Years of liberal dogma spawned a generation

[F3SS]

It doesn't make sense to me either. Why would they? I have no answers to any of those questions but it happened exactly the way I just told you and no I'm not lying. And I have no idea what the laws were then compared to what they are now. I don't know if the man made a complaint and said that we were together, because we were. I know he was very angry at them all. I'm not sure if it was because she was pregnant and they couldn't do anything to her. They had no place to put her. I do know she had been caught enough times, not sure how many that is or was, that she would have gone to jail. I do know they all knew and these productive members of society and my thieving sister stole my babysitting money. It does sound unreal doesn't it? And I don't think these kind of stories are that unusual in American courts. Don't know about yours. My point was that I think you make your conclusions about the leaches and the productive members of society not by life experiences like I do but by listening to other people in some form or another.

Ok fine well never see eye to eye... I think we've said enough

[quillius]

The reason I originally posted on this thread was the title saying it was years of liberal dogma and then the immediate responses blaming single mothers. It is not the single mothers.

I have another story to tell you. When I was 15 I stayed with one of my oldest sisters for the summer and I had a babysitting job for the summer saving for school clothes. I went shopping one day with another sister and her son. He was 3 or 4 years old. She was married, pregnant with her second and either 19 or 20. She was shoplifting using her son. She put stuff in the cart and then put her coat and her sons coat on top of the stuff and sat her son on top of that. She did this frequently with some of my other sisters. She got caught. It was the second time she got caught in the store we were in. When we got to the police station she blamed it on me. The cop bullied me into signing a confession. The guy from the store was there and he was screaming at him that it wasn't me. He had been watching her. The cop ignored him. When I went to court with another sister the guy from the store was there and he was yelling at both lawyers in the courtroom. My lawyer, who I assume was a public defender, told me what the judge was going to ask and told me what to say when asked. Both lawyers and the judge knew I was innocent but they just went right on and convicted me and I had to pay a fine with my babysitting money. Why do you think they did that? My sister was married and they had been on welfare since she had the first and still was through her 3rd and years after that. Why would they do that? That was the summer of 1975. It is not the single mothers. If it were the single mothers they would not be running around screaming "we gotta get those single mothers"! They don't want to stop those checks coming in. The politicians want those checks as much as the welfare recipients and it has nothing to do with being a liberal. What kind of people do this ****?

So the one and only witness (needed to prosecute) says it wasnt you. So on what basis did the court convict you? CCtv footage? otherwise no case? I hope you can clarify...

Also the court cannot impose a fine on you because of your age....at least from what I know of the law.

hopefully you can clarify

[conspiracybeliever]

So the one and only witness (needed to prosecute) says it wasnt you. So on what basis did the court convict you? CCtv footage? otherwise no case? I hope you can clarify...

Also the court cannot impose a fine on you because of your age....at least from what I know of the law.

hopefully you can clarify

No I can't clarify, I can only tell you what happened. I was 15. This was 1975 and I'm talking about the US. You know the difference between people like you and the people you are talking about is that you insist that people, like the people "working" in these courts, have rules and they abide by these rules. They don't. I've realized that by reading this forum. You people think it is the job of these courts and our system, and I'm speaking of the US but yours seems just as or almost as messed up, is trying to create problems rather than solve them. You think they are locking up the leaches of society? They protect these leaches because to do away with these leaches they do away with the free money coming into their states which help to create their paychecks and jobs. They protected this welfare queen. When we got back to her house from the police station her husband was laying on the couch watching tv. All he was concerned about was lunch. The perfect family. I can tell you stories about children being abused and molested or raped with continued calls to social services, one from a teacher, and social services did nothing to protect these children. But we're all lying right? Your systems are all about helping the leaches like these right? You're such a bunch of clueless morons. And the sad fact is you'll be raising other clueless morons who take advantage of the people you choose to call leaches of society. And those people are women and children. THE SINGLE MOTHER!!! It's the easiest target. And it's all about the money and numbers.

[quillius]

No I can't clarify, I can only tell you what happened. I was 15. This was 1975 and I'm talking about the US. You know the difference between people like you and the people you are talking about is that you insist that people, like the people "working" in these courts, have rules and they abide by these rules. They don't. I've realized that by reading this forum. You people think it is the job of these courts and our system, and I'm speaking of the US but yours seems just as or almost as messed up, is trying to create problems rather than solve them. You think they are locking up the leaches of society? They protect these leaches because to do away with these leaches they do away with the free money coming into their states which help to create their paychecks and jobs. They protected this welfare queen. When we got back to her house from the police station her husband was laying on the couch watching tv. All he was concerned about was lunch. The perfect family. I can tell you stories about children being abused and molested or raped with continued calls to social services, one from a teacher, and social services did nothing to protect these children. But we're all lying right? Your systems are all about helping the leaches like these right? You're such a bunch of clueless morons. And the sad fact is you'll be raising other clueless morons who take advantage of the people you choose to call leaches of society. And those people are women and children. THE SINGLE MOTHER!!! It's the easiest target. And it's all about the money and numbers.

says it all really.

[Guest]

says it all really.

Says what exactly. If your been ironic you need to use some emoticons cos otherwise it sounds as if your agreeing.

Br Cornelius

[quillius]

Says what exactly. If your been ironic you need to use some emoticons cos otherwise it sounds as if your agreeing.

Br Cornelius

I didnt see the need for emoticons, seeing as her comments included 'You're such a bunch of clueless morons' .....

[Guest]

I didnt see the need for emoticons, seeing as her comments included 'You're such a bunch of clueless morons' .....

I may disagree with her emotions but I think she raises some very valid points.

Br Cornelius

[quillius]

I may disagree with her emotions but I think she raises some very valid points.

Br Cornelius

that may well be true Cornelius, but personally I find it difficult to have an honest debate, when being called a moron simply for asking for clarity on a few points. If her response focused on it being the USA instead of UK and that it was 1975 then that would have explained the inability to clarify as requested.

[arglebargle]

Well, here in Norway the years of liberal 'dogma' has made sure a lot of people can get the help they need to actually get an education rather than flip burgers and sweep floros until their retirement age.

Take myself for example, I tried studying hard but things went horribly wrong and because of my environment I almost died and had a nervous breakdown. So I took a year off from school to do some thinking about what I wanted to do, and in this time I did not work, I did live off of welfare - and still do as a matter of fact - but after the year was over, I had reinvested my interest in education and work, so I applied for a spot studying for the "Cisco Cirtified Network Associate" and while I didn't pass my first exam, I came extremely close, and I'm redoing it soon. (I needed 804 points to pass, out of a maximum of 1000 points. There were 50 questions, and I scored 79,9% which put me half a percentage point short of passing first time). After I pass my CCNA I'll move on to the next level, and when that one is done I'll be getting myself a job, and making decent money - and paying my taxes. Without that kind of welfare help to keep me going and let me focus on my studies without working 4 jobs to keep myself afloat (and by the way work is extremely hard to come by in this part of the country, the unemployment levels are ridiculously high, because the only industry we have had here for the past 30 years is tourism) which would have meant I may never pass my exams and get a proper job. And it could easily stress me out to the point I could have a relapse, one I may not survive next time around.

So I for one am extremely grateful for the help I've received and I'm glad others have that opportunity too. I know it is helping me to become a productive member of society, and I'd be paying a lot more in taxes from a proper wage compared to a ****ty one, so over the long term it's a smart investment as well, since they'd earn more by helping me now. And I'm not alone in my situation, I know the same applies to others. And even the ones that simply do not get anywhere despite help, well I think they deserve a decent life too, we as a society can carry them if need be.

[conspiracybeliever]

that may well be true Cornelius, but personally I find it difficult to have an honest debate, when being called a moron simply for asking for clarity on a few points. If her response focused on it being the USA instead of UK and that it was 1975 then that would have explained the inability to clarify as requested.

Oh I'm sorry I find it difficult to have an honest debate when people are calling me a liar.

You want to hear another? When I divorced which was 1988 my divorce agreement was written that because my ex-husband was paying child support he got to claim my daughter as a dependant. My daughter lived with me. He had vistitation rights which were some weekends but she lived with me. She was 3 when we divorced. Twelve years later when she 15 I was filling out my tax return and I had a question so I called the IRS. I explained my situation to the woman I was speaking to and she asked if he was paying more than half the support of the child which he wasn't of course, not even close to it ever. She told me he was cheating me and it was not even legal. I told her it was in our divorce agreement and she said they would not honor it because it wasn't legal. Two lawyers and a judge were in that courtroom again. One lawyer who I paid and this is what I got. Get something for nothing!? I don't even know how to get what I pay for!

Edit to correct the 1998 to 1988

Edited September 8, 2011 by conspiracybeliever

[Professor Buzzkill]

Oh I'm sorry I find it difficult to have an honest debate when people are calling me a liar.

You want to hear another? When I divorced which was 1988 my divorce agreement was written that because my ex-husband was paying child support he got to claim my daughter as a dependant. My daughter lived with me. He had vistitation rights which were some weekends but she lived with me. She was 3 when we divorced. Twelve years later when she 15 I was filling out my tax return and I had a question so I called the IRS. I explained my situation to the woman I was speaking to and she asked if he was paying more than half the support of the child which he wasn't of course, not even close to it ever. She told me he was cheating me and it was not even legal. I told her it was in our divorce agreement and she said they would not honor it because it wasn't legal. Two lawyers and a judge were in that courtroom again. One lawyer who I paid and this is what I got. Get something for nothing!? I don't even know how to get what I pay for!

Edit to correct the 1998 to 1988

I'm sorry to hear you are a victim of circumstance, with no input into your own situation. It must be hard to live a life that other people control entirely. I am happy to give you all of my income to make up for it.

[Professor Buzzkill]

Well, here in Norway the years of liberal 'dogma' has made sure a lot of people can get the help they need to actually get an education rather than flip burgers and sweep floros until their retirement age.

Take myself for example, I tried studying hard but things went horribly wrong and because of my environment I almost died and had a nervous breakdown. So I took a year off from school to do some thinking about what I wanted to do, and in this time I did not work, I did live off of welfare - and still do as a matter of fact - but after the year was over, I had reinvested my interest in education and work, so I applied for a spot studying for the "Cisco Cirtified Network Associate" and while I didn't pass my first exam, I came extremely close, and I'm redoing it soon. (I needed 804 points to pass, out of a maximum of 1000 points. There were 50 questions, and I scored 79,9% which put me half a percentage point short of passing first time). After I pass my CCNA I'll move on to the next level, and when that one is done I'll be getting myself a job, and making decent money - and paying my taxes. Without that kind of welfare help to keep me going and let me focus on my studies without working 4 jobs to keep myself afloat (and by the way work is extremely hard to come by in this part of the country, the unemployment levels are ridiculously high, because the only industry we have had here for the past 30 years is tourism) which would have meant I may never pass my exams and get a proper job. And it could easily stress me out to the point I could have a relapse, one I may not survive next time around.

So I for one am extremely grateful for the help I've received and I'm glad others have that opportunity too. I know it is helping me to become a productive member of society, and I'd be paying a lot more in taxes from a proper wage compared to a ****ty one, so over the long term it's a smart investment as well, since they'd earn more by helping me now. And I'm not alone in my situation, I know the same applies to others. And even the ones that simply do not get anywhere despite help, well I think they deserve a decent life too, we as a society can carry them if need be.

Coming out of school 8 years ago, i had a nervious break down. Everyone is telling you that you should have a plan, and know where you want to be in 10 years time. I didn't and ended up failing a university business course i had no real interest in taking. I was 15 grand in debt, but found a trade that was employing and worked for minimum wage to learn a new skill (in the fire protection industry). With the effort put in i am now the youngest project manager in any of the companies i have worked for and now make a decent income and hae no debt.

There are many roads to success, but i have heard that countries like Norway and Sweden prefer the "soft option" and have even classifed sane but educationally challeged (not passing secondary school) people as mentally handicapped, so that they can recieve a benefit without going on the unemployment statistics.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Professor Buzzkill

[conspiracybeliever]

I'm sorry to hear you are a victim of circumstance, with no input into your own situation. It must be hard to live a life that other people control entirely. I am happy to give you all of my income to make up for it.

Really? Because I thought you were trying to steal more from me. I thought that's what all the "It's the single mother!" **** was about. You know, people who can't seem to take any responsibility for their own situations so they blame the weakest of society? I think of people like you as the too big to fail juniors. You can't control anything that controls you so look down the ladder and decide it's best to rape women and children and throw them overboard. The easiest target is always the best right? People like you shouldn't have to put too much effort into life. After all you were born white right? Oh and with both parents!

[quillius]

Oh I'm sorry I find it difficult to have an honest debate when people are calling me a liar.

You want to hear another? When I divorced which was 1988 my divorce agreement was written that because my ex-husband was paying child support he got to claim my daughter as a dependant. My daughter lived with me. He had vistitation rights which were some weekends but she lived with me. She was 3 when we divorced. Twelve years later when she 15 I was filling out my tax return and I had a question so I called the IRS. I explained my situation to the woman I was speaking to and she asked if he was paying more than half the support of the child which he wasn't of course, not even close to it ever. She told me he was cheating me and it was not even legal. I told her it was in our divorce agreement and she said they would not honor it because it wasn't legal. Two lawyers and a judge were in that courtroom again. One lawyer who I paid and this is what I got. Get something for nothing!? I don't even know how to get what I pay for!

Edit to correct the 1998 to 1988

and you will find it even more difficult to show where I called you a liar! (hint: its because I never did) but good luck with that one.

[quillius]

Really? Because I thought you were trying to steal more from me. I thought that's what all the "It's the single mother!" **** was about. You know, people who can't seem to take any responsibility for their own situations so they blame the weakest of society? I think of people like you as the too big to fail juniors. You can't control anything that controls you so look down the ladder and decide it's best to rape women and children and throw them overboard. The easiest target is always the best right? People like you shouldn't have to put too much effort into life. After all you were born white right? Oh and with both parents!

glad we are getting to the crux of it now....serious chip on your shoulder exaggerated by the bitter nature that comes shining through loud and clear. At least that is the way I interpret your posts.

is that because I am looking down the ladder as alluded to?

[conspiracybeliever]

glad we are getting to the crux of it now....serious chip on your shoulder exaggerated by the bitter nature that comes shining through loud and clear. At least that is the way I interpret your posts.

is that because I am looking down the ladder as alluded to?

Sorry I guess it was the guy before you that used the word liar. You said:

So the one and only witness (needed to prosecute) says it wasnt you. So on what basis did the court convict you? CCtv footage? otherwise no case? I hope you can clarify...

Also the court cannot impose a fine on you because of your age....at least from what I know of the law.

hopefully you can clarify

As I said no I can't clarify it. I was 15. All I can tell you is it all happened. And yes I probably do have a serious chip on my shoulder. I think I have good reason to be p***ed.

[F3SS]

Sorry I guess it was the guy before you that used the word liar. You said:

So the one and only witness (needed to prosecute) says it wasnt you. So on what basis did the court convict you? CCtv footage? otherwise no case? I hope you can clarify...

Also the court cannot impose a fine on you because of your age....at least from what I know of the law.

hopefully you can clarify

As I said no I can't clarify it. I was 15. All I can tell you is it all happened. And yes I probably do have a serious chip on my shoulder. I think I have good reason to be p***ed.

See I have a hard time figuring out if your lying or babbling incoherent thoughts. Let me say that at the very least you seem to have trouble conveying stories and rational thoughts into typed words that make sense.

[Michelle]

As I said no I can't clarify it. I was 15. All I can tell you is it all happened. And yes I probably do have a serious chip on my shoulder. I think I have good reason to be p***ed.

If I were you I think I'd get the court records, that by law you have access to, and find out exactly what happened and why. Legally they can't do what you say they did. I think that is what people are having trouble with...and no offense, but you may not have understood or remember correctly at fifteen.

[F3SS]

If I were you I think I'd get the court records, that by law you have access to, and find out exactly what happened and why. Legally they can't do what you say they did. I think that is what people are having trouble with...and no offense, but you may not have understood or remember correctly at fifteen.

Yes lawyers, cops and judges determined to pin a petty theft on an innocent 15yo regardless of eye witness testimony. Sounds like a corrupt murder case you see in a movie where if someone isn't blamed the lawyer loses respect, the cop gets fired and the judge is outcasted. If it's true, then what a waste of tax payer dollars.

[Michelle]

Yes lawyers, cops and judges determined to pin a petty theft on an innocent 15yo regardless of eye witness testimony. Sounds like a corrupt murder case you see in a movie where if someone isn't blamed the lawyer loses respect, the cop gets fired and the judge is outcasted. If it's true, then what a waste of tax payer dollars.

If nothing else maybe she can get closure.

[conspiracybeliever]

I have no interest in getting court records if they still exist. It was 1975. These things happened. You don't wonder why they do these kinds of things? Do you think maybe they didn't want to break up the "perfect families"? The welfare queen and her family were a big welfare check for thsi state for years. I think that is what they were protecting. All those courts are interested in is getting the single mothers. They're trying to work.

[F3SS]

You are officially a loon. If the courts are out to get the single mothers then that implies you were a 15 yo single mother. Nobody has any idea what you have been taking about with your single mother gripe. I still haven't figured out what in the world you are trying to tell us, neither does anyone else.

[conspiracybeliever]

If I were you I think I'd get the court records, that by law you have access to, and find out exactly what happened and why. Legally they can't do what you say they did. I think that is what people are having trouble with...and no offense, but you may not have understood or remember correctly at fifteen.

I remember correctly. It happened teh way I said it did. Legally they couldn't do it? Legally they couldn't put in my divorce agreement that my ex husband could claim my daughter as a dependant when she was in my custody but they did it. You act like the courts are about the law!

[F3SS]

Give it up people. Conspiracy believer is angry, bitter and irrational. She only makes sense to herself.

[conspiracybeliever]

Give it up people. Conspiracy believer is angry, bitter and irrational. She only makes sense to herself.

I see you are enjoying reaping all the benefits of women and children being raped so you can sit in a better place. You knwo I went walking with a friend a couple of weeks ago in this town that all of those welfare families that I was speaking of. Years ago it was slums. You would never know that today. It is completely rebuilt. It is amazing what they have done with it. It is beautiful. Wonder where the money for that came from.