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Erikl

BREAKING NEWS: Attackers seize Russian school

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Seraphina

The reason they lost so many people in the theatre incident was poor testing of the gas...they hadn't done any research to see how it would work in an enclosed area, or taken into account how it would effect the elderly on the young.

Having said that, I do believe it was justified...losing a handful of the hostages was still far better than losing all of them, which would have happened if those loonies had been allowed to maintain that situation much longer.

To be honest though, I don't see how it can be used here....I'm not sure how you can gauge an exact dossage of the gas that would be able to have its effects on the terrorists, grown men, without killing or at least doing serious damage to a small child.

Overall, I just find this whole affair sickening...I don't see how anyone, no matter how right they think they are, could actually hold the lives of children to ransom...it just makes me go back to my old belief that religious fundamentalists aren't people, and shouldn't be treated like they are.

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wunarmdscissor

Sera on BBC news yesterday they did say that if proper medical teams had been on hand tehn they wouldve saved much more people it some expert, thats where i got that from lol, i dont have a clue about gasses an sh**.

I did wacth a very interesting documentary on discovery where they attempted to replicate the gas used. It was a mixture of two known gasses apparently(sera dont u study this stuff ull know) but the scientists on the discovery channel were really impressed with the russians apparently.

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Seraphina
(sera dont u study this stuff ull know)

Um...no blink.gif I'm a cellular and microbiologist.

Sera on BBC news yesterday they did say that if proper medical teams had been on hand tehn they wouldve saved much more people it some expert

Yeah, it was a factor, but they might not have needed medical teams at all if they'd been more careful about how much gas they'd used. The gas was designed for use in the field...it's just simple chemisty in that; volume in directly related to concentration, and the more gas you have for units of normal air, the greater effect it's going to have. They didn't take that into account when they decided to deploy it...

But still, I hate the idea of the same thing happening here...whatever they do though, they need to make a desicion quickly. If the terrorists are making demands that can't be met, then this is going to end with a fight one way or the other, and they need to strike before the terrorists work that out too.

One of the problems with fighting terrorists now is that we can no longer work under the assumption that the hostage taker wants to get out of things alive...to these nut jobs, blowing up that school won't be much of a loss if they're in it....after all, in their own messed up heads, they'll go off to their own little version of paradise.

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Dowdy
You know their have been terrorist attacks on countries before 9/11, how come its when America's attacked that it only counts as a war against the west? 

That's because america is the centre of the universe. Didn't you know that...

...well to certain americans, that is grin2.gif

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Erikl

To be fair - America has become the leader of the west during the Cold War, defending Europe against Soviet occupation, and representing Western European agendas in it's relations with the USSR and the Communist block.

So in a sence, the USA is the leader of the west, although now it has competition with the EU which wants to gain a super-power status.

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Stamford

I think that the point is that the World has been suffering at the hands of terrorism for a lot longer than 2001.

The UK, Israel to name but two; however, since the US became a victim there suddenly has to be a 'War on Terror', as misguided as this phrase is; it is a War on some terror, dsepending on who is commiting the terror.

The Chechens have been suffering a near genocide for over 10 years, but as Russia is now an ally we conveniently look the other way.

NOT FOR ONE SECOND, THOUGH, AM I SUPPORTING THEIR TERRORIST ACTS.

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Kismit

I'm watching the breaking news on CNN , it's absolutely horrific .

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Erikl

UPDATE: from Sky News:

SIEGE BATTLE BREAKS OUT

A major battle has broken out between special forces and gunmen holding hundreds of people hostage in a school in Russia as 30 women and children escape.

The school's roof is reported to have collapsed and TV footage is showing people running screaming from the building.

Many of the children are naked and caked in blood.

The gunfire started at about 10am and is escalating.

Several explosions have been heard in the last 15 mintues and three helicopters

It is not clear whether a rescue attempt is being launched or whether the battle erupted because the hostages tried to escape.

Relatives and journalists have been moved away from the area.

"Something has changed," Amatt said.

The gunmen earlier demanded that Chechnya be made independent.

It was believed more than 300 people, including children, were being held in the school in Beslan, north Ossetia.

But one hostage who was released said the figure was nearer 1,500 while the regional leader said it was more than 500.

Russian authorities are notorious for not being candid with the full details in previous similar incidents.

There has been sporadic explosions and gunfire heard overnight - making the wait for desperate relatives even more painful.

The explosions may have been grenades fired from within the building. At least one soldier was taken to hospital after suffering injuries.

Conditions inside the gym where the children and adults are being held are reportedly deteriorating - and there has still been no agreement on sending food and water to the hostages.

An armed group of about 40 men and women stormed the school on Wednesday during a start-of-term celebration.

The militants freed 32 people, including several described as "infants", on Thursday.

Fifteen hostages were allowed out on Wednesday.

It has now emerged that a total of 16 people may have been killed so far - most of them in the early stages of the siege.

The Russian government said this morning it wanted the standoff ended peacefully.

SOURCE

ohmy.gifph34r.gif

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Erikl

I'm watching the news right now - children with blood on their bodies are running loose with no clothes!!!

ohmy.gifcrying.gif

WTF?!

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Stamford

Those poor little fellas.

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Subtemperate

The military stormed the school..... I think they just said 80 - 150 children have gone to hospital (although they hadnt eaten or drunk from what i believe so that might not be injury related).....

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Seraphina

Does that mean the seige was ended, or are there still hostages inside?

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Erikl

Sky reported that the children didn't eat nor drunk in the last three days - they were forced to drink their own urinate crying.gifdisgust.gifmad.gif.....

They were piled up one above another, in extreme tempretures of the summer ohmy.gif.....

Edited by Erikl

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Seraphina

God almighty....*shakes her head*

If they captured any of the terrorists alive, I really hope they don't stay that way for long...just torture them for information, and get rid of them once you get it...only way these "people" (and I use the term sparingly) should be treated.

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Subtemperate
Russian soldiers battled Chechen separatists today to end a two-day-old school siege as naked children ran out screaming amid explosions and machine-gun fire.

Most of the children hostages in the southern Russian school were alive, Interfax news agency quoted a security official as saying today.

"Those children who remained in the school, in general, did not suffer. The ones who suffered were the children in the group which ran from the school and on whom the fighters opened fire," the official was quoted as saying.

Russian special forces charged into the school and it was now under the control of Russian forces, Tass news agency reported.

NTV television reported that five of the armed gang which seized the school on Wednesday had been killed.

A Reuters correspondent saw soldiers carrying children away from the school, some covered in blood, as military helicopters circled overhead and ambulances ferried wounded hostages away, all to the sound of continuous gunfire.

Witnesses said troops had entered the school, whose roof had partly collapsed, according to officials quoted by Interfax. The Tass news agency reported that some 40 children had been evacuated from the school by 1.50pm (1950 AEST).

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Interfax news agency reported that some of the group of hostage-takers, believed to number about 40, had tried to break out through crowds of frantic relatives waiting near the school as Russian special forces moved in.

Others reported soldiers firing on fleeing gunmen.

Officials had said some 500 people were being held in the school in North Ossetia, near Chechnya, but released hostages said the number could be nearer to 1,500, lying on top of each other in increasingly desperate conditions.

Children, some half-naked, drank heavily from bottles of water after two days without drink.

Some children lay on stretchers.

It was unclear what had triggered the battle, a few hours after Russia insisted it would not resort to force to free the children, parents and teachers being held for a third day without food or water.

Alexander Dzasokhov, president of the province of North Ossetia, said the 40 or so masked gunmen were demanding an independent Chechnya, the first clear link between them and the decade-long separatist rebellion in the neighbouring province.

Reports from some of the women and children released yesterday painted a grim picture.

"You know, there aren't 350 people (the previous official number) in there, but 1,500 in all. People are lying one on top of another," Zalina Dzandarova, a 27-year-old woman, told the daily Kommersant.

One unidentified woman freed yesterday told Izvestia that during the night children occasionally began to cry.

"Then the fighters would fire in the air to restore quiet. In the morning they told us they would not give us anything more to drink because the authorities were not ready to negotiate.

"When children went to the toilet, some tried to drink from the tap. The fighters stopped them straight away."

Dzasokhov said the captors had made their demands in talks yesterday with Ruslan Aushev, a moderate former leader of nearby Ingushetia province, who has taken on a mediating role.

"The demands relayed to Aushev yesterday ... were that Chechnya must be an independent state," he said.

The school siege is the latest in a wave of violent attacks in Russia in recent weeks, all linked to Chechen separatists.

Last week, suicide bombers were blamed for the near-simultaneous crash of two passenger planes in which 90 people died. This week, in central Moscow a suicide bomber blew herself up, killing nine people.

Russian media have speculated that the gunmen could belong to separatist forces under field commander Magomed Yevloyev, an Ingush who is believed to have led a mass assault on Ingushetia in June.

With the clock ticking for President Vladimir Putin to end the crisis, security experts had warned of a possible bloody end.

Putin, who came to power in 2000 vowing to "wipe out" Chechen militants, pledged to do all he could to save the hostages.

But he refused any suggestion of a compromise on Chechnya remaining part of Russia. Previous ends to hostage crises have ended in huge loss of life.

Izvestia said 860 pupils attended School No.1 in Beslan. But the number of people on the campus would have been swollen by parents and relatives attending the first-day ceremony traditional in Russian schools.

Up to 16 people were believed to have been killed in the early stages of the assault.

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LoPar
The firing subsided after about 45 minutes, but then kicked up again later. ITAR-Tass said the soldiers blew a hole in the building to help with the raid and other reports said some of the raiders had escaped, possibly taking children with them, and were fleeing Beslan.

If there is any fact to this, then it may not be over yet. Russia continues to show that there isn't room for negotiation with terrorists. This will likely lead to fewer situations like this and more where they just blow buildings and people up.

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Erikl

SkyNews says that the situation is out of control - there are people inside the school that shouldn't be there.

debka.com says some terrorists have escaped and taken hostages in other buildings in the city....

There are civilians carrying guns running in the streets - possibly Ossetians who try to help the Russians.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON THERE?!?! ohmy.gif

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Lottie

This is truly horrific and I only hope that no more innocent lives are lost due to these $hit$.

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Subtemperate

Holy mother of god....

At least six children, all very badly wounded and some with their limbs ripped off and their backs torn open, were also evacuated by civilians and members of the Russian emergency ministry.

Man..... that thought is..... I cant even come up with a word....

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Daughter of the Nine Moons

I've been watching this on the news this morninng and it is just horrifying...I don't know what else to say either.

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Stamford

This the latest from the BBC's news website:

Some reports say all the hostages have now been brought out of the school, but there are continuing scenes of chaos.

Heavy gunfire and loud explosions were heard as ambulances rushed scores of casualties to nearby hospitals.

Unconfirmed reports say that at least 10 people have been killed and up to 200 wounded.

Several of the hostage takers are also reported to have died in exchanges of fire with troops as they tried to escape, Reuters reports.

Some are reported to have blown themselves up, but others appear to have got away, says the BBC's Jonathan Charles.

AT A GLANCE (TIMES IN GMT)

1153: Officials say 250 hostages wounded, including 180 children - AP

1150: At least five bodies outside school

1125: Security forces attack house where some rebels thought to be hiding - reports

1115: All hostages reported out of school

0958: Special forces enter school

0930: School roof said to have collapsed

0905: Explosions and gunfire heard. Soldiers run to building

Correspondents say many of those released were desperate for water when they came out, and some were barely able to stand.

The BBC's Sarah Rainsford said at least 150 children have been taken to hospital.

A large number of people had earlier been seen fleeing the premises, many of them covered in blood.

Helicopters hovered overhead and there were troops everywhere.

Sarah Rainsford says a man who had been inside the building told her there had been an explosion and a wall had collapsed. This had been followed by gunfire and many more explosions.

It is unclear what caused the initial explosion.

Pandemonium

There is pandemonium in the streets surrounding the school, says the BBC's Damian Grammaticas, who is also at the scene.

On Thursday, 26 women and young children were released, and some of them provided the first details of conditions inside the school.

"You know there are not 300 people in there, but altogether 1,500. People are lying on top of each other," 27-year-old teacher Zalina Dzandarova told the Kommersant newspaper.

-

Truly, just horrific.

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LoPar
I've been watching this on the news this morninng and it is just horrifying...I don't know what else to say either.

253483[/snapback]

I just saw some footage of the scenes at the school. It is as you said horrifying. This will certainly harden the world against terrorists. I am usually a reserved individual....but watching what was happening I found myself hoping that the terrorists would die slow painful deaths.

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Stamford

Apparently there are many badly injured children, with 5 close to death.

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Lottie
At least six children, all very badly wounded and some with their limbs ripped off and their backs torn open, were also evacuated by civilians and members of the Russian emergency ministry.

I could not possibly write the words coming out of my mouth at the moment. Only to say my heart breaks for these children.

I hope these terrorists get whats coming to them and have a slow painful death.

Edited by Lottie

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wunarmdscissor

there is apparently been 100 dead bodies found in the gymn.

This is shocking

What evil b******* could do this to children?

No cause religious or otherwise is justifiable with this.

If ordniary muslims do not condemn this then shame on them.

Apparently one of the hostage takers got caught and lynched by the familys, i hope he rots i hell and i hope he died in fear and the most pain imaginable.

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