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riots sparked by police beating 16yr old girl


Little Fish

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he was an eyewitness to the events, he described precisely what happened, he says the police set upon the girl with batons. if you want to believe that that did not happen then you are denying the evidence.

you do know that eyewitness are used by courts as evidence right? yet you say without evidence that this is not evidence.

How many people were there - how many camera phones were there - you have one person saying she was set upon in an unprovoked attack, one piece of footage showing nothing but some loud mouth shouting "it's a ******* girl" repeatedly......that isn't evidence, and would be laughed out of court - so find some evidence and your view will have some weight to it!

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He read it in the Guardian. That bastion of liberal values & promoter left wing ideology.

what I read in the link provided by another poster (a guardian article) was that the girl was a friend of the guy shot by the police. if it is true that she was a friend of the guy killed by the police then it is very unlikely she would have taken a champagne bottle to a demonstration for the reasons I already stated, don't you agree?
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what I read in the link provided by another poster (a guardian article) was that the girl was a friend of the guy shot by the police. if it is true that she was a friend of the guy killed by the police then it is very unlikely she would have taken a champagne bottle to a demonstration for the reasons I already stated, don't you agree?

Could you provide more evidence?

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what I read in the link provided by another poster (a guardian article) was that the girl was a friend of the guy shot by the police. if it is true that she was a friend of the guy killed by the police then it is very unlikely she would have taken a champagne bottle to a demonstration for the reasons I already stated, don't you agree?

If she was the friends of an armed drug dealer, maybe she had more than just a champagne bottle.
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name='Little Fish' timestamp='1313083435' post='4018389']

the eyewitness provides a detailed and precise account. I have not seen any reliable evidence to contradict what he says. it was reported on the bbc, so "nameless, faceless on the net" is not correct.

Ok, what's his name and what does he look like?

the eyewitness says he has been there since 5 o clock, so all we know is that it happened after 5 o clock. why do you intimate that the protest was not peaceful? does that not say a lot about yourself that you believe with no evidence that it was a violent protest.

The protest had turned violent before dark, in your video (that shows nothing) it was dark.

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The protest had turned violent before dark, in your video (that shows nothing) it was dark.

the second video from the original post shows a blue sky, it looks like dusk. reports state violence started after dark.

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Some people now do celebrate the life of a person that recently died.....so a champagne bottle is plausible and if she was a close friend of the deceased,considering Mr Duggans profession i wouldn't think champagne would be beyond her financial reach.

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the second video from the original post shows a blue sky, it looks like dusk. reports state violence started after dark.

No it was before dark, i watched it on the news at around 4pm.

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if you want to get it straight, you need to look at the evidence and leave the hearsay aside.

is it plausible she had a champagne bottle? seems fishy to me. not the sort of thing a young girl from tottenham would have in her possession. not the sort of thing she would take to a demonstration after her friend (reported by the guardian newspaper) has been killed by the police, and not the sort of thing that would be recognised so specifically.

is there a first hand report of a "champagne" bottle? I can't find one.

You really don't know Tottenham do you? "champagne", more likely Lambrini, is exactly the sort of thing 16 year old girls in London drink. It's hardly beyond imagination for her to take a drink with her whilst she goes to rile up the police.

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We have riots in here in Berlin every year on May 1, and there are plenty of champagne bottles used as weapons. They are heavy, cheap, and can be bought, or even found, everywhere. And this champagne is not the posh stuff from France, but secco, prosecco or any other cheap sparkling wine that teenagers, especially females, drink to get squashed all over Europe.

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No it was before dark, i watched it on the news at around 4pm.

the protest started at 5pm, are you saying that violence occurred before the protest?

maybe you are confusing what you saw with one of the following days.

here is another account confirming the eyewitness in the first video:

no mention of throwing bottles, champagne or otherwise.

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here is another account confirming the eyewitness in the first video:

no mention of throwing bottles, champagne or otherwise.

But there is no mention of beating the girl either.

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But there is no mention of beating the girl either.

"as far as I am concerned the protest started quite peaceful, there was 150 people oputside the police station and they were quite patient all they wanted was a few answers as to what was happening, the police completely ignored them treating them with contempt even at that point they did not retaliate, and then a young 16 year old approximately went to approach them just to, again, roughly find out what's going on, and they just took some evasive action by pushing her and then drawing their battons and that's when the people started to retaliate."

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"[...]and they just took some evasive action by pushing her and then drawing their battons and that's when the people started to retaliate."

That is not beating.

It is also of interested, how she approached, and talked to the police. They obviously felt intimidated.

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do you remember:

You have no right for demonstrating in the UK? No demonstrations are ever permitted? And if they do permit one, police is just beating it down? Somehow, it's hard to believe.

do you still find it hard to believe?

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Yes, I still do. There is no mention of beating the girl in your last eyewitness' report.

Are you from the UK, actually? Or have you ever visited? I would like to know where the idea of no permitted protests comes from.

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That is not beating.

eyewitness from the first video of the first post:

"what actually ignited everything was a young female who approached the police standing line and she was set upon by police with batons...the police charged towards her and started hitting her with their batons and this made everyone go up in uproar"

It is also of interested, how she approached, and talked to the police.

the eyewitness gave the answer:

"a young 16 year old approximately went to approach them just to, again, roughly find out what's going on"

eyewitness in the first video of the first post also gave the answer:

" "she just approached the police saying the community demanded answers and justice must prevail and they just set upon her""

They obviously felt intimidated.

this is a 16 year old girl, one in number.

they are the riot police clad in armour with battons and shields, many in number.

they felt intimidated? can you explain how they would be obviously intimidated?

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Please, don't relate my answers to the wrong report! In the last report was no mention of beating the girl, only pushing and drawing batons.

Question still is how she did that. I doubt she was like: "Hello officers, would you be so kind and tell me what is going on?" There might have been aggressive gestures, words, or tone. But this is all speculation. We do not know, yet you manage to take position and claim everything seems clear.

And yes, a 16 year old girl can be intimidating. But I cannot answer your question as how that was in this case. I was not there. What I am doing is listening to the eyewitness' reports, and analyse them, while trying to remain unbiased. And they all tell a slightly different story, so I simply do not know what happened. I just cannot believe that the police starts beating on a girl in front of 100-150 witnesses for no reason. At least not in Britain.

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I just cannot believe that the police starts beating on a girl in front of 100-150 witnesses for no reason. At least not in Britain.
what you are stating is that you are forming your opinion based on your beliefs, rather than forming your opinion based on the facts.

what would it take to change your belief?

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Apparently there was not bottle, Erix. She just calmly approached the police and asked whats going on. That's when they started beating her violently. :rolleyes:

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what you are stating is that you are forming your opinion based on your beliefs, rather than forming your opinion based on the facts.

what would it take to change your belief?

A proper video of it would be best. I'd be OK with pictures as well. But at least some reports telling the same story.

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eyewitness from the first video of the first post:

"what actually ignited everything was a young female who approached the police standing line and she was set upon by police with batons...the police charged towards her and started hitting her with their batons and this made everyone go up in uproar"

the eyewitness gave the answer:

"a young 16 year old approximately went to approach them just to, again, roughly find out what's going on"

eyewitness in the first video of the first post also gave the answer:

" "she just approached the police saying the community demanded answers and justice must prevail and they just set upon her""

this is a 16 year old girl, one in number.

they are the riot police clad in armour with battons and shields, many in number.

they felt intimidated? can you explain how they would be obviously intimidated?

Maybe if you take into account the fact that she was not just the only person outside the police station at that time....she was one of over a hundred.Would you not be intimidated and on edge faced with such a crowd .?...

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Apparently there was not bottle,

at the moment that is rumour and hearsay, no first hand witness to this. the two witnesses we have make no mention of a bottle, or throwing any object.
She just calmly
no one suggested she was calm, not being calm is not reason to be beaten with battons.
approached the police and asked whats going on.
the two witnesses corroborate each other on this.
That's when they started beating her violently.
that seems to be the case according to the eyewitnesses.
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