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darkbreed

911: Professional experts says it was staged

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Scott G

& everyone completely ignores the quotes from even family members of 9/11 victims who have a problem with the investigation.

Who really has their head in the sand?

I think you meant "official story believers" there, laugh :-).

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booNyzarC

& everyone completely ignores the quotes from even family members of 9/11 victims who have a problem with the investigation.

Who really has their head in the sand?

Who exactly do you think is ignoring quotes from family members? Me?

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skyeagle409

& everyone completely ignores the quotes from even family members of 9/11 victims who have a problem with the investigation.

Who really has their head in the sand?

Apparently, a judge has ruled against Al-Qaeda and has ordered it to pay $ 9 billion in damages. After all of these years, there are those who are not buying into the 9/11 conspiracist claims that the U.S. government was responsible for the 9/11 attacks because there is no evidence, and never was.

The evidence points to foreign terrorist, which is why Al-Qaeda has been ordered to pay lots of money.

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Wandering

Who exactly do you think is ignoring quotes from family members? Me?

After Q's post which bought up some interesting information from family members themselves showing themselves to be against the investigation, who replied to the quotes??

You even put the quotes in the spoiler box, why hide them?? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Rather than go on with more quotes, why not answer the question I actually posed? Would those other things I mentioned offend you?

Then you say that. ^ . I guess what the family members think of their own families lives means nothing to you.

Skyeagle on the other hand, completely ignores the quotes in favour of finding some far out theory and quoting it here, then calling it despicable. Which had...nothing to do with what was posted. Hey I'm getting used to that though.

Edited by Wandering

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booNyzarC

After Q's post which bought up some interesting information from family members themselves showing themselves to be against the investigation, who replied to the quotes??

You even put the quotes in the spoiler box, why hide them?? That doesn't make any sense to me.

The quotes weren't relevant to what I was asking Q24, it was a long post, and I put them in spoilers to cut down the size of the quoted post. I had no desire or reason to "hide" them.

What is your expectation of response to the quotes?

Speaking of which, did you respond to the quotes beyond trying to vilify people who may not agree with the truth movement?

Then you say that. ^ . I guess what the family members think of their own families lives means nothing to you.

As I said before, the quotes weren't relevant to my question to Q24. He still hasn't answered my question by the way. Even though he seems to think that he has, he hasn't.

I find your assumption that the victims of 911 mean nothing to me offensive, and it comes across to me as a borderline flame attempt.

Not that I have any requirement to validate myself to you, but my heart goes out to the victims of 911; both the people lost and the surviving family members.

Skyeagle on the other hand, completely ignores the quotes in favour of finding some far out theory and quoting it here, then calling it despicable. Which had...nothing to do with what was posted. Hey I'm getting used to that though.

Maybe you should worry more about yourself than everyone else. All too often you seem to pop into these threads and make judgments about the character of other members.

Perhaps you should focus more on the facts being discussed.

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The Silver Thong

The evidence points to Al-Qaeda has been ordered to pay terrorist, which is why Al-Qaeda has been ordered to pay lots of money.

Do you mean Saudia Arabia and Isreal and the United States oh wait they are all allies or should we also include Pakistan that hide Bin Ladin. Foreign and demostic is the key. The evidence does not point to a rogue group of people with a vengance against the west. What would be the goal as far as having the ME invaded. They would have had nothing to gain, who did. Afganistan and Iraq, give me a break, two nations weak to the point they could not imagine a war with the US.

I do not claim anything but the US just went belly up along with the Eurpean union in this BS fight for what. It`s a lie as to how or why who cares we all know it`s based on bullcrap. Time to figure that out the truth with out some blind patriotism because some people served in the military as I find that opinion the most bias of all.

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Wandering
The quotes weren't relevant to what I was asking Q24, it was a long post, and I put them in spoilers to cut down the size of the quoted post. I had no desire or reason to "hide" them.

What is your expectation of response to the quotes?

Speaking of which, did you respond to the quotes beyond trying to vilify people who may not agree with the truth movement?

You said:

I respect your typical attention to detail Q24, even if I often don't agree with your interpretations of things. But at least admit that you'd be offended by these gross violations of respect and common decency. Anyone would; and rightly so.

By 'anyone would' I am under the impression you think that 'anyone' would be offended by the claims that the 9/11 victims didn't die due to a terrorist strike. Q24's post is an example that even the family members think there is more to the story & are not offended by a quest for further answers. As far as I was concerned, he was reacting to a presumption from a few people on this thread that family members of victims would be 'shocked and disgusted' by people asking questions. He pointed out that they themselves, are asking questions.

I have no need to debate what he said, as I agree with it. It was the lack of response from people who insinuated family members would be upset that did not respond which surprised me.

Maybe you should worry more about yourself than everyone else. All too often you seem to pop into these threads and make judgments about the character of other members.

I have come to this board naive in the ways of Internet Debate Forums, I (for some reason) expected people to be sharing ideas, discussing, debunking, creating and researching theories about various subjects. While there are definitely people on here like that, the majority of people on here seem to take the 'eyes wide shut' approach and seem to ignore anything that doesn't fit in with what they believe. On both sides to be sure, but personally, I find it I guess....annoying? I feel there's no point in putting as much time and effort into discussing this with people who have already got their minds made up and have no desire for change.

I for example, do believe that 9/11 wasn't a terrorist act as we know it. However, I would gladly take some final irrefutable proof that it was and be happy, as I would rather there was a few crazies in a cave, than a global octopus of terror.

Someone else for example, who loves to repeat menial things, who ignores key points of information 'that doesnt matter ignore it' in favour of repeating repeating repeating the same information... What a waste of everyones time talking to them.

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booNyzarC

You said:

I respect your typical attention to detail Q24, even if I often don't agree with your interpretations of things. But at least admit that you'd be offended by these gross violations of respect and common decency. Anyone would; and rightly so.

By 'anyone would' I am under the impression you think that 'anyone' would be offended by the claims that the 9/11 victims didn't die due to a terrorist strike. Q24's post is an example that even the family members think there is more to the story & are not offended by a quest for further answers. As far as I was concerned, he was reacting to a presumption from a few people on this thread that family members of victims would be 'shocked and disgusted' by people asking questions. He pointed out that they themselves, are asking questions.

Instead of assuming, why not go and read the questions I was asking Q24 to answer in my post #494?

Here, I'll break them down into a list format for easier consumption:

  1. So you wouldn't be offended by people suggesting that your loved ones weren't killed in the planes?
  2. You wouldn't be offended by people suggesting that the phone calls you received from that loved one was faked?
  3. You wouldn't be offended by people suggesting that your loved one may have been whisked off to another country with millions of dollars in payola to keep their mouth shut (and effectively leaving you in the lurch with a false assumption that they were dead)?
  4. You wouldn't be offended by being accused of being part of the conspiracy for describing the last conversations you had with your loved one?
  5. You wouldn't be offended by people twisting, distorting, or outright fabricating "facts" in order to pursue conspiracy theories at any cost?
  6. You wouldn't be offended by someone suggesting that the heroism that your loved one displayed in order to prevent one more plane from causing even more damage to the national psyche was all a lie?

Keep in mind that this entire line of questions actually started back in my post #460 regarding Loose Change and the rebuttal to that mocumentary which was cleverly titled Screw Loose Change.

Most of the questions in that list are directly related to what Loose Change did (excluding the third one, which ironically appears to be the only one that Q24 actually answered... while you appear to only be addressing the first.).

I have no need to debate what he said, as I agree with it. It was the lack of response from people who insinuated family members would be upset that did not respond which surprised me.

I didn't address the quotes directly for the reasons I've already given. They weren't relevant to my questions to Q24. Do you not find it odd that instead of actually answering my questions he diverted to this list of quotes? He likewise avoided responding to my points about his assessment of Screw Loose Change based on watching an entire 1.87% of the film. But that, I suppose, is alright in your eyes because you agree with his point of view already?

I have come to this board naive in the ways of Internet Debate Forums, I (for some reason) expected people to be sharing ideas, discussing, debunking, creating and researching theories about various subjects. While there are definitely people on here like that, the majority of people on here seem to take the 'eyes wide shut' approach and seem to ignore anything that doesn't fit in with what they believe. On both sides to be sure, but personally, I find it I guess....annoying? I feel there's no point in putting as much time and effort into discussing this with people who have already got their minds made up and have no desire for change.

Then feel free to address the relevant points of the debate and discuss them. When you take the stance of changing the debate to one of the character of your opponent you risk the dreaded ad hominem logical fallacy. This actually detracts from the overall discussion that you have indicated you are interested in having by side-tracking the participants. Kind of like where we find ourselves now; distracted away from the actual topics.

I for example, do believe that 9/11 wasn't a terrorist act as we know it. However, I would gladly take some final irrefutable proof that it was and be happy, as I would rather there was a few crazies in a cave, than a global octopus of terror.

Why exactly do you believe that it wasn't a terrorist act? Is there irrefutable proof that it wasn't a terrorist act? If there is, I certainly haven't seen it.

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Q24

By 'anyone would' I am under the impression you think that 'anyone' would be offended by the claims that the 9/11 victims didn't die due to a terrorist strike. Q24's post is an example that even the family members think there is more to the story & are not offended by a quest for further answers. As far as I was concerned, he was reacting to a presumption from a few people on this thread that family members of victims would be 'shocked and disgusted' by people asking questions. He pointed out that they themselves, are asking questions.

Exactly.

There are some who make attempt to claim a moral high-ground against those who question the official version of 9/11, by alleging such doubt and discussion is offensive to the victims’ families. I have provided actual quotes from a number of family members which prove the failure of that position. You will find that those who adhere to the official version of 9/11, more often than not, ignore those quotes and continue on their preset track.

It could be seen as quite disrespectful really - this is a part of why I previously said, “No one side is better than the other”.

As I said before, the quotes weren't relevant to my question to Q24. He still hasn't answered my question by the way.

The quotes are entirely relevant to my answer. I will spell it out because you seem to be having trouble taking an answer from what has been said: I would not personally be offended. At most, where I considered an idea ludicrous, it would receive my disdain, derision or contempt. The position I have taken (even the alternative position Loose Change has taken) is generally in line with a number of the family members own questions. What I find most offensive is that the public and those family members have to the present day been left with half-truths.

No one should be deterred from questioning 9/11, even if it may lead to incorrect theory along the way.

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booNyzarC

Exactly.

There are some who make attempt to claim a moral high-ground against those who question the official version of 9/11, by alleging such doubt and discussion is offensive to the victims’ families. I have provided actual quotes from a number of family members which prove the failure of that position. You will find that those who adhere to the official version of 9/11, more often than not, ignore those quotes and continue on their preset track.

It could be seen as quite disrespectful really - this is a part of why I previously said, “No one side is better than the other”.

I wasn't attempting to claim any moral high-ground. I asked a direct set of 6 questions. You responded to one of those questions initially.

The quotes are entirely relevant to my answer. I will spell it out because you seem to be having trouble taking an answer from what has been said: I would not personally be offended. At most, where I considered an idea ludicrous, it would receive my disdain, derision or contempt. The position I have taken (even the alternative position Loose Change has taken) is generally in line with a number of the family members own questions. What I find most offensive is that the public and those family members have to the present day been left with half-truths.

Your answer was initially in reference to one specific question. But I will accept your global answer to the rest of the questions now. Considering that you indicate your response to such things would be disdain, derision, or contempt I think it is clear that you would be offended.

No one should be deterred from questioning 9/11, even if it may lead to incorrect theory along the way.

I've never said that anyone should be deterred from asking questions. Loose Change goes far beyond asking questions. And that was my point.

Suffice it to say that we are all (I assume) concerned with the senseless murder of innocents which took place on 911, regardless of who either of us see as responsible for those deaths.

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Q24

Considering that you indicate your response to such things would be disdain, derision, or contempt I think it is clear that you would be offended.

It is not quite the same - I would not hold any anger, resentment or upset. It is more a case I would not be concerned enough to be offended. Anyhow, take from it what you will. I mean, you clearly know what I think better than I do. :)

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booNyzarC

It is not quite the same - I would not hold any anger, resentment or upset. It is more a case I would not be concerned enough to be offended. Anyhow, take from it what you will. I mean, you clearly know what I think better than I do. :)

No, I don't know what you think better than you do. Those are just signs of offense in my opinion. At any rate, I'm tired of quibbling over such stupid minutia as this.

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