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Erikl

BREAKING NEWS: Attackers seize Russian school

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Lottie

HOW WILL CHILDREN COPE WITH TRAUMA?

The children involved in the Russian school siege have gone through a life-changing experience which could have long-term effects on their mental health, say psychologists.

Although the immediate priority is to treat them for the visible wounds, the psychological damage will need an equal amount of attention.

They have been through what psychologists term a "critical incident", and need help in managing the inevitable trauma that surfaces afterwards.

If the same type of incident were to happen in the UK, most education authorities have a crisis response plan to deal with the situation as it unfolds and the repercussions that follow.

Educational psychologist Peter Norman said: "We have to work with senior members of staff, and give support to the adults who have to support the children who have been involved in a serious incident.

"The last thing a child needs is a stranger coming in to talk to them - they need people they know and trust, like their parents or teachers."

He said it would not be appropriate for himself and his team to go wading in, telling them what to do.

Behaviour changes

Mr Norman's experience of dealing with such situations has evolved over the past 30 years.

He said children would respond to the situation differently, depending on their personality and life experiences.

" A three-day exposure to trauma for a 10-year-old is not something they will get over easily..."

Peter Norman

Educational psychologist

Some will be more vulnerable than others, especially any who come from a dysfunctional family background or have emotional or learning difficulties.

Teachers would be briefed to look out for any changes in behaviour among these children in particular, and warned they might need extra support.

Most children's coping mechanisms will be overwhelmed by such a major and shocking experience.

"In Russia, these children have been exposed for a very long period of time," said Mr Norman.

"You have to say: 'It's not you that's abnormal it's the situation that's abnormal'."

Warning signs

Younger children may feel insecure and will need to be reunited as quickly as possible with their parents.

Older children may experience panic attacks or be unable to return to the place where the incident happened.

They may also suffer from powerful flashbacks or powerful dreams.

"A three-day exposure to trauma for a 10-year-old is not something they will get over easily," said Mr Norman.

They may become withdrawn or engage in excessive talking about the incident.

Others will experience extreme mood swings, or their behaviour might become aggressive or abusive.

These are all warning signs that parents and teachers are asked to look out for.

Drawing

Psychologists will work with children according to their needs.

It may be that they will get through this by talking things through in small groups or individually.

Another form of therapy is for children to express their thoughts through art and drawing, especially the younger children.

If the symptoms continue and develop into the more serious post traumatic stress disorder, they will need greater support and a more detailed programme of therapy with a clinical psychologist.

"You do as much as you can to prevent it from developing into that," said Mr Norman.

Clinical psychologist Helen Street said: "The earlier treatment is given, the better and the earlier you show the child their world is a safe place and not everything is a threat, then the earlier they can get back on track."

SOURCE: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3625766.stm

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LoPar

To stamp terrorism out a united effort has to be made keeping in mind there will be many casualities along the way. As terrorists become more desparate they will turn to acts like in Russia. How strong is the political will of the world when faced with terrorists as in Russia. Some countries bowed to terrorists in Iraq when a few men were held hostage and threatened with death. How many countries will not back down to demands when hundreds of children are held hostage. What would the US have done? What would Scotland, Australia, or Canada have done?

In regards to Muslim support there may be some. The muslim community in France condemned the terrorists that are holding the two french reporters hostage.

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Lottie

RUSSIA BLASTS EU SEIGE STATEMENT

MOSCOW/VALKENBURG, Netherlands (Reuters) - Russia has branded "blasphemous" a request by the European Union's Dutch presidency for an explanation to the bloody end of a mass hostage seizure at a school by Chechen gunmen.

Some EU foreign ministers appeared to back away from the call by Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot, saying it was wrong to question Russia's handling of the tragedy, and a Dutch spokesman said on Saturday Bot had only been seeking information.

More than 320 people, almost half of them children, were found dead after troops stormed a school in the southern Russian town of Beslan, where the separatists held more than 1,000 hostages for 53 hours.

In a statement in the name of the presidency of the 25-nation EU, Bot said on Friday that all countries should work together to stop such tragedies.

"But we also would like to know from the Russian authorities how this tragedy could have happened," he added.

The Russian Foreign Ministry reacted with outrage.

"Mr. Bot's elaborations are an absolute contrast with the wide international support and solidarity with Russia in these tragic days," the ministry statement said.

"Inappropriate statements by the Dutch minister look odious ... and blasphemous," it added. "We expect explanations from the Dutch side."

At Valkenburg in the Netherlands, where the EU ministers were meeting, Swedish Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds told reporters she understood the Russian reaction and Irish Foreign Minister Brian Cowen said it would be "a very premature and wrong judgement" to fault the Russian security forces.

But diplomats said that in the EU meeting, former Soviet republic Latvia said the Union should react more strongly to the Russian handling of the end of the siege.

Interfax news agency later said that the Dutch ambassador had been summoned to the Foreign Ministry over Bot's statement.

A Dutch Foreign Ministry spokesman said the minister had never intended to criticise Russian actions.

"Because of the large number of casualties, in order to understand better what happened, he'd like information about what happened. He did not say the Russians did something wrong," the spokesman said.

"The Russian government has taken this like a criticism, which was not the intention of the minister," he said.

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wunarmdscissor

yeah ut they dont put much effort into their condemnation, yet the anti-war protesters where in the millions an many many many were muslims.

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Talon
Please wun, do'nt try to defend any terrorist acts the IRA have commited. I have seen what they can do first hand and believe me when I say this, they have no moral code.

I don't think anyone is trying to say their not terrorist scum.

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Talon

'WE SHOWED WEAKNESS'

Russia's President Vladimir Putin has said his country had shown weakness in the face of danger and most now respond to the threat of terrorism.

"We did not understand the complexity and the danger of the process which was emerging in our country and in the entire world," Putin said of the school hostage crisis in which at least 330 people are now known to have died.

"We did not know how to react in the appropriate fashion. We have showed weakness in the face of danger and the weak get beaten up," he said in a televised address.

Officials in North Ossetia say 156 children were among the dead in Beslan, as well as parents, school teachers and Russian special forces.

It is believed 32 terrorists died when Russian troops stormed the building after an explosion and gunfire were heard inside.

It is not known if any of the gunmen - believed to include Arab mercenaries - escaped.

Monday and Tuesday have been declared national days of mourning.

There are reports that the explosives and arms used by the gunmen were smuggled into the school in summer during building work.

An estimated 700 are in hospital, most of them children. Some are badly injured.

On Saturday morning, Mr Putin visited the hospital where hundreds of wounded are being treated.

He ordered security forces to seal Beslan and close the border between Chechnya and North Ossetia.

"All Russia grieves with you," said Mr Putin during a meeting with local officials."Even alongside the most cruel attacks of the past, this terrorist act occupies a special place because it was aimed at children," he added.

There has been worldwide condemnation of the siege and messages of condolence including one from the Queen.

So far no group has claimed responsibility for the siege.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13213119,00.html

MOSCOW/VALKENBURG, Netherlands (Reuters) - Russia has branded "blasphemous" a request by the European Union's Dutch presidency for an explanation to the bloody end of a mass hostage seizure at a school by Chechen gunmen.

I'm not surprised. People should stop attacking Russia. Yes the take out of the terrorists was a disaster, however, it was because their special forces were not on the scene and carrying out the mission. Instead a bomb went off, child fled in panic, the terrorist scum began shooting them, and the regular Russian army had to make a split second desicion on whether to go in or not without a plan and without the special forces. They made the correct choice, cause if they had decided to wait to form a plan, or wait for the special forces, then even more of those fleeing children would have been shot.

The only thing that we can say is that the special forces, should have been on the site before, and a plan should have been on the table. However the hostages were children, and because of that they were determined to try and negotate it out to get everyone else out. And the fact is, every other western nation would have done the exact same thing.

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Talon

SCHOOL SIEGE TOLL CLIMBING

Officials in Beslan say 260 people are still missing after the school siege which has devastated the town.

It raises the prospect that over 600 adults and children lost their lives during the three day drama - almost twice the earlier estimate.

This morning the death toll was put at just under 370 including the 35 gunmen, who were all killed when troops stormed the building.

The news of the higher casualty rate camer as residents of Beslan prepared to bury the victims of the siege.

Russian president Vladimir Putin has vowed to reform the country's security services after the disastrous end to the three-day drama in North Ossetia.

Mr Putin admitted the country had not been ready to deal with the threat from militants.

"We showed weakness, and weak people are beaten," he said in an address on national television.

He confirmed he would authorise more funding for security forces and border controls.

"What happened was a terrorist act that was inhuman and unprecedented in its cruelty.

"This is not just a challenge to the president, or to the parliament, but the whole of Russia," he said.

Muslim separatists, including Arab mercenaries, are believed to have been responsible for the siege.

The kidnappers had demanded Russian troops withdraw from Chechnya in return for the safe release of the hostages.

Relatives of the deceased have been allowed to enter the burned out shell of the school gymnasium where 1,000 people were held for 62 hours.

Others scoured lists of names to see if their loved ones had survived when commandos stormed the building after hearing explosions.

Officials said earlier 333 people including 156 children had been killed and more than 540 people were injured - mostly school pupils.

Around 450 people are still being treated in hospital.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13214642,00.html

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Talon

BESLAN BURIES ITS DEAD

The first victims of the Russian school atrocity have been buried in Beslan.

The town is still trying to come to terms with Friday's massacre that left at least 323 people dead, 156 of them children.

The total number of dead is expected to rise further. Several people died in hospital overnight, three of them children.

Around 400 people are still receiving medical treatment.

Some of the injured have yet to be identified and their photographs are being circulated to help family members track them down.

The situation in Beslan remains tense.

Security officials have closed the nearby border with Chechnya and have placed a cordon around the town to stop revenge attacks.Two days of national mourning are being held on Monday and Tuesday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has vowed to reform the country's security services after the bloody end to the siege.

Mr Putin admitted the country was not ready to deal with the threat from militants - believed to be Muslim separatists, including Arab mercenaries.

He confirmed he would authorise more funding for security forces and border controls.

The kidnappers had demanded Russian troops withdraw from Chechnya in return for the safe release of the hostages.

Relatives of the deceased have been allowed to enter the burned out shell of the school gymnasium where 1,000 people were held for 62 hours.

Others scoured lists of names to see if their loved ones had survived.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13214642,00.html

I hope from now on the Russians just go in on the frist night, rather than try and negotate, these guys arn't interested in talk.

Even the SAS was on the news today saying they would have gine in on night one, since from the fact they were not feeding the hostages was evidence they were not planning to see out a siege, and also because it gave the time to dig in.

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Lottie

Military crackdown offers no solution

FRASER NELSON

FOR Vladimir Putin, the verdict is clear cut: "We are witnessing a direct intervention by international terrorism against Russia, an all-out, cruel and full-scale war that again and again claims the lives of our compatriots."

But while the world has been horrified by the pictures of death emerging from the North Ossetia school, sympathy has not been matched by political solidarity for the Russian prime minister. This is because London and Washington have for the last six years been looking on in alarm as Russia waged its campaign against Chechens fighting for independence. The West agrees: Russia has the chance to resolve this threat by diplomacy.

Since deciding to crush the Chechen rebellion after the collapse of the Soviet Union, leaders in Moscow have been promising to settle the issue and bring peace. Six years and 700 Russian lives later, Mr Putin is still not able to put out the flames. The Chechen rebel tactics mutate from conventional battlefield resistance to the kind of slaughter seen last Friday and at the Moscow Theatre siege of October 2002.

Mr Putin has been keen to place the blame on international terrorism, as presumably that would stop Russians asking, "why haven’t you sorted this out yet?" Politically, he needs to portray the situation as being outside his control. But he has never convinced London or Washington that he is up against an enemy more sinister than terrorism serving the aims of nationalism - that is, terrorism, with rational goals.

Although he has claimed on Russian television that ten of the kidnappers were Arabs or Africans - suggesting clear foreign infiltration - he has produced no evidence for this. The best he can say is that there are an increasing number of Islamic fundamentalists among Chechen rebels.

The area’s 710,000 people has always contained moderate Muslims, who are steadily moving towards the more extreme position as the war continues. But unlike al-Qaeda, the Chechens have a specific demand: independence.

Giandomenico Picco, a veteran hostage negotiator for the UN, says this fundamental difference means Mr Putin would be wrong to place his enemy in the same camp as al-Qaeda, whose goals include restoring the Caliphate and make the US into an Islamic theocracy.

The Beslan siege, he says, was "an operation done to make a point". Local Russians have called for talks with moderate Chechen leaders - and for the first time, the Kremlin has not quashed the idea. "Many would say that the Chechen issue has a lot in common with the Northern Ireland issue," says Mr Picco. "It’s only a political issue, and only politics can resolve it."

Thus while Britain has sent every sympathy to Beslan, officials are likely to encourage talks rather than back another military response, which Mr Putin was angling for.

SOURCE: The Scotsman

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Talon

The Scotsman is an extremely right-wing paper, I tend to avoid it were possible myself.

I think its wrong about lack of foriegn involvement. And these b*stards killing kids aren't interested in creating an independent state either. There are always other methods of gaining independence, killing children is the act of a coward, and a murder.

These people were fascist Islamic-extremists, who might have been demanding an independent Chechnya, but who's ultimate goal, and the reason they took such a barbaric path, is the spread of their fundamentalist creed.

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Erikl

An anonymus email in Hebrew that I recieved today:

"TO GOD ALMIGHTY

There is not enough room for the number of candles that I want to light here…

If you’ll explain me, your holiness, what was more important than you’re presence in Beslan last week, I’ll still refuse to understand it…

It’s been a really hard time with you this week, you know?

I can’t understand how you let this thing happen, where were you when they tortured hundreds of children for three days, where were you and what were you doing when the captors started raping you girls, force children to drink their urinate, murder them one by one in front of their friend’s eyes….

Those are little children, so innocent. So you can’t say that this was a punishment for doing something so evil. You also can’t say it was a mistake, because I’m not dreaming. Even if I’ll pinch myself a million times, I won’t wake up from this nightmarish horror, the one which you let happen.

You are responsible for us, do you understand? We are you’re creations, every single one of us, from the smallest ant to the worst evildoers, and sometimes I think you forget that…

On Friday’s evening you answered my own prayers. But I’m just one small kid, and they were hundreds…. And I’m old enough to sin endlessly, and they were so young and innocent…

I have my full faith in you and I love you so very much, but it’s difficult for me to understand so many things about you. You gave me a brain to think, right?

And to ask questions, right?

So here you go – I ask you:

WHY?

To the memories of those hundreds of children,

That the world still doesn’t understand what they’ve been through,

We shall cherish and remember you.

Let’s light a candle for all of them sad.gif"

Edited by Erikl

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Talon

Well I don't beleive in deities so I know why they weren't around. Plus, this why Sera says she has a 'How dare you!' speech for god if he does exist and condemns her for being sinful. Its plastered all over the region threads somewhere.

Edited by Talon S.

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Talon

MASS BURIALS UNDER WAY

The people of Beslan have been burying their relatives and friends as Russia shares two days of official mourning.

The country has struggled to cope after the siege that left more than 330 people dead.

Many more are still in hospital, including nearly 200 children.

Flags have been flying at half-mast across Russia while residents of Beslan wept over dozens of coffins.

The authorities have taken over a soccer-field sized plot of wasteland next to the cemetery to accommodate all the bodies.

The coffins contain the bodies of those victims who have been indentified. A further 100 are being sent away from the area for further analysis.

The remains of books, uniforms, shoes, schoolbags were laid out and hundreds of people worked to prepare the graves.

In the centre of the muddy cemetery, mounds of flowers lay over the graves of those victims buried on Sunday.Relatives, dressed in black, brought more flowers, many hugging each other.

Some placed bottles of water by graves, a tribute to victims whose captors refused to let them drink during the 53-hour ordeal.

As a precaution, mine experts from the Russian army checked the burial sites before the procession began.

Using metal detectors and dogs, they inspected the area where the coffins were to be placed.

Russian soldiers have paraded on TV a man they say is one of the Beslan hostage-takers.

The soldiers, their faces hidden by balaclavas, manhandled the handcuffed suspect for the cameras.

"I did not shoot," the suspect pleaded. "I swear by Allah I want to live."

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13215780,00.html

"I did not shoot," the suspect pleaded. "I swear by Allah I want to live."

And I bet those children wanted to live as well. I hope your death is a slow and painful one.

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Babs

I'm glad Putin has come around...and is seeing that showing a weak front doesn't work. In fact, it invites tragedy. sad.gif

I'm sad that it takes a tragedy to bring this turn-around on terrorism.

911 made Americans turn around.

(Maybe, more people will understand the U.S., now, and our feelings, and not tell us to 'get over it') sad.gif

Edited by Babs

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Talon

Lets not kid ourselves, this is far worse than 9/11 cause it targeted children, rather than infrostructure.

MOURNERS' GRIEF AND RAGE

Russia has ended its first day of mass mourning for the victims of the Beslan school massacre with 100 burials.

Scenes of immense grief brought the nation to a standstill as the enormity of the horrific siege engulfed people.

Friday's butchery of more than 335 children and adults has wrapped Russia in two days of official grieving.

An urgent appeal by the Russian Red cross has seen medicines and hospital equipment sent from France, Germany, Italy and the United States.

Nato is to hold a meeting with Russian diplomats to discuss the causes, handling and outcome of the siege.

The international efforts, though, paled away in comparison to the acute agony being felt by almost every family in Beslan.

Anger is also increasingly emerging at the the insistence by the Russian President that the carnage was the result of international terrorism rather than Chechen separatists.

Vladimir Putin and his government have been accused of failing to acknowledge their part in the events that led up to the murders.

The burials were in a football-field sized plot of wasteland next to the cemetery to accommodate all the bodies.

In the centre of the muddy cemetery, mounds of flowers lay over the graves of those victims buried on Sunday.

Relatives, dressed in black, brought more flowers, many hugging each other.

Some placed bottles of water by graves, a tribute to victims whose captors refused to let them drink during the 53-hour ordeal.

As a precaution, mine experts from the Russian army checked the burial sites before the procession began.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13215780,00.html

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Babs

Thousands of innocent people died including children in 911. I think teachers would have brought bus loads of children to see the world trade center; it was of educational interest ....and those b******* didn't care. sad.gif

Talon wrote:

Let's not kid ourselves, this is far worse than 911...
And this is what I'm talking about_you and a few others trying to lessen the 'horrors of 911'. I don't know if you're stupid or jealous or what, but I do know you are kidding yourself.

And that thing you got about atheism, Talon. 'I hear you' and I used to agree with you...I used to be that way for many years. You will change as you age, I'm pretty sure. There are greater forces out there than you and I, Talon, you just haven't had any 'para' normal experiences. This is your level of being_ for now.

A saying comes to mind, what was it?... It struck me...something like....

"There aren't any atheists in fox holes."

Edited by Babs

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Lottie

No these b******* don't care. As I said many times before we are dealing with people who will readily kill their own Mothers and families.

I am sure there were a few children who lost their lives in 9/11 and whenever a life is taken especially a child it has to be the most evil of crimes. However 9/11 was an attack on America's financial institution and infrastructure. What happened in Russia was purely an attack on children.

Every terrorist attack is pure evil but to me attacking the weak and innocent as what happened to those children is in a league of its own evil and wickedness.

Edited by Lottie

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Babs

Yes, I agree, every terrorist attack is different with it's particular terrors. This is particularly horrifying because of the children.

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Lottie
(Maybe, more people will understand the U.S., now, and our feelings, and not tell us to 'get over it')

Without getting into a huge debate about this. Don't forget the British people for many many years have dealt with Terrorism in the form of the IRA which many Americans supported.

This is not just about America and 9/11. There were many terrorist attacks before 9/11 and have unfortuanetly been more taking place since. Its just that the American goverment when it does not involve them turn a blind eye until it happens on their doorstep and then all hell breaks loose.

Edited by Lottie

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Babs

Understand, Lottie.

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Lottie
Yes, I agree, every terrorist attack is different with it's particular terrors.

Absoloutely. Terrorism is Terrorism on any scale, in any form and is a terrible, wicked thing. What I have witnessed in my front room on the television with 9/11 and now Beslan is something that I never ever imagined in my wildest dreams that I would witness or see. Innocents of all ages, from all cultures, all over the world have the freedom and the right as humans to be safe and secure in our world and this has been taken from them.

What the hell is the world coming to.

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Talon
And this is what I'm talking about_you and a few others trying to lessen the 'horrors of 911'. I don't know if you're stupid or jealous or what, but I do know you are kidding yourself.

Babs, until you can reply to someone like a rational person instead of insulting them, your not even worth my attention, let alone a response.

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Talon

PUTIN IN TALKS SNUB

Russian President Vladimir Putin has refused to speak to Chechen rebels dubbing them "child-killers".

Mr Putin, who is under pressure to restore security in the troubled Northern Caucasus region, maintained he would not enter negotiations.

He has attempted to suppress the uprising with force despite some Western countries suggesting he enter talks.

"Why don't you meet Osama bin Laden, invite him to Brussels or to the White House and engage in talks, ask him what he wants and give it to him so he leaves you in peace?" he said to reporters.

"Why should we talk to people who are child-killers?"

No Pubilc Inquiry

He ruled out a public inquiry into how the siege of a school in Beslan could have ended with more than 300 adults and children dead. Instead an internal investigation will be held.

Meanwhile, some of the terrorists who seized the school in Beslan may not have known what they were getting into, reports said.

Russian news reports suggest some of the 32 gunmen may have objected to holding children hostage.

The militants who protested were then reportedly killed by their comrades.

The lawyer for the only hostage-taker captured by Russian security forces said a fierce argument had broken out at the beginning of the siege.

Umar Sikoyev, who is representing alleged terrorist Nur-Pashi Kulayev, said the militants' leader shot dead the most vocal of those complaining.

Gunmen's Dissent

He then allegedly blew up the explosives belts worn by two women raiders by remote control to restore order.

Kulayev, who has been pictured on television guarded by masked men, has apparently already said he did not shoot any children during the killing spree.

He is alleged to have said the intention of the siege was to "provoke a war across the Caucasus".

He told Russian state television that the hostage-takers were Uzbeks, Arabs and Chechens. A fundamentalist form of Islam has become established in Chechnya and has sympathisers within the region.

Meanwhile, it appears the operation had been planned meticulously.

It is believed weapons and explosives were spirited into the school over weeks or even months.

They may have been disguised among building materials as the floor of the school gym was being renovated, unnamed security sources said.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13216811,00.html

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Lottie
Meanwhile, some of the terrorists who seized the school in Beslan may not have known what they were getting into, reports said.

What a crock of sh**! How can you not know that you are going into a school.

Russian news reports suggest some of the 32 gunmen may have objected to holding children hostage.

In the famous words of Americans...WHATEVER! This is almost laughable if it was not so incredibly sad.

The militants who protested were then reportedly killed by their comrades.

[sarcasm]Wow then it that case we must commend them![/sarcasm]

The lawyer for the only hostage-taker captured by Russian security forces said a fierce argument had broken out at the beginning of the siege.

Umar Sikoyev, who is representing alleged terrorist Nur-Pashi Kulayev, said the militants' leader shot dead the most vocal of those complaining.

My heart bleeds...this has got to be the biggest bunch of BS I have read for some time! And what the world is really going to believe this drivel? Makes me sick! The Lawyer needs to be put down as well!

Edited by Lottie

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Babs
And this is what I'm talking about_you and a few others trying to lessen the 'horrors of 911'. I don't know if you're stupid or jealous or what, but I do know you are kidding yourself.

Babs, until you can reply to someone like a rational person instead of insulting them, your not even worth my attention, let alone a response.

258054[/snapback]

I hope that people will have compassion for the U.S. and understand what's driving us now. And, Talon, you have an enormous ego.

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