham'...to which they replied 'not your day lads is it - we're Millwall'....we looked at each other for a few seconds then all burst out laughing at the irony of that situation.....had a real good laugh with them on the way home... :)

:lol:

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If you were here right now quillius you could knock me down with a feather....I would never have guessed you were Millwall in a million years LOL :tu: ....reminds of a game I went to in the mid nineties - Tottenham at home, left Upton Park and jumped on the tube, jumped off the tube at Victoria and walked straight into about 15 Tottenham fans, there was only me and my mate shaun, so we legged it to the train, jumped on, ran to the front and ran into a first class carriage, shut the door behind us and sat down to catch our breath....there was two lads sitting there, they asked if we were ok, to which we said 'yeah, just got out run by a load of Tottenham'...to which they replied 'not your day lads is it - we're Millwall'....we looked at each other for a few seconds then all burst out laughing at the irony of that situation.....had a real good laugh with them on the way home... :)

lol, trust me I had a similar thought when you said you were West Ham, I thought no, really??? Just goes to show doesnt it mate....at least we are all grown up now :)

great story by the way. :tu:

not sure where you live now buddy but do take care. I am not a million miles away from certain hotspots, but the baseball bat is not leaving my side whilst I go from work to home.

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lol, trust me I had a similar thought when you said you were West Ham, I thought no, really??? Just goes to show doesnt it mate....at least we are all grown up now :)

great story by the way. :tu:

not sure where you live now buddy but do take care. I am not a million miles away from certain hotspots, but the baseball bat is not leaving my side whilst I go from work to home.

Trouble hasn't made it's way to where I am at the moment...my wife has gone to stay at my parents, the whole thing worries her silly but i'm staying put...i'm not to worried about my car etc, that's what I pay insurance for, but my observatory and the gear in it has taken years and many hundreds of hours to put together, i'm not letting anyone get anywhere near it....so i'm staying put and ready for whatever turns up.

Take care of you and yours mate, hope it stays trouble free for you.

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Trouble hasn't made it's way to where I am at the moment...my wife has gone to stay at my parents, the whole thing worries her silly but i'm staying put...i'm not to worried about my car etc, that's what I pay insurance for, but my observatory and the gear in it has taken years and many hundreds of hours to put together, i'm not letting anyone get anywhere near it....so i'm staying put and ready for whatever turns up.

Take care of you and yours mate, hope it stays trouble free for you.

If the wife is out of the way that helps IMO.

I hope all stays safe for you mate.

Thanks for the well wishes.....I assure you I too will be more than ready. :tu:

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Wonderful, heard a few things that it might be kicking off in Manchester tonight. Apparently Salford Precinct has already been closed down. :|

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Wonderful, heard a few things that it might be kicking off in Manchester tonight. Apparently Salford Precinct has already been closed down. :|

Well if you're in Manchester then you know what is happening, to me its a rumour.

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