A lady suspected of witchcraft, shot dead.

[stevefork]

Stupidity and ignorance knows no bounds it seems.

http://ph.news.yahoo.com/cotabato-lady-evangelist-shot-dead-witchcraft-170410624.html

Edited August 21, 2011 by stevefork

[Xanthurion2]

Stupidity and ignorance knows no bounds it seems.

couldn't have said it better myself

[Beckys_Mom]

Just when you thought witch killing was long dead...

[arglebargle]

This goes on in large parts of Africa. In some places they burn them.

[Beckys_Mom]

This goes on in large parts of Africa. In some places they burn them.

I know, I saw it for myself on a channel 4 doucumentary - Africa's witch Children... That's what happens when evangelist christians introduce Christinaity.. It was shocking to see such carnage ..We have had a couple of thread on that very documentary ...

[arglebargle]

I know, I saw it for myself on a channel 4 doucumentary - Africa's witch Children... That's what happens when evangelist christians introduce Christinaity.. It was shocking to see such carnage ..We have had a couple of thread on that very documentary ...

Yeah, but the hindus aren't that much better with their fakir medicine, as we also had a thread on, and the muslims with their weird laws about sexual morality which christianity stopped following ages ago, and the aztecs and other south american tribes thought you should perform child sacrifices of young virgin girls by carving their hearts out and either burning the body or cannibalizing it so the sun would come up the next day. On the opening of a new temple I seem to recall five thousand people being put to death, in honor of the gods. So it's not just the christians who have (or have had) a good time with this type of thing.

But to be fair, they are just following their faith "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." It says so in the good book, and they're just following what they believe to be true - just like the people who suppress the teaching of evolution and cosmology, or those who slaughter animals halal style which I'm told causes the animal extreme pain in the time it takes to die, or the vow of chastity put upon priests which drives their urges into living out their sexuality (the strongest urge known to man, mind you) by preying on defenseless childrens naivity, and threatens them with eternal torture if they talk. Or ritual suicide on places like camp davidian or jonestown, or the people who will inevitably go berserk shortly before december 21st 2012 - because they think the world is coming to an end, so then they can rape and kill and steal and do whatever they want because its all gonna end anyway - or the mormons who used to claim blacks were cursed by god - it was an officially racist organization for a long time, or the scientologists who scam people out of their money by telling them they're possessed by thetans or whatever the hell they're called, and the best way to get them out is to give them a lot of money - which has actually led to a number of suicides because people couldn't bear that information - and couldn't afford paying to have the "thetans" removed.

Or the egyptians, vikings, and a vaaast number of people who thought people could take property into death, leaving behind the majority of a country's natural resources in the form of gold and gems in the ground with a rotting corpse instead of providing wealth for the living, and incidentally, sometimes animals and people would be put to death with them, so they could have companions in the afterlife. Or how the christians used to perform exorcisms on mentally disturbed people (still goes on apparently, because the vatican still has a 'chief exorcist' which claims the devil resides in the vatican, or the spanish inquisition who justified their horrific torture of mostly innocent people through the good book, their methods of torture would be things like thumb, neck and head screws which you tightened milimeter by milimeter until the bones cracked and then some, or poking hot coals in peoples eyes and open wounds, salting wounds, giving people infections and leaving them to suffer the diseases without medical attention, iron maidens which impaled people but depending on the length of spikes did not neccesarily kill, knives under the fingernails, starvation, a number of very disturbing methods of torturing people in the name of the light.

Then you have japanese harakiri, the ritual suicide for people who feel they've failed on the part of their personal honor. Would do a stagedive onto their katana swords. The list of atrocities committed in the name of religion and faith (belief without evidence) is almost limitless, I could literally rant on for days, but I think this more than proves my point.

Okay, sure, secular people have done nasty things too, but they didn't get the idea from secularism itself, it doesn't concern itself with what type of thing. You wouldn't go from the default position of "show me evidence and maybe we'll talk" to "Kill ALL the things!" so there's really no comparison, in case anyone thinks there is, I thought I should address that in this very post.

/end tirade.

[Beastly Decimal]

Sir Ranyhyn, you seem to have (unintentionally, I'm sure) misrepresented the religion of Islam. First, I shall point out that whatever source told you halal slaughter is painful has you terribly confused. The halal slaughter is specially designed to give the animal as little pain as possible. You are you slice the neck of the animal when it is at an age suitable for consumption. You are to slice quickly (to make the death as swift as possible) and you aren't supposed to let the animal see the blade before they die. Also, all throughout that animals life it is to be treated as if it were a beloved family member; you cannot torture an animal then give it a "halal" death and expect God to look upon your sacrifice with favor. I don't know a single religion on earth that treats animals with so much respect (except perhaps religions where meat is forbidden).

Also, you pointed out "the muslims with their weird laws about sexual morality which the Christians stopped following ages ago". Let's get one thing straight: a man cannot reproduce with another man, nor can a woman reproduce with another woman. If they cannot reproduce, then they are just "playing". Both Christianity and Islam forbid "playing" around with sex, unless you are married. Isn't that what Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for?

I hate to see a religion or culture misrepresented; some people aren't as educated as others and would immediately take something as true because they don't know any better. From a moral standpoint this gunning looks bad - from most religious standpoints it looks bad - but these "gunmen" obviously didn't know any better. Don't knock the entire world's culture because some bozos decide they'll off a "witch".

[Hideout]

Don't knock the entire world's culture because some bozos decide they'll off a "witch".

[arglebargle]

Sir Ranyhyn, you seem to have (unintentionally, I'm sure) misrepresented the religion of Islam. First, I shall point out that whatever source told you halal slaughter is painful has you terribly confused. The halal slaughter is specially designed to give the animal as little pain as possible. You are you slice the neck of the animal when it is at an age suitable for consumption. You are to slice quickly (to make the death as swift as possible) and you aren't supposed to let the animal see the blade before they die. Also, all throughout that animals life it is to be treated as if it were a beloved family member; you cannot torture an animal then give it a "halal" death and expect God to look upon your sacrifice with favor. I don't know a single religion on earth that treats animals with so much respect (except perhaps religions where meat is forbidden).

*SNIP - please keep in mind that we have young members watching this. It is also unnecessary to inflame the situation by targeted insults* This is infinitely more painful and drawn out than a boltgun to the head which leaves the animal dead instantaneously.

Also, you pointed out "the muslims with their weird laws about sexual morality which the Christians stopped following ages ago". Let's get one thing straight: a man cannot reproduce with another man, nor can a woman reproduce with another woman. If they cannot reproduce, then they are just "playing". Both Christianity and Islam forbid "playing" around with sex, unless you are married. Isn't that what Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for?

Stoning women who as much as look at another man does happen quite frequently in some islamic countries, it is justified through islam. Stoning women who were raped too. Stoning women who dishonor their family somehow. There's a lot of that going on. Stoning people of any gender who has the misfortune of having fallen in love with someone of the same gender in an abrahamic country is not right, despite the fact that they cannot mate, they can still love eachother just as much as a man and a woman can. Relationships are not just about procreation, the desert dogmas have no place in our world and should have been left behind in the iron age where it belonged. And I did give examples of how other religions were messed up, so don't play the "i'm offended by this misrepresentation of islam" card. Your religion was no worse than the rest, but it is now, because christianity, judaism, hindusim, buddhism, asatru, wicca, and other systems of faith have left behind the compulsory murder of people who disagree with their doctrines. I will make no apologies for my hatred for religion, least of all Islam. There's a word called 'islamophobia' but that is a nonsense word, there really is a reason to fear Islam. Same thing with all religion as I said. I have nothing against people from the middle east or any other geographical area, I do have something against people who think this sort of thing is acceptable behaviour:

*snip video - unnecessary*

I hate to see a religion or culture misrepresented; some people aren't as educated as others and would immediately take something as true because they don't know any better. From a moral standpoint this gunning looks bad - from most religious standpoints it looks bad - but these "gunmen" obviously didn't know any better. Don't knock the entire world's culture because some bozos decide they'll off a "witch".

"Some bozos" Yes. Quite. It is commanded in abrahamic religions to hunt down and kill witches - or else you will face the wrath of god. That's not "some bozos" - today it is "some bozos" but the religions themselves command all believers to follow it. And that's far from the only negative aspect to religion. The fact that it teaches people to settle for easy answers, the fact that it sinks its fangs into little children whose ability to think critically is not yet fully developed, in order to indoctrinate them that an invisible father figure in heaven asks them to live in a certain way, supressing human nature on pain of death and eternal torture. And then to say this god loves you. It's the essence of machochism and it's making me sick.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Paranoid Android

[WoIverine]

I know, I saw it for myself on a channel 4 doucumentary - Africa's witch Children... That's what happens when evangelist christians introduce Christinaity.. It was shocking to see such carnage ..We have had a couple of thread on that very documentary ...

Yes, because after all, it is the 1500's we live in, you know. Witches must be burned at the stake, beheaded, or shot, and those HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE Christians must be blamed because everything is all THEIR fault, even 500 years later! All of the carnage going on in Africa...it's ALL Christianity's fault, every bit of it!

Side Note: Documentaries are ALWAYS truthful, and NEVER, EVER slant anything in an untruthful, or bad light, EVER!

Edited August 23, 2011 by Spid3rCyd3

[arglebargle]

Yes, because after all, it is the 1500's we live in, you know. Witches must be burned at the stake, beheaded, or shot, and those HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE Christians must be blamed because everything is all THEIR fault, even 500 years later! All of the carnage going on in Africa...it's ALL Christianity's fault, every bit of it!

Side Note: Documentaries are ALWAYS truthful, and NEVER, EVER slant anything in an untruthful, or bad light, EVER!

It's actually happening. All over africa, they've reverted to thinking witches are actually real. And they burn, shoot or otherwise dispose of them.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_petraitis/witch_killers.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24759141/ns/world_news-africa/t/kenya-mob-reportedly-burns-witches/#.TlO2nqh8PN0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/african-children-denounce_n_324943.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/scandal-of-the-children-killed-for-witchcraft-1003968.html

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/20165/modern_day_witch_hunt_in_south_africa.html

http://www.inewsit.com/video/gallery/Five-people-suspected-to-be-witchcrafts-were-bruterly-murded-in-kisii-Nyamataro-Village

http://www.liberatedthinking.com/data/Library/Paganism/Pagan%20History%20and%20Facts/Witchhunts%20in%20Africa.htm

http://www.iheu.org/node/2856

But you're right, it's not happening and nor is it encouraged by Christian pastors. Good to know you acknowledge the world you live in.

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"

*SNIP - Ranyhyn, thank you for your contributions but please be aware that we have children as young as 13 who are registered members (and some younger who may be reading as viewers). This is a family-friendly site, so please keep this in mind when making your points - graphic videos of violence (for any reason) are generally unacceptable on these boards. Thank you for your cooperation* ~ PA

Yes. We wouldn't want to upset anyone with facts would we.

One question though, PA. How are people supposed to make informed choices if they're denied vital bits of information?

Edited August 23, 2011 by Ranyhyn

[WoIverine]

Sorry for the sarcastic tirade up there. Feels like a monday.

[arglebargle]

Hmm. Come to think of it, that the videos were edited out was a good thing. It is disturbing, and it proves my point that halal slaughter is disgusting and torture of animals, that modern day witch burnings are very much real - and grotesque, and that people are brutally murdered by stoning - and we know why.

So I got to prove my point regardless.

[WoIverine]

and we know why.

Because they're mostly uneducated 3rd world barbarians?

[arglebargle]

Because they're mostly uneducated 3rd world barbarians?

That explains why they think witches exist. You need the religion to figure out that you must light them on fire, or else skydaddy gets mad.

[WoIverine]

That explains why they think witches exist. You need the religion to figure out that you must light them on fire, or else skydaddy gets mad.

LOL!

Edited August 23, 2011 by Spid3rCyd3

[Beckys_Mom]

Yes, because after all, it is the 1500's we live in, you know. Witches must be burned at the stake, beheaded, or shot, and those HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE Christians must be blamed because everything is all THEIR fault, even 500 years later! All of the carnage going on in Africa...it's ALL Christianity's fault, every bit of it!

Side Note: Documentaries are ALWAYS truthful, and NEVER, EVER slant anything in an untruthful, or bad light, EVER!

Side note...Channel 4's - Saving Africa's Witch Children is a serious real life documentary...and a sad disturbing one.... There are charities that support it to get these children help.... It is not something to mock...

If you have any interest in actually seeing and reading about it.. and maybe caring

check it out --> http://www.channel4....ies-8/episode-1

If you have actually seen it.. and still mocked.. I would be very disappointed in that behaviour ..I said IF... I cannot see anyone who has seen it would ever say anything sarcastic about it . And yes it has everything to do with Christianity... If you saw the documentary... it explains how it all began ... It was a different culture, once introduced to Christianity... it later swirled out of control ... Locking children up and beating them.. Saying that if a child under 2 yrs old cries at night, its the devils spawn.... The treatment of children over there was brutal...

There are ways to follow christianity... The good way......OR the wrong way... Fact

Edited August 23, 2011 by Beckys_Mom

[Beastly Decimal]

Stoning women who as much as look at another man does happen quite frequently in some islamic countries, it is justified through islam. Stoning women who were raped too. Stoning women who dishonor their family somehow.

OK, firstly, let me point out that what happens in Islamic countries does not represent the religion of Islam. Islam means "submitting ones will to do God's will", derived from the Arabic word Salam, meaning "peace". The Qur'an does not in any way tell women to be stoned for the reasons you've put forth. If you do not own a Qur'an, I suggest you get one and read it yourself rather than relying on online sources for your information. As I'm sure you know, Islam is often misrepresented on the web, and any other place I should add.

If there is anything happening in an "Islamic" country that seems outright wrong, it usually is. The Islamic countries of the Middle East have been corrupted greatly, straying from the path laid out in the Sunnah of the Prophet and the Qur'an. Muslims in America, I assure you, do not stone those accused of being "witches", nor does it stone women of any kind...

Your religion was no worse than the rest, but it is now, because christianity, judaism, hindusim, buddhism, asatru, wicca, and other systems of faith have left behind the compulsory murder of people who disagree with their doctrines.

There is no, and I repeat, there is no compulsory murder anywhere in the Islamic texts, and if you see a "Muslim" practicing them, they've gotten them from their false deities, not from any teachings of true Islam.

[arglebargle]

OK, firstly, let me point out that what happens in Islamic countries does not represent the religion of Islam. Islam means "submitting ones will to do God's will", derived from the Arabic word Salam, meaning "peace". The Qur'an does not in any way tell women to be stoned for the reasons you've put forth. If you do not own a Qur'an, I suggest you get one and read it yourself rather than relying on online sources for your information. As I'm sure you know, Islam is often misrepresented on the web, and any other place I should add.

If there is anything happening in an "Islamic" country that seems outright wrong, it usually is. The Islamic countries of the Middle East have been corrupted greatly, straying from the path laid out in the Sunnah of the Prophet and the Qur'an. Muslims in America, I assure you, do not stone those accused of being "witches", nor does it stone women of any kind...

There is no, and I repeat, there is no compulsory murder anywhere in the Islamic texts, and if you see a "Muslim" practicing them, they've gotten them from their false deities, not from any teachings of true Islam.

Hadith and Shariah. Or are they not islamic texts?

Also, you seem to think it's a good thing to willingly make yourself a serf to god. I do not think that is good or moral, I think that is fundamentally sick, and it is a concept that underpins all religion. It's the wish to be subjugated, a fear of standing on one's own two feet, and take full responsibility for one's actions.

[Beastly Decimal]

Hadith and Shariah. Or are they not islamic texts?

Also, you seem to think it's a good thing to willingly make yourself a serf to god. I do not think that is good or moral, I think that is fundamentally sick, and it is a concept that underpins all religion. It's the wish to be subjugated, a fear of standing on one's own two feet, and take full responsibility for one's actions.

OK, buddy, let me stop you there. This is going to take some real brain work, so bear with me on this...even I don't fully understand it.

The Hadith are sayings of the Prophet, advice he gave to followers, etc. But the Hadith were corrupted. Firstly, let's take the Sunni and the Shi'a. After the Prophet's passing, they - through whatever rogue thoughts of their own, certainly not anything he told them - decided they would follow his descendants as if they were "prophets". Since they believed the descendants to be "prophets", they recorded their sayings as Hadith also. The web of Hadith is thick and corrupted. Also, there is a group of people who sought to destroy the integrity of the Hadith; they distributed numerous false Hadith and had them mixed in with true Hadith.

The general consensus among righteous Muslims is if the Hadith doesn't coincide the teachings of the Qur'an (the primary Islamic text) then it is to be ignored as if false. Many of your arguments may have come from false Hadith. If you want the truth, go to the Qur'an and it will give it to you. (I do not claim that Islam is the only truth, as God's truth is everywhere.)

It's the wish to be subjugated, a fear of standing on one's own two feet, and take full responsibility for one's actions.

Religion is a form of faith in God. I repeat: religion is a form of faith in God. I'm sure there are those who haven't devoted themselves to a particular religion who will find themselves in heaven, because they weren't arrogant enough to presume they are the only sentient beings within a trillion kabillion light-years. Religion isn't necessarily the best form of faith, and in the future perhaps humans will find another way - a more advanced way - to commune with God; but until then, I'm afraid we'll have to put up with the B.S. most religions dish out and seek the good. There is plenty of good to be found in Islam.

[arglebargle]

OK, buddy, let me stop you there. This is going to take some real brain work, so bear with me on this...even I don't fully understand it.

The Hadith are sayings of the Prophet, advice he gave to followers, etc. But the Hadith were corrupted. Firstly, let's take the Sunni and the Shi'a. After the Prophet's passing, they - through whatever rogue thoughts of their own, certainly not anything he told them - decided they would follow his descendants as if they were "prophets". Since they believed the descendants to be "prophets", they recorded their sayings as Hadith also. The web of Hadith is thick and corrupted. Also, there is a group of people who sought to destroy the integrity of the Hadith; they distributed numerous false Hadith and had them mixed in with true Hadith.

The general consensus among righteous Muslims is if the Hadith doesn't coincide the teachings of the Qur'an (the primary Islamic text) then it is to be ignored as if false. Many of your arguments may have come from false Hadith. If you want the truth, go to the Qur'an and it will give it to you. (I do not claim that Islam is the only truth, as God's truth is everywhere.)

Religion is a form of faith in God. I repeat: religion is a form of faith in God. I'm sure there are those who haven't devoted themselves to a particular religion who will find themselves in heaven, because they weren't arrogant enough to presume they are the only sentient beings within a trillion kabillion light-years. Religion isn't necessarily the best form of faith, and in the future perhaps humans will find another way - a more advanced way - to commune with God; but until then, I'm afraid we'll have to put up with the B.S. most religions dish out and seek the good. There is plenty of good to be found in Islam.

So you're saying I should disregard entirely what's done because of the hadith and the qur'an and pretend like it has nothing to do with islam? Interesting, but I can do that.

What does the qur'an say about apostates? Does the qur'an not say that all non-muslims will go to hell, that all muslims have a duty to fight for islam and that they should not relent until the entire world follows the teachings of islam, that the unbelievers shall be put to death and spared only if they accept the teachings of islam? I think you will find that it does, if you care to read it

Here's a few examples:

Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 3:10

Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 3:4

Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257

War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216

Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell. 2:206

Apostates will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 3:86-88

Those who die fighting for Allah will go to heaven. 3:195b

Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56

If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91

Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 4:137

For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:160-1

"Fear Me! 5:3

Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 5:38

Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73

Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72

Those who deny the truth of Islam will be punished by Allah. 6:5

Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 6:70

When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 6:93

The worst thing anyone can do is deny the revelations of Allah. Those who do so will be awared an evil doom. 6:157

How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them. 7:4-5

"So We sent against them the flood and the locusts and the vermin and the frogs and the blood - a succession of clear signs." 7:133

Those who worship the calf will suffer terror and humiliation from Allah. 7:152

...and then he flew his magical unicorn into the sunset with his 8 year old wife before he sexually abused her and scarred her for life. The end. \ o /

Oh wait, that was the prophet. Still, happy ending.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Ranyhyn

[WoIverine]

Side note...Channel 4's - Saving Africa's Witch Children is a serious real life documentary...and a sad disturbing one.... There are charities that support it to get these children help.... It is not something to mock...

If you have any interest in actually seeing and reading about it.. and maybe caring

check it out --> http://www.channel4....ies-8/episode-1

If you have actually seen it.. and still mocked.. I would be very disappointed in that behaviour ..I said IF... I cannot see anyone who has seen it would ever say anything sarcastic about it . And yes it has everything to do with Christianity... If you saw the documentary... it explains how it all began ... It was a different culture, once introduced to Christianity... it later swirled out of control ... Locking children up and beating them.. Saying that if a child under 2 yrs old cries at night, its the devils spawn.... The treatment of children over there was brutal...

There are ways to follow christianity... The good way......OR the wrong way... Fact

Be careful of your generalizations.

[Beckys_Mom]

Those who die fighting for Allah will go to heaven. 3:195b

To think that single short sentence.. fuelled so many to think fighting and killing people in gods name would take them to heaven.... How one little sentence can fool so many is absolutely astonishing... If you were to go back in time and have the one line taken out., would there be as many Islamic terrorists? Or would someone else have written it in later ??

[Beckys_Mom]

Be careful of your generalizations.

I am....I am serious with all things like this... No one should be quick to mock and put things like this down... It is not decent and thoughtful behaviour .. Things like this go on in places you or I have never been...

[Beastly Decimal]

Disbelievers (as in atheists who think they can do whatever they please and not be punished). It says nothing about other faiths that believe righteously (righteous Christians, Jews, etc.). Worshiping an animal - one of God's creatures - or worshiping multiple gods is the highest order of blasphemy. God has created everything, and, as the all powerful Creator, has the right to dispose of His Creation as He sees fit.

There is one other thing I should point out, something you're probably already aware of. But I'll cite it on the off chance you are unaware. The Qur'an was revealed in Arabic, and no matter what you do with it, you cannot understand it completely unless you understand Arabic. Some of those who have translated the Qur'an don't speak English quite as fluently as would be effective, and as a result some of these translated Qur'ans aren't correctly getting the message across. Also, the Qur'an is, much like the Bible, a literal and symbolic book. To take it all literally is preposterous. To think that we'll literally be sent to a Fire when we die is absurd. If you want to know what Muslims believe, what we really believe, you must study the Islamic community in America. The Middle Eastern Muslims have fallen into error, though the guidance is right within their reach. Imam Warith Deen Muhammed brought clarity to that which was muddled, and because of his leadership the Islamic community is still prospering 32 years after he took over. I assure you, he would not be such a well respect man (in Muslim, Christian, and Jewish circles) if he believed in marrying 8 year olds. Which brings me to my next point...

...and then he flew his magical unicorn into the sunset with his 8 year old wife before he sexually abused her and scarred her for life. The end. \ o /

Oh wait, that was the prophet. Still, happy ending.

Where on Earth did you get such a preposterous notion? 8 year old...are you serious? I would have thought you can recognize an obvious lie when it smacks you right in the face. Anyway...we'll have to discuss this on a different forum, as our conversation has strayed very far from witches...