BREAKING NEWS: Attackers seize Russian school

[bathory]

I can't see how a far right government can do anything worse to the Chechens... the only thing worse then this is building death camps and starting mass extermination of evey Chechen man, woman or child.

And I think that if indeed a neo-Nazi party will come into power, like some of us here on this forum are afraid of, this will happen.

251390[/snapback]

thats what i was saying

if it keeps up, thats the way i see it going, extermination of every man, woman and child

[Guest]

Oh I hope they get as many people out safely as possible.

How terrible...

[Babs]

Here we go...terrorists kill kids! Al Qaeda ties here.

[LoPar]

I am appalled by what is happening in in Belsan. Bringing harm against those that can not defend themselves is the lowest of the low. I feel for the family of the father who attempt to protect his child and was gunned down.

Quote:

Fatima Khabalova, spokeswoman for the regional parliament, earlier said one of the dead was a father who brought his child to the school and was shot when he tried to resist the raiders.

It has been assumed that these terrorist are members of the secessionist Chechen rebels. Is there perhaps a bigger problem here. Should Chechnya have the right to secede from Russia?

[Erikl]

Here we go...terrorists kill kids! Al Qaeda ties here.

251503[/snapback]

Nothing new here.

Only a couple of months ago terrorists exploded a buss full of children in Jerusalem.

As I said - terrorists have no regards for human lives whatsoever - men, women or children.

And it doesn't matter if the terrorists are chechenians, palestinians, egyptians, iraqis or afghanis.

A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist.

[Fluffybunny]

Killing civilians is bad enough, but what kinda sick sub-human **** do you have to be take take hostage or kill children.

251310[/snapback]

I agree with Bathory, in the end all that this horrible stunt will do is to show that these folks are scum of the earth that can't be reasoned with. The only thing that will happen is that it will end up galvanizing the rest of the country against the terrorists and it will backfire on them.

[LoPar]

I can't see how a far right government can do anything worse to the Chechens... the only thing worse then this is building death camps and starting mass extermination of evey Chechen man, woman or child.

And I think that if indeed a neo-Nazi party will come into power, like some of us here on this forum are afraid of, this will happen.

251390[/snapback]

As long as there are Chechen's alive they will continue to fight for independence. What does Russia gain by continuing to claim Chechyna?

This isn't much different than Palistine and Israel relations in the mideast. Occupation just provides easy targets for terrorism.

When it comes to humans we tend to feircely fight for our land, our lives, and our independence. Even if we are fighting to our death in the process.

[Babs]

I agree with you Erikl_ 100%

[Erikl]

As long as there are Chechen's alive they will continue to fight for independence.  What does Russia gain by continuing to claim Chechyna? 

This isn't much different than Palistine and Israel relations in the mideast.  Occupation just provides easy targets for terrorism. 

When it comes to humans we tend to feircely fight for our land, our lives, and our independence.  Even if we are fighting to our death in the process.

251592[/snapback]

Not at all.

Although it might look similiar to a person who isn't familiar with one of those conflicts, these conflicts are very different:

1. The Russians occupied Chechnya in 1851 from the Ottomans in a colonisation war.

Israel took control over the the disputed territories after driving back agrresive forces who attacked it from those territories.

2. Jews were living in the disputed territories for 3,300 years - Russians have no history in Chechnya (they only started living there back in 1851). The disputed territories are the cradle of the Jewish people - Judea (south of the west bank) being the historical heart of the ancient kingdom of Judea.

3. Chechnya is an extremely small territory in the edge of a huge Russian state, and is very far from any major Russian city.

The disputed territories are 7,000sq km large, and Israel without those territories is 15,000sq km large. The disputed territories are only minutes from Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv or Haifa - all of Israel's major cities, and thus are essential for Israel's security (as long as we cannot trust the palestinians for stopping terrorism).

4. Chechens have no problem if Russians will live in Chechnya - they only want indepence.

Palestinians, on the other hand, can't stand Jews living in their future state, which they want it to be judenrein.

5. Chechnya is also about oil - one of Russia's largest oil pipe from the caspian sea goes through Chechnya.

The disputed territories, like the rest of Israel, has no natural resources.

See the differences?

Edited September 1, 2004 by Erikl

[Stellar]

Actually, they'll be calling the russians sub humans for not agreeing to the terrorists demands.

[Talon]

TALKS IN HOSTAGE HORROR

Negotiations have begun with gunmen who have taken 132 children, and up to 20 teachers and parents hostage at a school in Russia. Eight people are reported to have died in the siege.

The hostage takers, thought to be Chechen rebels, are demanding the release of jailed Chechens in the Ingushetia region and say they are prepared to kill 50 hostages for every rebel not released.

One report suggests up to 300 hostages are involved.

US President George Bush has told his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin that Washington is ready to help resolve the crisis.

The siege is taking place in the town of Beslan, in the Russian republic of North Ossetia, which borders Chechnya.

Russian news agencies have reported that up to 30 suicide attackers carrying belts laden with explosives stormed the junior school and herded the occupants into the gym.

A child is led to safety

A spokesman for the North Ossetian interior ministry said: "The hostage takers, who include men and women, are wearing martyrs' belts."

The attackers have said they will blow up the entire school if any attempt is made to storm the building.

Some of the children have been placed in the school windows by the gunmen to warn off Russian troops.

Fifteen children have been released and 50 who hid from the gunmen escaped from the school before the siege began.

Worried parents

The attack came on the first day back at school after the summer break when a large start-of-term celebration was being held.

The gunmen drove up to the school in an armed troop carrier and became involved in a shootout with police. Two people were killed.

Chechen leader Aslan Maskhadov has condemned the group. His spokesman in London said: "Whoever is behind this monstrous action, there is no justification for it."

Russia is reeling from a series of terror attacks in recent days.

On Tuesday night a bomb killed 10 people and injured more than 50 in Moscow, and last week the near-simultaneous crash of two Russian airliners - blamed on terrorists - killed 90 people.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1149674,00.html

[Hermai]

This message is for any terrorist that may be reading this post.

You suck.

Osama sucks.

Your beliefs suck.

Your friends suck.

You and your group are nothing but a bunch of low lifes that hide their face and attack innocent men, women and children.  When you get caught, if you are still alive and placed in prison, may you eat pork the rest of your miserable days.  You are nothing but a total waste of human flesh.  When you die, you will meet your true maker very briefly and then he will cast you down into the firey pits of hell.  Then you will wonder why you did what you did.  Why you believed in what you believed in.  You will curse yourself and the people that brain-washed your simple-mind into thinking what you did was right.

Die terrorists,

DIE.

251287[/snapback]

*couldn't agree more* there freakin cowards!

[LoPar]

2. Jews were living in the disputed territories for 3,300 years - Russians have no history in Chechnya (they only started living there back in 1851). The disputed territories are the cradle of the Jewish people - Judea (south of the west bank) being the historical heart of the ancient kingdom of Judea. 

251618[/snapback]

How long have the Palestinians been living in the disputed areas?

3. Chechnya is an extremely small territory in the edge of a huge Russian state, and is very far from any major Russian city.

The disputed territories are 7,000sq km large, and Israel without those territories is 15,000sq km large. The disputed territories are only minutes from Jerusalem, Tel-Aviv or Haifa - all of Israel's major cities, and thus are essential for Israel's security (as long as we cannot trust the palestinians for stopping terrorism).

4. Chechens have no problem if Russians will live in Chechnya - they only want indepence.

Palestinians, on the other hand, can't stand Jews living in their future state, which they want it to be judenrein.

5. Chechnya is also about oil - one of Russia's largest oil pipe from the caspian sea goes through Chechnya.

The disputed territories, like the rest of Israel, has no natural resources.

See the differences?

251618[/snapback]

I know there are many differences. I meant to reference only the similarity of a people fighting for their own nation and land. A fight that is punctuated by individuals who are willing to commit suicide in the struggle. I was wondering if either side can win or do both sides have to lose some and win some. Can these two separate disputes be settled without both sides meeting at some middle ground?

The dispute between the Israelis and the Palestinians have a deeply religious aspect in their struggle as well.

[Talon]

GUNMEN FREE 26 HOSTAGES

Gunmen have freed 26 people from a Russian school where hundreds of others are being held.

Shortly before a large explosion rocked the school causing a huge plume of black smoke above the building.

The Independent's Andrew Osborn told Sky News two cars were on fire in front of the school and the situation was deteriorating.

"It's unclear how they [the cars] exploded," he said.

"[The gunmen] throw grenades out of the window when they see Russian special forces.

"It looks like the situation is getting worse and escalating . . there is no sign of a negotiating process."

The gunmen have been shooting at policemen from inside the school.

An intelligence chief said the siege would be ended by "lengthy negotiations".

A prominent doctor is leading talks for the government - rebels say they will only talk to regional leaders and the paediatrician Lev Roshal.

The gunmen broke off talks with Roshal overnight and refused all offers of food and water.It has been a desperate night for the families of around 350 children, parents and teachers held inside.

President Vladimir Putin said the safety of the hostages was "paramount".

Twelve adults - including one hostage taker - were killed when the terrorists stormed the school in Beslan, North Ossetia.

Four others were injured.The attackers, thought to number between 17 and 40, herded pupils, parents and teachers into the school gym after bursting into a ceremony marking the start of a new school year.

The assault by the gang, which according to some accounts included women trained as suicide bombers, bore the signs of a Chechen rebel operation.

However, Chechen separatist leaders have denied any links.

It is not clear exactly how many people are in the school, which estimates between 100 and 400.

But the region's interior minister said there were a minimum of 400 children inside.

The UN security council has issued a unanimous condemnation of the attack.

It has demanded "the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages of the terrorist attack".

President Vladimir Putin has reportedly been in contact with President Bush about the crisis.

The siege is the latest in a recent spate of deadly attacks in Russia which have killed more than 100.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13211232,00.html

[Erikl]

How long have the Palestinians been living in the disputed areas? 

252219[/snapback]

That depends.

The Palestinians you refer too developed a seperate identity from that of the other Arabs only after 1967.

Before that, they were simply Arabs.

Most of the Palestinians are descendants from Arab immigrants from Syria, Egypt and Arabia, who came during the British mandate.

Some of them are descendants of Arabs who came there during the Ottoman rule, and a minority is probably also a descendant of the Arab conquers who invaded the land in the 7th century.

During the British mandate, btw, both Jews and Arabs were called "Palestinians", because both carried Palestine mandate's passports.

The name Palestine was the name that the Romans gave to the location of the ex-Jewish kingdom after they exiled almost all the Jews.

But Jews continued to live in this land (although comprising a minority) to these days, and in 1948, regained their independence.

Edited September 2, 2004 by Erikl

[wunarmdscissor]

Back on topic eh people theres some slighly more important news ....

did anyone see the news that there was an explosion in the school this morning.

Anyone know what has happened????

[Babs]

Agree Marth I say, kill um!

Not to get off topic, but the children haven't eaten for a day and a half I think the news said. I hope they give them water!

[Fluffybunny]

The latest fron cnn.com:

BESLAN, Russia (CNN) -- More than two dozen women and children have been released from the school in southern Russia where armed militants were holding more than 300 hostages for a second day, a regional government official said.

The official said 26 people had been released Thursday, but it was not clear if that number included three women and three infants reported released earlier.

TV pictures showed soldiers carrying the infants, one of whom was naked, into a car.

Investigators are debriefing the released hostages who are able to talk to try to glean more information about what is going on inside the school, officials said. It is believed all of the hostages are being kept inside the gymnasium.

The regional government official also said that negotiations have resumed with the hostage-takers.

In Moscow, Russian President Vladimir Putin said the safety of the hostages, including scores of children, was paramount.

Earlier, the hostage-takers apparently fired on a car outside the school, setting it on fire, officials at the scene said.

"All the actions of our forces ... will be devoted to solving this task," Putin said in nationally televised comments from the Kremlin.

"Our main task is to save the life and health of those who have ended up as hostages," Putin declared.

"There is no question at the moment of opting for force. There will be a lengthy and tense process of negotiation," Valery Andreyev, head of the FSB security service in North Ossetia province, told Reuters.

Similar statements were made when Chechen rebels held hundreds hostage in a Moscow theatre in October 2002 -- then Russian forces used gas to pacify those inside before storming the building.

Hundreds of armed troops in tanks, armored vehicles and on foot have surrounded the school in Beslan, near the troubled Russian republic of Chechnya where rebels and Russian forces have battled each other for a decade.

The Russian state news agency RIA Novosti said four people were killed and nine were wounded in the initial attack on the 11-grade primary school.

Interfax said the hostage-takers had threatened to kill 50 children for each of their number killed by Russian forces and 20 for each wounded.

The hostage-takers reportedly demanded the release of more than two dozen prisoners captured during a raid on Chechens in southern Russia in June and Russian withdrawal of all forces from Chechnya.

Negotiators were reportedly in touch with the hostage-takers -- reported to number around 15 including some women -- but have yet to reach a deal on getting supplies to those inside.

Since the first day of school was scheduled to be a short one, there was no food or water in the building. Those inside have not eaten for more than 35 hours.

CNN's Ryan Chilcote in Moscow reported that pediatrician Leonid Roshal, who aided hostages during the Moscow theater siege, had been flown from Moscow to mediate.

The hostages include children, parents and teachers -- and the hostage-takers have threatened to kill the children if an assault is launched.

The children range in age from 7 to 17.

Residents' fury

TIME magazine reporter Paul Quinn-Judge reported local residents are disputing one official count of at least 350 children taken hostage, saying the number is closer to 700.

Residents are angry with local officials that they have not been able to confirm how many hostages are inside the school, and heckled one official during a news conference Thursday morning.

"When local officials started to say well, they didn't think there were more than 350 children in the school, people were shouting things like: 'You don't know yet? You can't find out? How big is this city? What do you mean 300? That is a lie -- have you no conscience?'" Quinn-Judge said.

Sporadic gunfire came from the school Thursday, Quinn-Judge reported, although the reason for the gunfire was not clear.

Putin canceled an upcoming trip to Turkey to deal with the standoff, sources in his office told CNN Thursday.

While authorities have been tight-lipped about those behind the attack, Quinn-Judge said the assumption in the community was that they were rebels with links to Chechen Islamic radicals.

'Many of attackers women'

Russian authorities said many of the attackers were women, armed with explosives belts.

The raid was reminiscent of the October 2002 siege of a Moscow theater, when Chechen rebels took more than 700 hostages, threatened to kill them and demanded an end to the war in Chechnya.

Many of those attackers were women, with explosives belts strapped to their body, while the men were armed with pistols and rifles. Two massive bombs had also been placed in the theater.

That standoff ended when Russian forces piped in poison gas, but more than 120 of the hostages and 41 of the attackers were killed.

The current hostage standoff follows a bloody week in Russia, in which a female suicide bomber Tuesday killed nine people outside a Moscow subway station and two airliners were downed by two suspected Chechen female suicide bombers on August 24, killing all 89 people aboard the planes.

Russian officials have said the new wave of attacks was an attempt at revenge for last weekend's elections in Chechnya in which a Kremlin-backed candidate won the presidency.

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said the attacks marked a declaration of war.

"It is a different kind of war, where you cannot see your enemy and where there is no front line, but nonetheless this is an entirely real threat," Ivanov told reporters. "Russia is not the only country that faces this new threat."

The Kremlin press agency said U.S. President George Bush called Putin to offer any assistance that could help secure the release of the hostages.

[LoPar]

The latest has 31 released but large explosions are being heard. Rocket propelled grenades were fired at cars that were too close to the school.

Many people will die there before this is done.

[Babs]

One infant was naked?! What's going on in there!!!

[Stellar]

You know what? I resent the statement made by one of the Russian officials that said "War has been declared on us." referencing to the hostage taking. Thats BS. The terrorists declared war on the civilised world when they killed innocent people on 911. That should have been the unification of all the countries in the war on terror, but to me it seems that other countries were thinking "Oh well, they did it to the US, not us... its not our problem."

[Talon]

The terrorists declared war on the civilised world when they killed innocent people on 911.

You know their have been terrorist attacks on countries before 9/11, how come its when America's attacked that it only counts as a war against the west?

[Talon]

BLASTS HEARD AT SCHOOL

Two large explosions have been heard at the school in Russia where hundreds of people are being held hostage.

Some reports have said the blasts were caused by rocket propelled grenades and that the explosions were near the school but not actually inside the building.

Sky News' Rachel Amatt, who is at the scene, said following the explosions "the air immediately filled with smoke".

But she added it does not seem that special forces are storming the building.

Hundreds of terrified parents and relatives are waiting outside the school, desperate for the safe return of their loved ones.

Earlier, gunmen freed 31 women and children - they were said to be in a satisfactory condition.

Television footage showed infants, some carried by armed soldiers, being taken into waiting vehicles, along with the women.

A witness from the Reuters news agency said she saw four infants less than a year old.

It has also emerged that 16 people were killed early in the siege.

The armed group of about 40 men and women stormed the school in Beslan, North Ossetia on Wednesday, seizing about 400 adults and children who were gathered for a start-of-term celebration.

Father carries his little girl, who was among those released

The Russian government has insisted the standoff will be ended peacefully and has ruled out storming the building.

An intelligence chief said the siege would be ended by "lengthy negotiations".

A prominent doctor is leading talks for the government - rebels say they will only talk to regional leaders and the paediatrician Lev Roshal.

The gunmen broke off talks with Roshal overnight and refused all offers of food and water.

The assault by the gang, which according to some accounts included women trained as suicide bombers, bear the hallmarks of a Chechen rebel operation.

However, Chechen separatist leaders have denied links.

The UN security council has issued a unanimous condemnation of the attack.

It has demanded "the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages of the terrorist attack".

President Vladimir Putin has reportedly been in contact with President Bush about the crisis.

The siege is the latest in a recent spate of deadly attacks in Russia which have killed more than 100.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13211232,00.html

[Stellar]

The terrorists declared war on the civilised world when they killed innocent people on 911.

You know their have been terrorist attacks on countries before 9/11, how come its when America's attacked that it only counts as a war against the west?

252707[/snapback]

I knew someone was gonna say that. I was gonna say that, but I didnt know how to phrase it without making it sound complicated

[wunarmdscissor]

You know what? I resent the statement made by one of the Russian officials that said "War has been declared on us." referencing to the hostage taking. Thats BS. The terrorists declared war on the civilised world when they killed innocent people on 911. That should have been the unification of all the countries in the war on terror, but to me it seems that other countries were thinking "Oh well, they did it to the US, not us... its not our problem."

What typically arrogant statement.

Russia has been suffering these attacks for decades, it was one of the reasons thgey invaded afghanistan as well.

Now i didnt see america rushing in to condemn the chechans pre-9/11 , in fact i can bet nearly 3/4 s of the american publican couldnt have given a damn neway.

I dont remember america backing russia durin the afghanistan conflict either, even when the russian government told everyon that tehy were suffereing from islamist fundamentalism way back then.

I dont remember America even rushing to back the UK during the Irsish troubles when they were at they height, in fact millions of americans supported the IRA , and before you say im offending americans in saying that opne your eyes, in New York their used to me massive fund raising events held in pubs etc that raised money that was directly sent to the IRA.

So stellar dont come on here lecturing us about terrorism as if we've never suffered at the hands of terrorism.

Dont come on talking as if it is the russians who have just woken up to this porblem , theyve beend dealing with it for decades, its america who has just opened their eyes.

BAck on topic.

The chechans have made a series of demnands.

One of them is that they are demanding an indempendant chechnya, this is NEVER going to be allowed so i dont see this one NOT ending in bloodshed unfortuatley.

In gutted for those wee children.

People seem to forget though that the theatre seige military speaking was a success they rescued 90% of the hostages alive, it was the fact that there was very little medical resources available on scene to help deal with the hostages when they came out.

Hopefully this time theyll get it right both militarly and medically.