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Erikl

BREAKING NEWS: Attackers seize Russian school

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wunarmdscissor

IS this what the chechen people want done in their name?????

Is their cause worth this???

Tell me where are all these peaceful muslims???

Where are all these mulsims that abhore this type of outrage???

Why arent there thousands of muslims marching for an end to this type of outrage???

In my opinion their silence is deafining.

No cause is justifiable by this.

On hearing that half the hostage takers were arab i have completley re-evaluated my position on the middle east, in fact i am seriously considering joining up for the military earlier than i had planned , i have been so affected by this.

Seeing those kids and babies yesterday was so utterly heartbreaking.

These people deserve to pay. Apparently the families beat 2 of the scum to death witn their bear hands , GOOD. I hope theyu suffered in pain , agony and fear , as much as the poor helpless children did.

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Lottie

UPDATE

Russian School Hostage Crisis Death Toll Increases (Update5)

Sept. 4 (Bloomberg) -- At least 322 people, half of them children, died at the Russian school where terrorists took hundreds of parents and pupils hostage, state news service Itar-Tass reported, citing Russian Deputy Prosecutor Sergei Fridinsky.

Russian troops stormed the school in Beslan, North Ossetia, yesterday, ending a two-day siege by militants demanding independence for neighboring Chechnya. A group linked to al-Qaeda terrorist chief Osama bin Laden claimed responsibility for the assault on a Middle East Web site.

``We have had many losses,'' Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a broadcast by Moscow-based Rossiya television. ``We weren't preparing to storm. The events were developing in a fast and unexpected way. This terrorist attack was special because children were attacked.''

The school raid, the biggest hostage-taking assault Russia has experienced, was the fourth Chechnya-related terrorist attack in 10 days and pushed the combined death toll to more than 300. Russian authorities have blamed international Islamic terror groups.

Troops launched their assault as terrorists fired on hostages escaping the school's gymnasium, said Valery Andreev, head of the local division of the Federal Security Service. The group planted bombs in the gymnasium and some have yet to be discharged, the Beslan crisis unit told Interfax news agency. More bodies may be found as debris is cleared, the Interfax report said.

Putin early today visited Beslan Clinical Hospital, where 556 former hostages, including 332 children, were treated.

Al-Qaeda Statement

A group loyal to Ayman al-Zawahiri, second-in-command to al- Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, claimed responsibility for the assault in a statement posted on an Islamic Web site, Islamic Minbar. The authenticity of the statement cannot be verified.

``The killing of the Russian Crusader Butchers in Ossetia is the start of a street and gang war the heroic mujaheeden will conduct against the European security forces,'' the statement said.

Putin ordered roads and borders in North Ossetia to be closed while security forces search for terrorists who may have escaped.

The attacks come five years after 51-year-old Putin rose to power as prime minister under President Boris Yeltsin, promising to quell a rebellion by Muslims in Chechnya.

``Security is about broader building of institutions, and it's pretty clear that the Russian leadership has failed to do that,'' said Celeste Wallander, director for Russia at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies. ``We are beginning to see the Russian people criticizing'' Putin.

Chechen War

Putin's approval rating stood at 68 percent last month, down from 81 percent at the start of the year and the lowest level since December 2000, according to opinion polls by the Moscow-based Levada Center, an independent agency.

The Chechen separatist movement fell under the influence of Muslim fundamentalists amid Russian brutality toward civilians in a war from 1994 to 1996, when Arab mercenaries joined the conflict.

Russians and Chechens have been criticized by groups such as Amnesty International for mistreating civilians. Russia has about 80,000 soldiers in Chechnya, whose people on Sunday elected Alu Alkhanov president in a vote organized by the pro-Putin government to replace Akhmad Kadyrov, who was assassinated in May. Rebels called the elections illegitimate.

The siege at Beslan, about 60 kilometers (37 miles) west of the Chechen capital Grozny, may strengthen Russia's case that its battle with Chechen separatists is a front in the global fight against al-Qaeda and allied groups that President George W. Bush has called a threat to U.S. security.

`Uncompromising'

The Russian foreign ministry vowed today to keep up its ``uncompromising'' fight against international terrorism, Agence France-Presse reported.

Of 20 gunmen killed by Russian troops at the school, 10 were from Arab countries, the Federal Security Service's Andreev said. A hostage, identified as Teimuraz, told Rossiya there were 28 people in the armed group, including women who wore camouflage uniforms.

They wired the school with explosives, he said. The armed group had demanded the separation of Chechnya from Russia, North Ossetian President Alexander Dzasokhov told AFP.

The violence at Beslan may be Russia's worst-ever terrorist attack, surpassing the death toll from the October 2002 siege of a Moscow theater, when Chechen rebels took more than 800 hostages. At least 129 hostages died then as special forces stormed the theater, killing all 41 hostage-takers.

Militants took at least 1,000 people, mostly children, hostage on Sept. 1 as they assembled for the first day of the school year, an occasion celebrated in Russia with children and parents wearing their best clothes and carrying flowers for teachers.

The two-day standoff broke into a shootout as a group of about 40 children tried to escape, Russian security forces said.

Fleeing Hostages

The hostages fled after two bombs went off just after 1 p.m. Moscow time as rescuers entered the school, with the terrorists' permission, to collect the bodies of 10 to 20 people killed when the siege began, Andreev said. The terrorists started firing at the fleeing children, and armed bystanders fired back, he said.

The shootout and the storming of the school weren't shown on television because authorities cordoned off the area.

Prior to the raid in Beslan, two passenger planes crashed on Aug. 24 when bombs went off, killing 89 people, and 10 died on Monday from a suicide bomb attack near a Moscow subway station.

A group calling itself the Islambouli Brigades, which Putin said is linked to al-Qaeda, claimed responsibility for the plane and subway attacks. In a statement today also on Islamic Minbar Web site, it denied involvement in Beslan.

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Talon
IS this what the chechen people want done in their name?????

No. I saw on the news last night that 50% of them don't even want independence, and most of those who do vote for moderate parties rather than support the radical ones. This, like all Islamic fundamentalists, does not represent the majorit.

Is their cause worth this???

Like I said, its a minority. The currently elected President of Chechnisa is actually supported by Moscow.

Tell me where are all these peaceful muslims???

Oh their out there, just it doesn't sell papers to mention them.

Where are all these mulsims that abhore this type of outrage???

You here them all the time when this kinda thing happens, like with the French kidnapped in Iraq, a bunch of French muslims went to Iraq to try and bargan for their release.

Here's Sky news' version of Lottie's article, its reports 155 children dead.

SIEGE ENDS IN BLOODSHED

The number of people killed in the Beslan school siege has risen to 322, according to officials in North Ossetia.

Among the dead are 155 children, as well as parents, school teachers and Russian special forces soldiers.

It is believed 32 terrorists died when Russian troops stormed the building after an explosion and gunfire were heard inside.

It is not known if any of the gunmen - believed to include Arab mercenaries - escaped.

There are reports the explosives and arms used by the gunmen were smuggled into the school in summer during building work.

An estimated 700 are in hospital, most of them children. Some are badly injured.

This morning, Russian President Vladimir Putin visited the hospital where hundreds of wounded are being treated.

He also ordered security forces to seal Beslan and close the border between Chechnya and North Ossetia.

"All Russia grieves with you," said Mr Putin during a meeting with local officials.

Mr Putin visits the injured

"Even alongside the most cruel attacks of the past, this terrorist act occupies a special place because it was aimed at children," he added.

There has been worldwide condemnation of the siege and messages of condolence including one from the Queen.

The EU has also expresssed its sympathy, although it is demanding to know "how this tragedy could have happened".

Freed hostages described the mayhem which followed the explosions on Friday afternoon.

The blasts came 53 hours after the hostage-takers first threatened to blow up the building.

"Bombs were strung all over the gym," one teenage girl told state television. "Tape came unstuck on one and it blew up."

"There were two big explosions," said a women in her forties.

"We started pushing all the children out of the windows... Everyone who was there started pushing them out."

Authorities said they had been forced to launch a rescue operation when the gunmen opened fire on fleeing children.

So far no terrorist group has claimed responsibilty for the siege.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13213119,00.html

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wunarmdscissor

Yeah talon a few might make a couple of token comments, but thousands marched against the invasion of Iraq, and we werent planning on directly killing children and humiliating and degrading them were we??

I hate sounding bigoted god knows we have to put up with enough of that here talon, but im sorry they always seem to criticise the act tokenly and then start defending the terrorists.

There is NO defence for what they done.

The children were forced to drink their own Urine.

They werent just hostages they were ABUSED children and if the muslim population of the world even attempts to forma defence for these people then thats the beyond belief.

What kinda religion allows its people to do this??

I mean the pope and other religious leaders are extremely quick to condemn any terror attack and act of war.

Why cant they?????

im sick and tired of being dictated to by muslims.

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Talon

While I agree Multi-cultrualism is evil. I must admit I would go to a rally about tha UK invasion of Ireland, but really can't be bothered to to one against the IRA. People usually go to rallies which effect them, many just don't see rallying against terrorists in another country of the same enthic group productive.

I will admit however, that there seems to a hypocracy about many of them though.

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wunarmdscissor

Adn talon there are plenty of papers that portray us as the bad guys and the muslims as the downtrodding victims.

The daily record right here is one of the worst offenders, they would gladly put protests on the front of the paper, just as the BBC would love it as they always back them.

The reason we dont see thousands of muslims defending their "peace-loving" religion is because they dont happen.

Oh if we were to march into that lovely oasis of a country Iran , a country were if you beleived the muslims free speech is rife and human rights are excellent we wouldb e portrayed as evil conquerors.

Millions of muslims would march against us in our own country.

But when they kill and abuse children in the name of their god they hardly raise a whimper.

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Lottie
Al-Qaeda Statement         

A group loyal to Ayman al-Zawahiri, second-in-command to al- Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden, claimed responsibility for the assault in a statement posted on an Islamic Web site, Islamic Minbar. The authenticity of the statement cannot be verified.         

``The killing of the Russian Crusader Butchers in Ossetia is the start of a street and gang war the heroic mujaheeden will conduct against the European security forces,'' the statement said.

Even if this statement cannot be verified it still shows that this group is a dispicable and evil even wanting to claim they did this. Our world is turning into a world full of Brutality that has to be stopped NOW!

I agree Wurm I am sick and tired of this too these people are pure evil and need to be dealt with the sooner the better as I have always said. I am not even bothered about slow torture and death just get rid of them quickly.

I watched the news last night and had to run to the bathroom where I was physically sick watching the images of those poor dear children. This has got to be the most horrific act of terrorism to date and it has to be stopped and I really do not care anymore how.

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Talon

true, true

but I must admit, I tend to turn a blind eye to the IRA. Not in favour of their actions, just if the succeed to absorbing Ulster into Ireland, then I'll wont make a song and dance about how they did it.

Maybe its the same with them, but yeah PC is definately out to make us the big bad.

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wunarmdscissor

And the backlash against not only the terrorists has already begun.

I was listening to talk radio yesterday ( a radio station which it and its listeners are notoriously left wing) and the lines were jammed with people enraged with these guys and islam in general.

Precisley because they dont really condemn these acts let alone try and help put a stop to them.

I mean they think europeans are weak and its all spain's fault.

They made us all look weak.

But im telling you there are a few european nations who are not and we are one of them. Russia are definitley another.

The arabs made a huge mistake gettin involved in russia.

If they did it in russia they can do it here, my little sister is at high school and if it were her that was in that school i wouldve torn the school apart brick by brick just as those families were.

I hate agreeing with george bushbut the time for appeasmant has passed. They hate us. giving them muslim states wouldnt work, they want rid of us end of. We are the infidels arent we.

We have to stick together now. im sorry but the last 24hrs have seen me switch to a completley new way of thinking.

I fed up beyond belief.

Why should i defend a people who do horrendous things like this anymore???

Maybe erikl, joc and the rest have got a point.

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Lottie
Adn talon there are plenty of papers that portray us as the bad guys and the muslims as the downtrodding victims.

I am kind of going off topic here but as I have said many times about this... If they don't like it here and don't want to live in our country within our lifestyle they know what they can do. Pack up and go home. In fact it would be easier to round them up and ship them out. I am so fed up with this whole situation.

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wunarmdscissor

yeah talon about the IRA, you know supporting the team i do (it sounds daft i know) but ive come onto contact and sat in pubs filled with their hatred.

Thing is even they would never stoop to a level like this. blatatly killing children is outrageous.

One more point if the IRA committed an act as abarbaric as that they wouldve have been flushed out by their own irish public, the irish would never have stood for something as horrendous as this.

That said the IRA still committed awful acts. Luckily though for now they seem to have put down their arms.

But this is why the muslims must actively help.

After omagh ireland was shocked at the barbarism of that bomb and as a people spoke out against it.

This will never happen in islam.

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LoPar
The hostage-takers, in their own minds, were only playing by the rules set by the Russian army. "They told us that their own children have been killed by Russians and they have nothing to lose," Zalina Dzandarova, one of a handful of hostages released before the bloody climax, told the newspaper KommersantÖ. "I asked one of them how they could put the lives of our children in danger like this. He answered that no one asked his opinion about anything when his children were being killed."

The full arcticle: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../BNStory/Front/

Obviuosly if any of this is true one can find a glimpse of the mentality of the terrorist in this horrifying incident.

I find this alarming as well......

The excuse that Russian troops had no choice but to storm the school once the hostage-takers started shooting won't wash. The fact that they saved hundreds of those trapped inside won't be enough.  The number of dead and wounded children, teachers and mothers is too high. What people will remember is that there were not enough ambulances on standby to get the injured to hospital, and that the special-forces troops went in heavy, with tanks, despite the fact that most of the hostages were children.

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wunarmdscissor

yes the russians have made mistakes and its very likely they have killed many innocent people, to be fair it is probably collateral damage, it is a hellish situation.

The thing is there are many chechans who want to be part of russia, many chechans who arent muslims , why should they be forced to live under a muslim state against their will. in fact someon mentioned 50% of chechans want to me part of russia.

what right do muslims have to dictate to them?

Its like the nothern irish issue here.

whilst tehre are thousands of N.Irish who want to be british they will have that right and the british army's defence.

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DespondentDave
yeah talon about the IRA, you know supporting the team i do (it sounds daft i know) but ive come onto contact and sat in pubs filled with their hatred.

Thing is even they would never stoop to a level like this. blatatly killing children is outrageous.

One more point if the IRA committed an act as abarbaric as that they wouldve have been flushed out by their own irish public, the irish would never have stood for something as horrendous as this.

That said the IRA still committed awful acts. Luckily though for now they seem to have put down their arms.

But this is why the muslims must actively help.

After omagh ireland was shocked at the barbarism of that bomb and as a people spoke out against it.

This will never happen in islam.

254578[/snapback]

Very true.

Back in 1993 I worked in Warrington, and at the very place and very time that I would have been there on a normal weekday, the IRA detonated a bomb that killed two young children.

Never before had an IRA attack provoked such outrage in this country, and for the first visible time, looking from these shores, the people of Ireland united in their condemnation of this act. It took the death of just two innocent children to turn the good folk of the Republic against the IRA once and for all.

Now here we are with an outrage that has claimed over 300 lives more, 50% of them young children like Tim Parry and Johnathan Ball. Will we have the same level of condemnation from the Chechyan Muslims, the people they have supposedly carried out this atrocity on behalf of?

I'm not holding my breath.

Edited by DespondentDave

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Babs
Adn talon there are plenty of papers that portray us as the bad guys and the muslims as the downtrodding victims.

I am kind of going off topic here but as I have said many times about this... If they don't like it here and don't want to live in our country within our lifestyle they know what they can do. Pack up and go home. In fact it would be easier to round them up and ship them out. I am so fed up with this whole situation.

254576[/snapback]

...agree with you thumbsup.gif I say this about people who are easy on terrorism...ship um out!

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wunarmdscissor

Russia warned us about afghanistan and islam in the 80's but thatcher anr reagon did their damndest to destroy russia and communism AT ANY COST.

The russians told us they were protecting their own borders from the terrorist attacks. reagon and thatcher just trained the terrorists even better.

What are the russian meant to do concerning that article above.

Just give in , let these b******* kill their children and let them away with it, would you??

NO i would be tearing to get at them. im sorry its just the way it is.

We need to stick by the russians just as them and france and germany probably shouldve stood by us about Iraq.

That is past now. We MUST stick together now, itsthe only way forward.

Perhaps if these "peace-loving" muslims began to emerge and not only condemn but aid us then maybe we might start making some headway.

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wunarmdscissor

a few of you might be shocked by my hardline stance on this i know. Im not trying to offend anyone here , i just pictured my little sister on a strechter yesterday and thought enough is enough.

we have to destroy them and if islam in general aint gonna help us then in the words of george bush "their against us".

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Stellar
If they did it in russia they can do it here, my little sister is at high school and if it were her that was in that school i wouldve torn the school apart brick by brick just as those families were.

I wouldnt. I'd be the first to put aside my own feelings and advocate NOT negotating with them and giving a deadline to surrender, or they die. Trying to talk to them and "make a deal" will only hurt more people.

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wunarmdscissor

its very easy to say that though from the other side of the world if your 8 year old daughter was being starved, refused water , made to drink her own uring, hurt threatened with death am pretty sure those emotions would be unconrtollable and rightly so.

The russians should have done a bettrer job of restraining them thats all.

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Babs

I agree with wun. He has said so many things, but here are a few.

wun wrote:

Oh if I was to march into that lovely oasis Iran, the country were if you believe the muslims free speech is rife and human rights are excellent we would be portrayed as evil conquerors. Millions of muslim would march against us in our own country. But when they kill and abuse children in the name of their god they hardly raise a whimper

If they did it in Russia they can do it here

I hate agreeing with G. Bush but the time for appeasement has passed........the last 24 hrs. have seen me switch to a completely new way of thinking. Maybe erikl, joc and the rest have got a point

I agree wholeheartedly, wun.

I am glad the families beat the hostage to death with their bare hands. A tragedy like this is why the US is dead set against terrorists. When you go through tragedies such as 911 and now this, you see how there isn't any other choice. You must kill the terrorists and kill them wherever they hide. ph34r.gif

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gollum
Thing is even they would never stoop to a level like this. blatatly killing children is outrageous.

Are you serious wun? The IRA have commited countless barbaric acts over the years. You say that they would never stoop so low as to attack and kill children?

What about the hundreds of kids from the age of 12-18 that have been tarred and feathered, knee capped and left crippled and then given 24 hours to get themselves out of Ireland or else pay the consequences?

The number of kids that have suffered at the hands of the IRA is unmessurable(sp). If you take into account the ones that have been brainwashed over the years by the so-called fight for the "cause", then you are looking at a whole generation of youth who have a hatred for half of a country they have'nt even met.

What about all the killings over the whole of Europe and Britian at the hands of the IRA? Blowing up whole families in cars in Germany and Holland?

Slaughtering kids in bombings in Manchester?

Please wun, do'nt try to defend any terrorist acts the IRA have commited. I have seen what they can do first hand and believe me when I say this, they have no moral code.

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Babs

I agree with you Stellar...no deals with terrorist scum!

........everybody gets hurt then. I believe the Russians did an excellent job.

Edited by Babs

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Lottie
Trying to talk to them and "make a deal" will only hurt more people.

I agree. With scum (I cannot call them people) like this there is no talking to them anyway. The only way forward is as Wurm has said join ranks forces and put an end to this once and for all. Thing is as I have said in the past if it was not for the tip toeing and pc attitudes in the first instance and we had come down hard and fast than maybe this whole sad drawn out situation would of been dealt with better.

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Lottie

Latest from the BBC: Link here

Agony as school death toll rises

Relatives of victims of the school hostage siege in southern Russia are facing an agonising wait for news as the death toll rises.

More than 320 bodies have been pulled from the rubble of the school so far, officials say, the day after the siege ended in a bloodbath.

People have been scouring the wards of local hospitals and searching through corpses at the morgue.

Meanwhile President Putin visited some of the hundreds wounded in the siege.

Work to clear the school has been slowed by the presence of mines in the building, where militants demanding Chechen independence held children and adults for three days.

Smoke still hung over the building, in the North Ossetian town of Beslan.

A Russian Deputy Prosecutor General Sergei Fridinsky said bodies were still being identified - 322 had been so far recovered, 155 of them children.

"These are not the final figures, and they will probably grow, but not by too much," he said.

Agonising wait

A large number of the dead and wounded are believed to be children who were celebrating the start of the new school year with parents and staff when they were seized by militants on Wednesday morning.

How the siege ended

Many people still do not know whether their children survived as the overstretched hospitals have been too busy performing emergency surgery on casualties to issue the names of all those being treated.

One woman, who was looking for her nephew, told the BBC what she saw.

"I've been to the morgue to look for him," she said. "There were so many bodies - so many small children. I saw one woman sitting there stroking the heads of two children, she didn't even have the strength left to cry."

Mr Putin told survivors at a Beslan hospital that the whole of Russia grieved for the victims of the siege and he appeared to reject any blame for its bloody outcome.

Commandos went into action after a series of explosions inside the school, at least one of which appears to have been the accidental detonation of a bomb planted by the militants.

If the toddlers started to cry, the fighters would fire blanks in the air

Mr Putin said there had been no plans to storm the school.

"Events unfolded quite quickly and unexpectedly, according to a logic of their own," he said.

The Russian leader, known for his hard line on Chechen separatism, told security officials in Beslan that the attackers had sought to "stoke ethnic hatred" across the Russian North Caucasus.

"Anyone who will feels sympathetic towards such provocations will be viewed as accomplices of terrorists and terrorism," he said.

Hunt for militants

North Ossetia's borders, which extend to Chechnya itself, have been sealed in the hunt for up to four militants believed to have escaped during the melee on Friday.

A Russian commander said troops had been hindered in their efforts to secure the school by crowds of local people, many of them armed, desperately trying to reach their relatives inside the school.

A police source told Russian news agency Interfax that 10 commandos had died in the fighting and 18 were wounded.

The Russian security forces have said they killed 27 militants and captured three at the school.

"Anyone who will feels sympathetic towards such provocations will be viewed as accomplices of terrorists and terrorism," he said.

Exactly and I hope they get one in the neck as well.

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wunarmdscissor

gollum i didnt try to defend ANYONE what are you talking about.

If you notice i did say they had committed barbaric acts.

The IRA are scum as well.

All i said was that even they never did anything as blatantly aimed at children.

I do agree with what you said about the punishment beatings, and they still go on today shockingly.

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