Nufc1966 Posted August 22, 2011 #51 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I have never used a ouija board but I am very interested in them. I know many will recommend that I don't use one, but I'm ignorant and tend only to learn my lessons from experience. Anyhow my wife won't let me use one in the house and rightfully so, we have a young child & neither of us want anything to happen to her. Nevertheless I would still like to experience it, so I have a 2 questions: 1:Do online ouija boards work and if so are there any recommendations on ones to use. 2.When I do eventually use a real one (honoring my wife's wishes & keeping it out of the house) I would rather not use it alone. Unfortunately I just moved back to my hometown after being gone for nearly a decade and don't really know anybody in to this kind of stuff so I was wondering if there was any resources that would help me find any people who use one with me or at the least sit in on a few sessions. The first rule of Ouija board club is.. dont talk about ouija board club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layna Posted August 22, 2011 #52 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) 1) If one move the object the other would not interfere to stop it simple logic, no need for both or more to move their hands. 2) Now that's a scientific evidence.... People would reproduce any kind of bs flowing around the internet, an internet video/photo/post now days has zero credibility, you just need to take a huge leap of faith to believe those people, and i seriously wonder why your thirst for the paranormal block any of your critical faculties. 1) Ouija is MUCH more effective with more than 1 person. With just 1, it moves extremely slowly, if at all. Why wouldn't the other 'stop it'? Why wouldn't their movements conflict? How is it decided who's muscle movements override the other? 2) Please read what I said. The Internet as we know it was years to come when I had my experience -- I certainly had no preconceived ideas of what to expect during my experience. -- at least none that paralleled the zozo experiences have read about. ps - my common sense is firmly in place, thank you. And don't 'seriously wonder' about my critical faculties too hard, there -- it's probably more productive to worry about your own. Edited August 22, 2011 by Layna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Only Posted August 22, 2011 #53 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) 1) Ouija is MUCH more effective with more than 1 person. With just 1, it moves extremely slowly, if at all. Why wouldn't the other 'stop it'? Why wouldn't their movements conflict? How is it decided who's muscle movements override the other? From what I've read, the idea is that the person with the stronger feeling "drives" the planchette, and the other "rides". Edited August 22, 2011 by Jerry Only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layna Posted August 22, 2011 #54 Share Posted August 22, 2011 From what I've read, the idea is that the person with the stronger feeling "drives" the planchette, and the other "rides". Okay, so how does that work in relation to the Ideomotor effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafterman Posted August 22, 2011 #55 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Okay, so how does that work in relation to the Ideomotor effect? In the exact same way. Fairly obvious I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layna Posted August 22, 2011 #56 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) In the exact same way. Fairly obvious I would think. Being that it's 'so obvious', can you explain, then, to someone who's struggling with the application? Also, can you please link to the scientific reference that supports the application? Edited August 22, 2011 by Layna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beenieman Posted August 23, 2011 #57 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Being that it's 'so obvious', can you explain, then, to someone who's struggling with the application? Also, can you please link to the scientific reference that supports the application? You actually listen to these people. The people who are screaming about "ideomotor effect" don't even know how the ideomotor effect works. They're just repeating the same nonsense scientist are saying. None of them have a mind of their own. What ever science tells them they believe it wholeheartedly without testing it for themselves. I challenge any of the persons who say the ouija is ran by ideomotor effect to show me how this ideomotor works. First, we should define what the ideomotor involves with respect to the ouija board then we shall go from them. I am up for the challenge to prove the inaccuracy of the ideomotor effect with respect to the ouija board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldethyl Posted August 23, 2011 #58 Share Posted August 23, 2011 While I appreciate good solid science and pretty much base my perceptions on such -- I am highly sceptical of the ideomotor effect being the root of the Ouija experience. I am so close to an atheist it's not funny, and my ouija expience is the only thing -- yes, only thing -- that is keeping me firmly in the agnostic camp. There is no way that the ideomotor effect is an acceptable explanation to MY experience....no way, no how. No offense, but if you're atheist, why would a demon need to come before you and it lead you to sway you to agnosticism? Instead of recruiting your soul for the devil, his plan kinda backfired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranormalcy Posted August 23, 2011 #59 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Keosen, I appreciate your passionate championing of rationality, but your criticizing other people's mental faculties is not acceptable. That sort of talk is not acceptable on UM by anyone, directed toward anyone. This is a forum for the discussion of ideas and experiences, cooperation and sharing and mutual learning, not slighting others for their beliefs or thoughts. There are things here and in many threads I don't agree with, and there is nothing wrong with "writing someone off" as beyond being able to reason (from a skeptical or believer standpoint either one), if that's YOUR opinion of them, but that is NOT an excuse to publicly call names or question intelligence or otherwise make personal attacks. I post in these Ouija threads a lot, as an experienced user myself at one time, and by now my opinion is likely known, and as I said, I disagree with a lot of what is said. I do agree that I personally would like to know more about the ideomotor effect and how it applies to more than one person, but that doesn't automatically invalidate it, but I agree more needs to be known on it to give a better explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Only Posted August 23, 2011 #60 Share Posted August 23, 2011 You actually listen to these people. The people who are screaming about "ideomotor effect" don't even know how the ideomotor effect works. They're just repeating the same nonsense scientist are saying. None of them have a mind of their own. What ever science tells them they believe it wholeheartedly without testing it for themselves. That's being dramatic and unfair to people who think an ideomotor effect is related to the Ouija board phenomenon. I think most who believe ideomotor action is at play can understand the basic idea (keep in mind, they can only go off of what they read and uunderstand; and are not scientists). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio traveler Posted August 23, 2011 #61 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Everyone has varying degrees of personal body/spirit energy. I can easily see how a dominating one could be in control of the planchette while the others are ( as already mentioned ), along for the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyuk Posted August 23, 2011 #62 Share Posted August 23, 2011 It's still interesting that the answer to someone that says "The board is just a toy,i tried and nothing happened" is "You're not doing right" So if i start a blog with title "How to fly" Describing step by step how you can fly on the air by saying a magic spell while holding two bananas on your hands, the logical answer to anyone that will accuse me for being a charlatan would be "you're not doing right" I'm start losing faith in humanity.... Oh darn it. Now i know why i cant manage to fly I havent been holding the bananas Does it matter which way round the bananas are?? Im not sure if i should hold them with the stalk ends pointing in or out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafterman Posted August 23, 2011 #63 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Being that it's 'so obvious', can you explain, then, to someone who's struggling with the application? Also, can you please link to the scientific reference that supports the application? Well let's put it this way, since "driving" and "riding" failed to resonate with you, how about - one person is "pitching" and the other person is "catching". How's that? As to scientific evidence, you can use google just as eaily as I can. This board is absolutely incredible. A fully understood psychological effect is completely discarded in favor of woo based on a NOVELTY TOY that has been discredited so many times in the past 100+ years that it's almost laughable. But yet I'm challenged to PROVE the psychological effect. Whatever. How about you PROVE that ouija does work? And then do it blindfolded. Bet ya can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Only Posted August 23, 2011 #64 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Everyone has varying degrees of personal body/spirit energy. I can easily see how a dominating one could be in control of the planchette while the others are ( as already mentioned ), along for the ride. Would be funny to see 2 combating "drivers" of the planchette. "This damn thing isn't making any sense!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormkeeper Posted August 23, 2011 #65 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Sir, there's a reason why no means "no". Not by expirence but lack of understanding. No one knows what going to happen and if it happens, the load on you. There is this nature call to order in balance. Good vs. Bad, night vs. day, live vs. dead. just a example pal. Get it now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layna Posted August 24, 2011 #66 Share Posted August 24, 2011 No offense, but if you're atheist, why would a demon need to come before you and it lead you to sway you to agnosticism? Instead of recruiting your soul for the devil, his plan kinda backfired. Sorry, I never said it was a 'demon'. I only said it was 'something' that was not explained by the ideometer effect. Not sure where you got that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layna Posted August 24, 2011 #67 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Everyone has varying degrees of personal body/spirit energy. I can easily see how a dominating one could be in control of the planchette while the others are ( as already mentioned ), along for the ride. I appreciate that you can easily see that, but I would love to see an explanation for how this is so, as it pertains to the ideometer effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Layna Posted August 24, 2011 #68 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Well let's put it this way, since "driving" and "riding" failed to resonate with you, how about - one person is "pitching" and the other person is "catching". How's that? As to scientific evidence, you can use google just as eaily as I can. This board is absolutely incredible. A fully understood psychological effect is completely discarded in favor of woo based on a NOVELTY TOY that has been discredited so many times in the past 100+ years that it's almost laughable. But yet I'm challenged to PROVE the psychological effect. Whatever. How about you PROVE that ouija does work? And then do it blindfolded. Bet ya can't. Sorry that you misunderstand. I'm not asking you to PROVE anything. As you say, the ideometer effect has been scientifically proven. I am asking how it applies to 2 people's simultaneous use of Ouija and asking for references to what you are stating in this thread. You state, and believe, that one person 'drives' and one 'rides. I am asking for reference because I have found nothing in my research on the ideometer effect that explains the effect in relation to two people's physiology. If you can't post references to support this idea, I would suggest that it's just your opinion and not based on any solid science. Edited August 24, 2011 by Layna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranormalcy Posted August 24, 2011 #69 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I have contacted a number of organizations, asking for specifics on exactly this question - how ideomotor works with more than one person, and hope at least one will get back to me with salient information; when they do, this is the absolute first place I will share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Only Posted August 24, 2011 #70 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) I appreciate that you can easily see that, but I would love to see an explanation for how this is so, as it pertains to the ideometer effect. This may be along the lines of what you're looking for. Mirror Neurons Like it says, mirror neurons are found in areas of the brain of humans, such as the premotor cortex, the part of the brain relevant to the planning, selection and execution of actions. It's a part of the cerebral cortex, where motor actions are performed. Other interesting area where mirror neuron activity is found in humans is the parietal lobe, which is used in sight and manipulation of objects. Edited August 24, 2011 by Jerry Only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keosen Posted August 24, 2011 #71 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I am asking how it applies to 2 people's simultaneous I have contacted a number of organizations, asking for specifics on exactly this question - how ideomotor works with more than one person, Why it should happen to both? If A and B have their hands on planchette and A start moving the planchette will B try to stop the planchette by applying force? Your argument makes no sense sense or i just misunderstood it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio traveler Posted August 24, 2011 #72 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I appreciate that you can easily see that, but I would love to see an explanation for how this is so, as it pertains to the ideometer effect. I wish that I could. But I honestly can't explain it. The thing clearly does spell out things. But if multiple people are participating, and only one question is being asked, only one answer can be received. Who's body/spirit energy is the one providing the answer ? Is it the one who asked the question ? Or is it always the one with the domination energy ? I honestly don't know ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keosen Posted August 24, 2011 #73 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I wish that I could. But I honestly can't explain it. The thing clearly does spell out things. But if multiple people are participating, and only one question is being asked, only one answer can be received. Who's body/spirit energy is the one providing the answer ? Is it the one who asked the question ? Or is it always the one with the domination energy ? I honestly don't know ? How you are sure that nobody is applying force on the object? Good will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio traveler Posted August 24, 2011 #74 Share Posted August 24, 2011 How you are sure that nobody is applying force on the object? Good will? Yes. When I used to take my board to people's houses who have never played before, they were the ones' actually accusing me of forcing the planchette to spell things. So I am totally confident in saying that no one was applying intentional force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keosen Posted August 24, 2011 #75 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Yes. When I used to take my board to people's houses who have never played before, they were the ones' actually accusing me of forcing the planchette to spell things. So I am totally confident in saying that no one was applying intentional force. Cool 1) If you go blindfolded does the same messages appear? 2) If i bring you a board written Arabic or in a language that you don't know with symbols randomly placed all over the board we will get the same message? 3) Are you accusing Parker brothers that they sell evil spirits(potentially harmful) for 20$ on kids? Edited August 24, 2011 by Keosen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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