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Years of liberal dogma spawned a generation


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Britain is a country which has always been dominated by class politics. The ruling elite of both left and right have been through the same selective colleges and established the same cosy arrangements between the world of speculative finance and politics. This has led to over a century of industrial decline as those in power have favoured the Market and the Banking sector as ways to make quick money.

Real meaningful employment has steadily declined and there is a whole series of generations which have no prospect of gaining meaningful employment. They see the huge disparity between what they have and what the elite have, and they understand that those elites are looking out for their own interests and not theirs. These socially excluded people know that they will probably never have a job, a decent home, or the things paraded before them and that they will probably spend time behind bars at some point in their lives. So whats to lose in going out and doing a bit of looting.

We live in a fundamentally broken society where many have no prospect of meaningful involvement in a productive secure society - and people are waking up to the fact that their political representatives have deliberately made our society that way and have no intention of changing it. They realise that the rich want to blame anyone but themselves for the state the country is in.

Our rich elite should be worried as situation's like our's have historically led to many of them losing their head to a pike. It can happen again if the fundamental problems with our society are not addressed.

It doesn't have to be this way. I have just returned from Germany and none of the social tensions endemic in Britain are apparent there. This is because the Elite in Germany realise that their best interests are served by having a strong and strategically managed economy which serves the interests of the overwhelming majority of the population. They survived a 10year recession by careful planning and without any of the upheaval which Britain is currently experiencing.

Time is running out for Britain to act as a nation and not as a parasitic elite feeding off the poverty and misery of its poor.

Br Cornelius

I always thought you were a liberal BR, but I never thought you were a communist.

How can you say "Real meaningful employment has steadily declined and there is a whole series of generations which have no prospect of gaining meaningful employment"?

Where are you getting your facts from? Surely there are many, many employment opertunities, which if you are sucessful at, you get rewarded by your employer.

Are you seriously suggesting taking all the money from the rich and giving it to the poor like some sort of Robin Hood type figure?

I forgot who said it but here is a quote you might wish to keep in mind "What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving"

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I always thought you were a liberal BR, but I never thought you were a communist.

How can you say "Real meaningful employment has steadily declined and there is a whole series of generations which have no prospect of gaining meaningful employment"?

Where are you getting your facts from? Surely there are many, many employment opertunities, which if you are sucessful at, you get rewarded by your employer.

Are you seriously suggesting taking all the money from the rich and giving it to the poor like some sort of Robin Hood type figure?

I forgot who said it but here is a quote you might wish to keep in mind "What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving"

The growth areas of employment within the UK have been predominantly within the low paid service sector which offer very short term contracts and little job security. Not everyone can do degree level jobs (the main path to middle class income levels) and without a degree your chances of long term secure tenure are extremely low along with your earning potential.

The measure of a countries stability is the disparity between rich and poor income. The most stable countries have a difference of 6:1, the UK is at least 18:1. This a simple index which indicates the likelyhood of social unrest. The UK ranks very low on this index and so intermittent social unrest is a statistical certainty. It is as true for Britain as it is for the Middle East.

I gave an example of a capitalist country which has managed its wealth to the benefit of the majority of the country. Compare Germany to the UK and you will see that it can be done without resorting to "Communism" which is a self evidently failed system.

Britain is a very unpleasant place to live and that is why I left it. A country which favours those of wealth above all others can never be a successful one in the long term.

Br Cornelius

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The measure of a countries stability is the disparity between rich and poor income. The most stable countries have a difference of 6:1, the UK is at least 18:1. This a simple index which indicates the likelyhood of social unrest.

I gave an example of a capitalist country which has managed its wealth to the benefit of the majority of the country. Compare Germany to the UK and you will see that it can be done without resorting to "Communism" which is a self evidently failed system.

Britain is a very unpleasant place to live and that is why I left it. A country which favours those of wealth above all others can never be a successful one in the long term.Br Cornelius

Compare German youth problems (neo-nazi's murdering Turks) with British youth problems (riot to steal a TV or iPod) and you can see they aren't the slightest bit similar.

All countries favour the rich, politically, as they provide donations for the political parties, and jobs for the average person. And check out America, with all the political lobby groups for the rich's interests, are you telling me there will be riots throughout the USA (that aren't about ice hockey)??

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Compare German youth problems (neo-nazi's murdering Turks) with British youth problems (riot to steal a TV or iPod) and you can see they aren't the slightest bit similar.

All countries favour the rich, politically, as they provide donations for the political parties, and jobs for the average person. And check out America, with all the political lobby groups for the rich's interests, are you telling me there will be riots throughout the USA (that aren't about ice hockey)??

The level of social violence in Germany is lower than in the UK. I just spent 10 days in Berlin and went to some of the poorest parts of town and never once felt anything but safe and secure. I never once saw crowds of drunken youth roaming the streets looking for a fight (a common sight in many English towns on most nights). Every city in England has large areas which are effectively no go areas. Racially motivated violence is very common in the UK.

And yes I would predict widespread social unrest through America any day. It has a worse set of problems than the UK, and a healthy supply of firearms to fuel a bit of redistributive violence. Tragic that both the UK and the US have squandered their social capital in an orgy of greedy self interest.

Br Cornelius

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Compare German youth problems (neo-nazi's murdering Turks) with British youth problems (riot to steal a TV or iPod) and you can see they aren't the slightest bit similar.

You seem to be forgetting the yobs firing hand guns at a police helicopter, and into the distance at unarmed police... Lets NOT forget the murder of the 3 Asians in Birmingham (?) intentionally run down by a car.

@BRCornelius... I did the same thing, left with my family 5+ years ago - and will never go back - not whilst the Lunatics run the Asylum :no:

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I thought it was appropriate that Tony Blair crawled out of the woodwork to share his opions on the matter, afterall this was the 'new labour' generation born & educated (lol) under his watch.

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I always thought you were a liberal BR, but I never thought you were a communist.

How can you say "Real meaningful employment has steadily declined and there is a whole series of generations which have no prospect of gaining meaningful employment"?

Where are you getting your facts from? Surely there are many, many employment opertunities, which if you are sucessful at, you get rewarded by your employer.

Are you seriously suggesting taking all the money from the rich and giving it to the poor like some sort of Robin Hood type figure?

I forgot who said it but here is a quote you might wish to keep in mind "What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving"

yes thats right anyone who wants to see the gap between the haves and have nots shrink is a dirty communist.what is wrong with people being rewarded for the work they do at a rate that allows them

to live.we have 2.5 million unemployed and .5 million jobs so the other 2 million must be lazy scum with no work ethic. people are not rewarded by there employer ,to employer's people are just pawns

to earn profits for people who already have more wealth than they could possibly spend.we live in a world where STUFF is everything and community and people matter little.

we need to rebalance our ethics based on community values ,reward for work and care for our fellow humans .if this doesnt happen them public disorder will increase.

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I thought it was appropriate that Tony Blair crawled out of the woodwork to share his opions on the matter, afterall this was the 'new labour' generation born & educated (lol) under his watch.

oh and the thatcher generation of youth training scemes and 40% unemployment in half the country was paradise ?

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Compare German youth problems (neo-nazi's murdering Turks) with British youth problems (riot to steal a TV or iPod) and you can see they aren't the slightest bit similar.

All countries favour the rich, politically, as they provide donations for the political parties, and jobs for the average person. And check out America, with all the political lobby groups for the rich's interests, are you telling me there will be riots throughout the USA (that aren't about ice hockey)??

i lived in germany for 8 years compared to the uk it is a utopian paradise .you can walk though the most german citys without the risk of being shot/stabbed or your wife being gang raped for a giggle .

you cant say that for most uk citys the uk is a poverty stricken shithole the only people who like it are multinational bankers .everone else wants it burned with nukes to put it out of its misery.

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yes thats right anyone who wants to see the gap between the haves and have nots shrink is a dirty communist.what is wrong with people being rewarded for the work they do at a rate that allows them

to live.we have 2.5 million unemployed and .5 million jobs so the other 2 million must be lazy scum with no work ethic. people are not rewarded by there employer ,to employer's people are just pawns

to earn profits for people who already have more wealth than they could possibly spend.we live in a world where STUFF is everything and community and people matter little.

we need to rebalance our ethics based on community values ,reward for work and care for our fellow humans .if this doesnt happen them public disorder will increase.

Redistribution of wealth is the key communist catch phrase. That is what you are asking for when you say "what is wrong with people being rewarded for the work they do at a rate that allows them to live"

If you can't live off the job you are doing, don't do it. If noone can live off the wages they are paying, noone will do the job and hence the wages will go up.

I left university without a degree and with a $14,000 student loan. 5 years later im a superviser in a well paid industry, with a company car, phone etc. That didn't happen because i sat on my ass at home with my hand out for some money. I worked up from the bottom, and hopefully im still on my way up.

Why do you have .5 million jobs on the market when there are 2.5 mil unemployed? i would suggest that they are lazy. i will repeat that "What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving" and how is that "fair"

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i lived in germany for 8 years compared to the uk it is a utopian paradise .you can walk though the most german citys without the risk of being shot/stabbed or your wife being gang raped for a giggle .

you cant say that for most uk citys the uk is a poverty stricken shithole the only people who like it are multinational bankers .everone else wants it burned with nukes to put it out of its misery.

The voilence is in housing estate areas, where people recieve money from the government without working. You really think giving them more money will make everything safer?

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The voilence is in housing estate areas, where people recieve money from the government without working. You really think giving them more money will make everything safer?

Money is not the issue here. I agree that increasing handouts will not solve the problems.

Creating jobs which pay a living wage to families will solve the problems. that involves a national strategy for industrial development with regional development banks to allow industries to prosper.

A national wage policy will help address the wage disparity issue without recourse to "Communism".

None of this will come from the present Government which is still shouting the Neo-Liberal war cry, and new labour showed that they were nothing but Tory-lite.

I see no prospect of the issues been addressed - just another round of blame been misdirected to the poor victims of a system designed to keep investment bankers fleecing the country dry.

Br Cornelius

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i lived in germany for 8 years compared to the uk it is a utopian paradise .you can walk though the most german citys without the risk of being shot/stabbed or your wife being gang raped for a giggle .

you cant say that for most uk citys the uk is a poverty stricken shithole the only people who like it are multinational bankers .everone else wants it burned with nukes to put it out of its misery.

...& immigrants.(apparently)

Wow you really do hate this country don't you, still, that does seem to be true of most left wing leaning people.

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...& immigrants.(apparently)

Wow you really do hate this country don't you, still, that does seem to be true of most left wing leaning people.

I wonder how much you right wingers would love this country if you didn't have people working their lives away for nothing so people like you could sit back and look down at them and think you're really "smart" because you have people to look down on? :rolleyes:

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I wonder how much you right wingers would love this country if you didn't have people working their lives away for nothing so people like you could sit back and look down at them and think you're really "smart" because you have people to look down on? :rolleyes:

Ha ha..you wishy washy liberal types know how to raise a smile. "damn those rich toffs making us poor people work our fingers to the bone for no money while they live in there big mansions..bah damn you to hell" Where do you get your ideas from? Catherine Cookson novels?

Presumably you think this is modern britain:-

For your information i'm an average guy with a family on an average wage, but i'm of an age that has let me see several shades of government come & go, & none have been that impressive, but without doubt the worst by far have been 'New labour' experiment.

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Money is not the issue here. I agree that increasing handouts will not solve the problems.

Creating jobs which pay a living wage to families will solve the problems. that involves a national strategy for industrial development with regional development banks to allow industries to prosper.A national wage policy will help address the wage disparity issue without recourse to "Communism".

None of this will come from the present Government which is still shouting the Neo-Liberal war cry, and new labour showed that they were nothing but Tory-lite.

I see no prospect of the issues been addressed - just another round of blame been misdirected to the poor victims of a system designed to keep investment bankers fleecing the country dry.

Br Cornelius

By government subsidies? Paid for by higher taxes on the rich?

That will cause two things 1) Massive inflation leading to a cycle of pay increases and price increases 2) The rich leaving and paying taxes in other countries.

How will that help?

I suggest setting a time limit on benefits. After that, if a person cannot survive on their own, they can move into boarding houses and be supplied meals and beds. If thats not motivation enough to get a job and work hard, then nothing will be. We have the same problem in my country with inter-generational dependants on the benefit, and young girls see getting pregnant in these areas as an "employment opertunity" (true quote from a social worker).

When half the people of a country don't work because they will get looked after by the other half, what happens when the other half don't want to work?

Edit: Your idea might work if you stopped benefits altogether and gave the tax cuts to the lowest paid, but it would still discourage people to try to succeed/improve their position, as they are already paid a (subsidised) high wage

Edited by Professor Buzzkill
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By government subsidies? Paid for by higher taxes on the rich?

That will cause two things 1) Massive inflation leading to a cycle of pay increases and price increases 2) The rich leaving and paying taxes in other countries.

How will that help?

I suggest setting a time limit on benefits. After that, if a person cannot survive on their own, they can move into boarding houses and be supplied meals and beds. If thats not motivation enough to get a job and work hard, then nothing will be. We have the same problem in my country with inter-generational dependants on the benefit, and young girls see getting pregnant in these areas as an "employment opertunity" (true quote from a social worker).

When half the people of a country don't work because they will get looked after by the other half, what happens when the other half don't want to work?

Edit: Your idea might work if you stopped benefits altogether and gave the tax cuts to the lowest paid, but it would still discourage people to try to succeed/improve their position, as they are already paid a (subsidised) high wage

You labour under the illusion that poor people have the power to create their own jobs. The jobs do not exist for the people who are rioting so they have no alternative. My suggestion is pure and simple - create an economy which serves the needs of the population rather than the people with capitol who have no interest in society.

Br Cornelius

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You labour under the illusion that poor people have the power to create their own jobs. The jobs do not exist for the people who are rioting so they have no alternative. My suggestion is pure and simple - create an economy which serves the needs of the population rather than the people with capitol who have no interest in society.

Br Cornelius

The jobs are out there, you just have to look. If theres no work where they live, do what many people have to do and move to areas where there is work.

You seem to be labouring under the impression that those with money don't have a heart. In my experiance its the other way around. I went to school with one of the sons of the richest man in my country. It was just a normal school, nothing flash at all (had rugby fields built over an old landfill). This man gives over 15% of his annual income to charities and has his own foundation (which the son has now taken over) which provides much needed help for those less fortunate (including helping those people start their own businesses, altogether it adds up to hundreds of millions of dollars annually). But that is how charity should work, it shouldn't be enforced, it should be a choice. I choose the charity i give money to(IHC), But i am also forced give money to many people who don't want to work through my taxes

Edited by Professor Buzzkill
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By government subsidies? Paid for by higher taxes on the rich?

That will cause two things 1) Massive inflation leading to a cycle of pay increases and price increases 2) The rich leaving and paying taxes in other countries.

How will that help?

I suggest setting a time limit on benefits. After that, if a person cannot survive on their own, they can move into boarding houses and be supplied meals and beds. If thats not motivation enough to get a job and work hard, then nothing will be. We have the same problem in my country with inter-generational dependants on the benefit, and young girls see getting pregnant in these areas as an "employment opertunity" (true quote from a social worker).

When half the people of a country don't work because they will get looked after by the other half, what happens when the other half don't want to work?

Edit: Your idea might work if you stopped benefits altogether and gave the tax cuts to the lowest paid, but it would still discourage people to try to succeed/improve their position, as they are already paid a (subsidised) high wage

I agree with the setting of time limits on benefits but we also have to look at the time limits that are set. In the US if you have a child and you are married only one person has to work until the child goes to school. So the married couple wait until the one child is ready to go to school and then have another child and so on and so forth. This is where I don't get the attack on single mothers. All I see are the married couples taking advantage of the system. Now he has 2 or more children and an adult as dependents and getting benefits for all. Why is that better than those few, and I believe it is the few woman, who keep having babies to get welfare that haunt you people?

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The jobs are out there, you just have to look. If theres no work where they live, do what many people have to do and move to areas where there is work.

You seem to be labouring under the impression that those with money don't have a heart. In my experiance its the other way around. I went to school with one of the sons of the richest man in my country. It was just a normal school, nothing flash at all (had rugby fields built over an old landfill). This man gives over 15% of his annual income to charities and has his own foundation (which the son has now taken over) which provides much needed help for those less fortunate (including helping those people start their own businesses, altogether it adds up to hundreds of millions of dollars annually). But that is how charity should work, it shouldn't be enforced, it should be a choice. I choose the charity i give money to(IHC), But i am also forced give money to many people who don't want to work through my taxes

So you are claiming that the unemployment rate would simply disappear if people moved to take up jobs.

Apart from the fact that that is just wishful thinking, why should whole communites up sticks and move because every industry wants to be in the South East. How will they afford to move to take up these fantasy jobs.

As for the rich and corporation been a bunch of big hearted philanthropists :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Br Cornelius

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The jobs are out there, you just have to look. If theres no work where they live, do what many people have to do and move to areas where there is work.

You seem to be labouring under the impression that those with money don't have a heart. In my experiance its the other way around. I went to school with one of the sons of the richest man in my country. It was just a normal school, nothing flash at all (had rugby fields built over an old landfill). This man gives over 15% of his annual income to charities and has his own foundation (which the son has now taken over) which provides much needed help for those less fortunate (including helping those people start their own businesses, altogether it adds up to hundreds of millions of dollars annually). But that is how charity should work, it shouldn't be enforced, it should be a choice. I choose the charity i give money to(IHC), But i am also forced give money to many people who don't want to work through my taxes

So you are claiming that the unemployment rate would simply disappear if people moved to take up jobs.

Apart from the fact that that is just wishful thinking, why should whole communites up sticks and move because every industry wants to be in the South East. How will they afford to move to take up these fantasy jobs.

As for the rich and corporation been a bunch of big hearted philanthropists :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Br Cornelius

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So you are claiming that the unemployment rate would simply disappear if people moved to take up jobs.

Apart from the fact that that is just wishful thinking, why should whole communites up sticks and move because every industry wants to be in the South East. How will they afford to move to take up these fantasy jobs.

As for the rich and corporation been a bunch of big hearted philanthropists :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Br Cornelius

People always have easy answers to other people's problems. :rolleyes:

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So you are claiming that the unemployment rate would simply disappear if people moved to take up jobs.

Apart from the fact that that is just wishful thinking, why should whole communites up sticks and move because every industry wants to be in the South East. How will they afford to move to take up these fantasy jobs.

As for the rich and corporation been a bunch of big hearted philanthropists :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Br Cornelius

what is so wrong with moving to where work can be found? - how would they afford to move?, like everyone else work for it, earn it or live a life on benefits. but dont moan if you choose the last option. whats wrong with this country far too many expect the state to stand in and provide everything on a plate.

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People always have easy answers to other people's problems. :rolleyes:

I have had to move for work, it's what any self respecting adult would do when it's required.

My advice to these people with "problems" is stop being a victum, put on your big boy pants, and get on with it. Life isn't fair, theres no point moaning about it

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I have had to move for work, it's what any self respecting adult would do when it's required.

My advice to these people with "problems" is stop being a victum, put on your big boy pants, and get on with it. Life isn't fair, theres no point moaning about it

So why are you moaning? It's not quite as easy as just moving. You need money to move and you need a job to make money.

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