BREAKING NEWS: Attackers seize Russian school

[fmorrow6]

16 comments up

[fmorrow6]

you had a whole conversation with him, and agreed with him, didn't you even read what he had to say?

[Babs]

phenomenon...You mentioned jealousy about 911 because of the way you see us 'glorifying' the tragedy. I brought jealousy up before and didn't get any feedback except anger, but I do see jealousy and I understand it is because you see the US as glorifying the event. What you don't understand is_ we mean everything we say. You don't understand because you didn't live through 911 and you didn't live here.

I disagree with you. I guess you guys will never understand the impact, the trauma and far-reaching effects of that moment. And we can't expect you to.

[wunarmdscissor]

Fmorrow

I know what phenomenom said but you never addressed who you were talking to so i just wanted to make sure you werent talking about me.

Babs

How can you post so arrogantly?, how can you sit and still say we dont understand ?

You just completely ignore the terrorism in britain as if it was an insigificant wee speck of a problem???

I can guarantee that in my life i have witnessed , experienced and been the victim of more sectarian hatred than you will ever understand.

The same kind of hatred that islamic terrorists have for us all.

I would never sit and be so arrogant as to claim that any loss in my country is worse than a loss that happened to yours.

I mean sustained campaigns of terror all over the country fpr 5 decades constant religious tension and violence every day can you imagine that???

You sit their and its like your saying that american lifes being lost are worse than any other nation losing life.

Its like your saying it hit us harder because we are americans.

[fmorrow6]

I think what babs is trying to say is that maybe 9/11 is "glorified" or "overstated" because this doesn't happen all the time here. It's, kind of, unknown territory, so the shock may have a greater impact to people who have never been through that kind of hatred before. No more or no less tragic, just more shocking. It has more "shock value" over here. The newspapers want to sell, so they go for shock value.

[fmorrow6]

am i wrong, babs??

[wunarmdscissor]

no babs is saying that the type of terrorism we suffered wasnt the same as 9/11 , that it wasnt as bad.

Yet i can bet she hasnt even bothered to learn about the situation here.

babs accuses us of not knowing what its like therfore we cant comment on america's foreign policy regarding terrorism, when in actual fact we do understand what its like to live under fear of terrorist attack and actual attack.

Babs and joc accuse us of not understanding the hatred the islamic terrorists have for us , when in actual fact we do becuas eit s the same here, which i can guarantee she and joc dont understand half as well as i, sera , talon, phenomenom and the rest do.

babs is saying what has happened here over the last 50 years was not as abd as what happened on 9/11.

[wunarmdscissor]

babs also seems to believe that the war on terrorism is only relevant after 9/11 , well ive got some new s for her that was when america bothered to join the war against terrorism .

Babs need to learn that the IRA , al queada, hamas , ETA and the rest are all the same , they are all international terrorists and all just as bad.

[wunarmdscissor]

I have asked her on many occasions to comment on the americans who sponsored the IRA throughout the troubles.

In my original arguments with joc he said that anyone who harboured or supported terrorits should be invaded.

I informed hiim that most of the IRA's funding was from american sources and what his thoughts on that was.

My question was dismissed or ignored, as are most questions like that.

I am either dismissed as a leftist sympathiser or an anti-american bigot.

The latter i am definitley not.

[fmorrow6]

another question, Because i don't know, i'm asking.

The sources of funding for the IRA that came from America, were they founded by americans or by Irish immigrants who have family in Ireland?

Did americans KNOW that when they ate or drank or bought something that it was contributing to the IRA?

When i was in school, we didn't study much about it, (or maybe i just didn't pay attention) but i do remember the IRA always being referred, in lessons, as the "bad side". They were always referred to as muderers. I do remember that.

[wunarmdscissor]

from what ive read most ordinary americans in no way contributed to the IRA it was private funding form amercans who had a romantic notion as a pose to what the IRA really were all about.

It ranged from whiprounds in Irish pubs in america to alledgedly extremely wealthy americans supplying them with money.

Its all very shady .

There were numerous british intelligence reports on it, but in order to protect the relationship with america between the governtments (a good thing in my opinion) it was pretty hushed up.

[wunarmdscissor]

im sure a search on the net using google would surface some info on it.

We were taught about it in modern studies in school so it was afew years ago and i cant really remeber the whole story lol.

[fmorrow6]

so i don't see how reputable americans that have no ties to the IRA would just knowingly hand over money to support it.

If joc meant that all those who KNOWINGLY harbour and support terrorist should be invaded, i have to agree

[fmorrow6]

Good enough.

[wunarmdscissor]

well it all stems from the massive irish immigration that happened years ago to america.

Americans who call themselves Irish-american an so on. that kinda thing.

[Michelle]

For somebody wun, who can't remember the whole story you sure have a lot to say about it!!!

[fmorrow6]

got it

i did a little search and this is what i came up with, Is it about right? OBVIOUSLY not detailed, but a little insight?

Irish Republican Army (IRA)

synonyms: Provisional Irish Republican Army (PIRA), Provos, Óglaigh Na hÉireann, Direct Action Against Drugs (DAAD)

The main Republican paramilitary group involved in the Northern Ireland conflict. The central aim of the IRA is to end British control of Northern Ireland and to achieve the reunification of the island of Ireland. The 'Irish Republican Army' dates from the meeting of the first Dáil on 21 January 1919 and was the name that was adopted by the Irish Volunteers who had taken part in the Easter Rising in Dublin in 1916. Following independence in the south of Ireland the IRA re-emerged at various times to conduct campaigns to try to end British rule in Norther Ireland. Following the failed 'Border Campaign' (1956-1962) there were attempts to move the IRA towards more political agitation rather than military operations.

The Provisional IRA was established when the IRA split in December 1969 between the 'Officials' and the 'Provisionals'. Both groupings had a military wing, the 'Official' and 'Provisional' IRA, and both had a political wing, the 'Official' and 'Provisional' Sinn Féin (SF). The 'Official' IRA declared a ceasefire in the summer of 1972 and from then on the term IRA was used for the organisation that had developed from the 'Provisional' IRA. From a splinter group of a small and badly equipped paramilitary grouping the 'Provisional' IRA developed into a comparatively large, well financed, well equipped guerrilla organisation which has been involved in, what it calls, an 'armed campaign' for almost three decades. This campaign has involved violent attacks on the security system in the region and on the civilian population. According to Sutton (1994) the IRA was responsible for the deaths of 1,755 people between July 1969 and December 1993. During the same period the IRA lost approximately 243 members.

As part of the 'Peace Process' the IRA called a ceasefire on 31 August 1994. However, because of what it considered a lack of political movement in the peace process the IRA resumed its 'armed campaign' on 9 February 1996. After the election of a Labour government to Westminster a number of developments led to the resumption of the IRA ceasefire on 20 July 1997. The IRA considered that the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) "document clearly falls short of presenting a solid basis for a lasting settlement" (IRA statement 30 April 1998) however the IRA did not reject Agreement. In the years since the GFA the IRA has made it clear that its ceasefire remains in place although it has been alleged by critics that it has still been involved in paramilitary activity of various kind. But this is something the movement has always denied and on numerous occasions it has repeated that the ceasefire called in July 1997 remained intact. For a number of years after the GFA it refused to decommission its weapons; an act which it considered to be a surrender to the British government. However, on 23 October 2001 the IRA announced that it had begun a process to put its arms beyond use. . This was then repeated on two further occasions on 8 April 2002 and 21 October 2003.

Membership: It is thought that membership of the IRA peaked at around 1,500 in the mid-1970s and it is believed that at the time of the 1994 ceasefire membership was approximately 500 with a smaller number being 'active' members. The reduced membership coincided with the adoption by the IRA in 1979 of a 'cell structure' in an attempt to counter security force penetration through the use of informers. In addition to members in Ireland the IRA also had one or two 'active service units' in Britain and mainland Europe.

Arsenal: After its formation the (Provisional) IRA quickly became the most heavily, and best, armed of the various paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland. The IRA may have: 600 AK-47 / AKM assault rifles (believed to be Czech and Romanian versions of the AK-47 rifle smuggled from Libya between 1984 and 1987); 60 Armalite AR-15 assault rifles; 12 7.62mm FN MAG medium machine guns; 20 12.7mmx107mm DShK heavy machine guns; 2 to 3 SAM-7 anti-aircraft missiles; 40 RPG-7 rocket launchers; 40 Webley .455 revolvers; 6 LPO-50 flame throwers; 600 Assorted detonators; 3 tonnes of Semtex (commercial high explosive.) The IRA has always made use of 'home-made' weapons. These weapons became more sophisticated and more powerful over the years and included home-made mortars and fertiliser-based car and lorry bombs. Often these bombs contained hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of pounds of home-made explosives. Several large home-made bombs have been used in the centre of London and Manchester causing hundreds of millions of pounds of damage.

[fmorrow6]

i didn't want to open pandora's box......................

[wunarmdscissor]

For somebody wun, who can't remember the whole story you sure have a lot to say about it!!! 

just becuase i couldnt name the specific people accused of funding the IRA doesnt mean i cant comment or mean that i dont have any infomation on it.

[fmorrow6]

anyway, back on track, about the russian school. Does anyone know exactly how many people have died???

[fmorrow6]

I was reading on aol, about a lady who was taken hostage with her 9 mo. old and nine year old. The terrorists had made a deal with a negotiator to let women with babies out. she had to leave her nine year old behing, or stay with her and let her nine month old starve to death.

The nine year old died. She was sleeping or passed out when a bomb went off. How horrible. She has to live with the guilt of leaving her child behind

[Fluffybunny]

So do we all think that we have exhausted this threads usefulness? or are we going to be able to keep a little more on topic with less personal attacks?

I might recommend someone starting a thread on the IRA in order to take that discussion where it belongs, it is a good subject that I think many here in the US could learn from, but it doesn't seem apprpriate here.

[wunarmdscissor]

no because there are many gravely ill just now, i think at the momemnt its just under 400 but theyr eexpecting it to rise well over 400 its so sad.

[wunarmdscissor]

fluffy your right sorry