Scotland to ban Smoking

[Fluffybunny]

Do you think a person should have the right to walk into a bar, start picking their nose, and then insist that everyone around them eats it with them? Because that's exactly what smoking in public is like.

Actually Sera, come to think of it, boogers don't cause cancer and heart disease...

[Seraphina]

Yes Mr Fluffly, I know...but most smokers seem to be in denial about that Amazing how they can pick up a little box that says "warning, smoking kills", and still insist it's okay to quite happily take out the contents, set it on fire, and inhale it into their lungs

And, since it's the subject of this thread, should point out they're forcing it into the lungs of everyone nearby too...

Edited September 3, 2004 by Seraphina

[Velikovsky]

you're free to smoke if you want...we have no right to tell you how you kill yourself, and you're free to inhale as much poison as you like. However, you have no right whatsoever to make that same choice for the people around you.

Had to smoke a cigarette just to get the strength to start this argument up again.

Aren't the people making a choice to be around me also making the same choice to be around my smoke? I know often at school I'll be with a group of smokers and then non-smokers of their own free will choose to come up and be around the smoke. So aren't they making the same choice?

For my family I have my entire little area set up in the garage, when I want to smoke I go outside. I completely agree that kids don't deserve to be around smoke. In California you can't smoke in any stores(which I wouldn't do), you can't smoke in restaurants(which I wouldn't do) and in bars the smokers have been segregated, despite the fact that 90% of the people there choose to hang out in the smoking area.

However doesn't every store have the right to refuse service? Couldn't the owner make the choice to ban smokers in their strores? If the owner chooses to allow smoking doesn't that mean your complaint is with the owner?

[Seraphina]

Had to smoke a cigarette just to get the strength to start this argument up again.

Hey Tal, when you read this....if I ever get this addicted to anything, shoot me

Aren't the people making a choice to be around me also making the same choice to be around my smoke?

So....you're saying it's their fault if they end up with lung cancer of asthma from passive smoking? Okay, I getcha...

If the owner chooses to allow smoking doesn't that mean your complaint is with the owner?

Actually, I do have a bit of complaint with places that allow smoking...one of my favourite chinese places doesn't have a non-smoking section, so if the person in the next table decides to light up, there's not a while lot you can do about it except move across the room, without any guarentee the person next to you there won't light up too.

And, as I've stated in other threads like this, I don't believe it should be me, the non-smoker, who should be the one to move out of the way, or make room for the other person with the disgusting, poisonous addiction. It's exactly that injustice that I believe this law will correct.

My objection to smoking in public isn't just how digusting it is, or how uncomfortable it makes non smokers...it's how harmful it is to other people, and the fact that smokers are willing to sit there and do something that's killing other human beings around them.

[Velikovsky]

So....you're saying it's their fault if they end up with lung cancer of asthma from passive smoking?  Okay, I getcha...

What I'm saying is if someone comes over to be by me while I'm smoking, I didn't force them to. They had a choice to be there or not. They made an active decision to breath the smoke. Nobody forced them to.

As for the Chinese place start a petition, if you get enough signatures I'm sure they'll do something about it.

Being in California this kind of stuff is pretty much a non-issue with me since the laws have been around for years. Personally I hate to be around smoke when I'm eating.

I know when I was in Kentucky they didn't have a lot of those laws and I didn't like it.

with the disgusting, poisonous addiction

hey I'm just self-medicating don't pick on me

Now let me go light up

[Seraphina]

What I'm saying is if someone comes over to be by me while I'm smoking, I didn't force them to.

Well, true you didn't force them to come over, but you did force them to inhale your smoke....and this has rather a few knock on effects.

- You're exposing them to the possibility to lung cancer

- You're exposing them to the possibility of asthma

- You're making them risk any number of illnessess caused by second hand smoking, that, quite frankly, a quick google search can list better than I can.

- You're gonna make them smell like an ash tray

And that's nothing compaired to what you're doing to yourself

In a social setting, I must admit there's nothing more offputting to me than smoking...and that's something that a lot of people are starting to become more aware of nowadays. If it's not the bad breath, yellow teeth and fingers, or the hacking, gunk filled cough, then it's the fact that I don't really want to hang around with someone who is willing to kill me.

I mean, to be honest, I think you've have to be mad to start smoking...and I think a lot of the people I know who do smoke certainly are mad

I have a friend who, along with her sister, have asthma because their father smokes like a chimney....they both have a variety of other health problems because their mother (who recently died of cancer) smoked while she was pregnant...their father, despite all this, still smokes, and doesn't make any effort to cut down when they're around.

He now has a girlfriend, who also smokes. Good times for the lungs of my non smoking friend, and her equally non smoking sister

[Velikovsky]

I actually limit my smoking to avoid the bad effects. I don't have yellow fingers, my teeth are white and I don't hack. I chew plenty of gum to get rid of the bad breath and I actually smoke small cigars so most people actually like the smell.

Oddly enough the way I started was I just wanted to know how to smoke without actually picking up the habit. Then it turned out that I actually enjoy smoking. Which is the main reason I'll probably never quit. I hear a lot of people say I hate smoking I wish I could quit, but I've never hit that point. Everything else in my life I'm a health nut about. I won't even eat meat over moral reasons.

For social settings, and i don't know why this is, I find smoking unacceptable except in bars and clubs. Even before I started smoking I didn't find it offensive in that one area.

When I was a kid my Dad smoked constantly, two packs a day. At first I never noticed anything, then I get a cold that just won't go away. Two weeks of coughing, a sore throat, runny nose. Then I go to my friends for the weekend, by the second day I was perfectly fine.

One last thing isn't the other person choosing to expose themselves to the health risks? If I'm a non-smoker and I go over to my friends house who is a smoker I would be deciding to expose myself to the risks.

Extra. Everyone, go read my column then go comment at my columnist thread. California Dreams. You can't miss it

[Seraphina]

If I'm a non-smoker and I go over to my friends house who is a smoker I would be deciding to expose myself to the risks.

True, but there's a vast difference between consciously going over to a friend's house, who you know smokes, and going out to a bar or a club for a night out, and having it ruined by someone smoking nearby.

[wunarmdscissor]

well a cople of my friends smoke and yes i choose to be around them because they are my friends.

However they will never smoke around us even in their own homes they'll go outside.

Because they aint daft and they are proper mates, they know the damage they are causing to us if they smoke around us.

Thats the difference if your so selfish that after all the facts u still smoke in front of you family and freinds then you aint worth much are you?

[Seraphina]

Thats the difference if your so selfish that after all the facts u still smoke in front of you family and freinds then you aint worth much are you?

That's actually exactly how I feel about my friend's father....I think anyone, let alone a parent, who would expose someone close to them to second hand smoking, knowing the risks, doesn't deserve much except contempt.

[Phenomenon]

Joc, this quotation is a prime example of why I hate smokers so much...the sheer overwhelming bloody mindedness of some of them.

Yet you support a sport that is well known for substance abuse?

Confusing.

[Seraphina]

.....Mr Phenominon, while you're well know for saying stupid things, and I'm going to take a moment to try and be patient with you, I'm afraid I only really have one reply to this...

"What in the name of holy hell are you talking about? "

Actually, forget it, I'm not even going to indulge you. Just next time think before you decide to start typing, because it really would help. If you honestly think compairing smoking in public, and poisoning other people around you to the possibility that some wrestlers may or may not take steriods is a good arguement against me, then I honestly think you're not even worth the effort of responding to.

Straw arguements are one thing, but actually deciding you might get a few extra points for bringing someone's friggin' hobby, which has nothing to do with this whatsoever, into this is pretty pathetic.

Edited September 3, 2004 by Seraphina

[Phenomenon]

It's phenomenon. Perhaps I should ask the webmaster to install a spell checker for you.

I am not known for posting stupid things, just because my points or opinions differ from yours doesn't make them stupid.

A lot of the points you have made seem to point towards the irresponsible manner smokers show when smoking. Not just referring to the damage they do to themselves but also to others. I believe you are a big supporter of "pro" wrestling. Am I to assume these men have suddenly stopped stoaking their bodies with illegal substances? To me your points become double standard.

This may have no connection with smoking, but points you raise as to attitude are relevant.

Edited September 3, 2004 by phenomenon

[Seraphina]

This may have no connection with smoking, but points you raise as to attitude are relevant.

No, no they're not

As I stated already, I made it clear that I don't believe I have any right to tell a person "you can't smoke". However, I believe we have a right to go out in public and not have to inhale it. My objection is to the manner in which smokers are willing to force their filthy habit on other people, which is exactly why I don't think they should be allowed to smoke in public, or around other people.

While I could name a small minority of proffessional wrestlers who I believe take steriods, it has absolutly nothing to do with this. Taking steriods does not give their family and friends lung cancer....it does not put people who have a drink with them at a bar in an early grave....compaired the two is nothing short of ridiculous, and to be quite frank I don't think you're even trying to argue the issue, you're just trying to take some kind of childish dig at me over being a wrestling fan

[Phenomenon]

This has nothing too do with having a dig at someone's interests. You are free to follow what you like. There are, however, comments in your previous posts that refer to smokers in a way other than simply they polute the air.

As yet I have not tried to levitate substance abuse to the same heights as smoking. They are completely different. But you yourself have made erroneous remarks about smokers and their attitude. These remarks were not simply aimed at their effects on others, they were also personal.

That's my point.

[Seraphina]

You mean the part where I thought bad breath, yellow fingers and teeth, and disgusting, gunk filled coughs were offputting in a social environment?

Yeah....dude...I don't think there's much hypocracy in that....it IS disgusting

[Phenomenon]

Well a quick check and as yet I have none of the above.

Almost as disturbing as a wrestler with a back full of boils, don't ya think?

[Seraphina]

I got to be honest with you Mr P, I've never seen one matching that description

If this is going to be your line of arguement to support why smokers should be allowed to poison whoever you want, wherever they want, I think I should warn you it's a very poor attempt at it

[Phenomenon]

This has got nothing to do with allowing smokers to poison others. I am myself a smoker and take great care not to smoke in the locality of others. I accept that smoking beside non-smokers is unnaceptable and have said nothing to the contrary. I smoke outside and never in front of my children. I do NOT have yellow teatch or fingers and probably get fewer coughs and cold than most. None of my posts have supported your remark.

My point is you take a serious disgust to smokers, this is easy to assume from what you have said so far. Yet you are willing to support an entertainment show that is rife in substance abuse. That's a double standard young lady, plain and simple.

[bathory]

So....you're saying it's their fault if they end up with lung cancer of asthma from passive smoking?

I thought there wasn't any actual evidence of this? at least according to the WHO when i last checked

[Seraphina]

My point is you take a serious disgust to smokers, this is easy to assume from what you have said so far. Yet you are willing to support an entertainment show that is rife in substance abuse. That's a double standard young lady, plain and simple.

Okay, I'm going to try and explain this slowly to you....

Smoking in public: Harmful to other people

Taking steriods: Harmful to yourself

In fact, I'll even go so far as to quote myself in the following...

My objection to smoking in public isn't just how digusting it is, or how uncomfortable it makes non smokers...it's how harmful it is to other people, and the fact that smokers are willing to sit there and do something that's killing other human beings around them.

There's no double standards..."young man"...and there is no line of comparrison between the two. You're clutching at straws, on a matter you know is likely to get under my skin, and not doing a very good job of it either. Either get back on topic (i.e. the subject of passive smoking, and this law that prevents it) or don't post, because what you're currently throwing my way doesn't have a thing to do with this thread.

I thought there wasn't any actual evidence of this? at least according to the WHO when i last checked

As I stated earlier, I have two friends who have developed asthma from passive smoking who would disagree with that.

Edited September 3, 2004 by Seraphina

[Stamford]

There hasn't been any definitive proof, although I think prolonged exposure can't be good for you.

[Phenomenon]

You still haven't grasped my point have you?

I have not stated that smoking and drugs have the same effect on others. you have posted in this thread and made clear with arrogant comments and stereotypical views your opinion on smokers. forget the effects it has on others, no one is arguing this point. You support a showcase that is rife in abuse, yet you have the brass neck to comment on a smokers appearance.

[bathory]

As I stated earlier, I have two friends who have developed asthma from passive smoking who would disagree with that.

wow it must be true:)

cmon sera, you know how evidence works

[Seraphina]

You support a showcase that is rife in abuse, yet you have the brass neck to comment on a smokers appearance.

Yes, yes I do, because I find smoking a disgusting and poisonious habit.

I'm not even going to try and argue this point with you anymore to be honest....because, quite frankly, you're so utterly ignorant about the wrestling industry there's not much point in doing so. Last time I checked, there wasn't any proof whatsoever that steriod abuse was rife in any given locker room, or even the suggestion of it.

If anyone's making the mistake of falling back on "arrogant comments and stereotypical views", then it's you, not me.

I'll say again Mr P, return to topic, because that's exactly what I intend to do. All your sad attempt at an arguement is doing is using up bandwidth that might have been used to say something half way useful.

wow it must be true:)

cmon sera, you know how evidence works

My point was Bathory, that whether there's definate evidence or not, it's been known to happen...denying the health risks of smoking, passive or otherwise, is ridiculous. Far too many examples of it have cropped up.

Edited September 3, 2004 by Seraphina