Little Fish Posted February 2, 2012 #2451 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Skyeagle, we have had (and no doubt will continue to have) differences on some topics , but I have to heartily applaud your tenacity, patience, accuracy and logic here. You are fighting the good, and correct, fight. it is a logical fallacy to suggest that what one person says is what a group of people are saying, does that even need explaining? I once saw a "debunker" claim that building 6 was the top of tower 1 thus proving bazant's crush down hypothesis. so the anti-truth movement don't know the difference between building 6 and building 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted February 2, 2012 #2452 Share Posted February 2, 2012 My mistake. I worded my thought incorrectly. Babe Ruth, are you under the impression that the official explanation for the hole is that it was made by the fuselage? Yessir, I am under the impression that it was made by Flight 77, and that it is refered to as an "exit" hole, though I can see that not much exited there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted February 2, 2012 #2453 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So what we have seen presented here are the 2 extremes: an F-4 that could not penetrate an imitation containment wall for a nuclear facility, and a business jet of some sort that rolled through a very thin wall. Common sense would suggest that the big variable is the construction of the various walls. How different are the walls at the Pentagon from the wall shown in the business jet photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q24 Posted February 2, 2012 #2454 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So what we have seen presented here are the 2 extremes: an F-4 that could not penetrate an imitation containment wall for a nuclear facility, and a business jet of some sort that rolled through a very thin wall. So if we have two examples at either extreme… what’s the problem with the Pentagon impact falling in the middle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted February 2, 2012 #2455 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) So what we have seen presented here are the 2 extremes: an F-4 that could not penetrate an imitation containment wall for a nuclear facility, and a business jet of some sort that rolled through a very thin wall. Common sense would suggest that the big variable is the construction of the various walls. How different are the walls at the Pentagon from the wall shown in the business jet photo? A difference of only a few inches, and when the nose of the small business jet penetrated the building, it was slowing down, unlike the larger B-757, which was screaming at full power as it slammed into the Pentagon. Lets' compare the concrete wall that was struck by the F-4 in a test with the wall of the Pentagon that was struck by a B-757 for real, and note the differences in thickness between the two walls and remember, the F-4 is much smaller and lighter than a B-757. As you can see, the wall of the Pentagon is nowhere near the thickness of the concrete wall that was struck by the F-4. Edited February 2, 2012 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted February 2, 2012 #2456 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Skyeagle, we have had (and no doubt will continue to have) differences on some topics , but I have to heartily applaud your tenacity, patience, accuracy and logic here. You are fighting the good, and correct, fight. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oly Posted February 2, 2012 #2457 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So if we have two examples at either extreme… what’s the problem with the Pentagon impact falling in the middle? 1 plane went through, broke wall, other plane didn't, broke plane. Any one got examples of in between? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted February 2, 2012 #2458 Share Posted February 2, 2012 So if we have two examples at either extreme… what’s the problem with the Pentagon impact falling in the middle? I suspect that it does fall somewhere in the middle, Q. I think it was Sky that posted the approximate dimensions and composition of the Pentagon walls. I suppose a brilliant mathematician could construct a formula that might apply and give a good answer, but that is not in my skill set. Back to common sense, and to the supposed exit hole, it was either the second or third "ring", and thus, assuming the rings were of identical construction, and that each ring had 2 walls, we are looking at about 6 times the thickness shown in the photo, no? Thinking today, the picture of the business jet is, I think, a Challenger that went off the runway at Teterboro a few years back. So if we could get some particulars, we might be able to approximate the cumulative thickness of concrete walls that 77 is supposed to have penetrated. As for me, I still want to see where the engines and MLG entered and exited. I cannot fathom how the frangible nose section could penetrate and exit so cleanly through 2 or 3 rings, while the much stronger engines did not. And good grief, what about the wings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted February 2, 2012 #2459 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Parts of the fuselage, which is evident from the primer Note the thickness of the Pentagon wall vs this wall. It seems you are forced into the position that the debris you have circled in red is responsible for that perfect circle exit hole? If not, what did? Are you really comfortable with that position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted February 2, 2012 #2460 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I suspect that it does fall somewhere in the middle, Q. I think it was Sky that posted the approximate dimensions and composition of the Pentagon walls. I suppose a brilliant mathematician could construct a formula that might apply and give a good answer, but that is not in my skill set. Back to common sense, and to the supposed exit hole, it was either the second or third "ring", and thus, assuming the rings were of identical construction, and that each ring had 2 walls, we are looking at about 6 times the thickness shown in the photo, no? Thinking today, the picture of the business jet is, I think, a Challenger that went off the runway at Teterboro a few years back. So if we could get some particulars, we might be able to approximate the cumulative thickness of concrete walls that 77 is supposed to have penetrated. As for me, I still want to see where the engines and MLG entered and exited. I cannot fathom how the frangible nose section could penetrate and exit so cleanly through 2 or 3 rings, while the much stronger engines did not. And good grief, what about the wings? The engines were there at the Pentagon. As for what was left of the wings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted February 2, 2012 #2461 Share Posted February 2, 2012 He might not like to give direct answers to direct questions, but Sky has a fantastic collection of photos! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted February 2, 2012 #2462 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) It seems you are forced into the position that the debris you have circled in red is responsible for that perfect circle exit hole? If not, what did? The parts you see are from the fuselage of the B-757, most of which was still inside the Pentagon and what you see is the end-result from the impact. That green primer you see on the parts was used on aircraft, but the Air Force no longer uses that green primer because of health issues. There are photos you have never seen before and in one photo, I saw low-density honeycomb core that are used on wing panels. Are you really comfortable with that position? Absolutely!! Edited February 2, 2012 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted February 3, 2012 #2463 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Who gives a hoot about what primer the USAF uses? So a few pieces of aluminum made a perfectly round hole in that brick wall, making soot in the process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted February 3, 2012 #2464 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Who gives a hoot about what primer the USAF uses? Apparently, you do not know the significance of zince chromate appearing on those aircraft parts found at the Pentagon. Those parts are from a B-757. So a few pieces of aluminum made a perfectly round hole in that brick wall, making soot in the process? Of course!! The pieces you see are just part of the airframe that smashed into the wall from inside the Pentagon, most of whch are still inside. Did you really think that workers were going to take their time and meticulously cut a circle through the wall from inside the Pentagon that is filled iwth smoke from a raging fire? Edited February 3, 2012 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Ruth Posted February 3, 2012 #2465 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Sky I worked in aircraft production long enough to know that Boeing is not the only company that uses zinc chromate primer. Are you really making the claim that Boeing is the only one to use primer??? As for the exit hole, no I don't think workers meticulously cut the hole, I suspect that explosives of some sort were used, thus the sooty residue seen in your picture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted February 3, 2012 #2466 Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Sky I worked in aircraft production long enough to know that Boeing is not the only company that uses zinc chromate primer. I never said that the Boeing company was the only company that used that primer, because I said that the Air Force no longer uses that primer due to health issues. As for the exit hole, no I don't think workers meticulously cut the hole, I suspect that explosives of some sort were used, thus the sooty residue seen in your picture. You have to remember that the Pentagon was on fire at that time and the soot you see in the photo was not indicative of an explosion. Edited February 3, 2012 by skyeagle409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MID Posted October 18, 2012 #2467 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I have been actively involved in aviation over the years and have led the Tuskegee Airmen chapter at Travis AFB, which includes air force officers and enlisted personnel, air force civilians, and military retirees, and some members of my chapter are original Tuskegee Airmen, one of whom flew our first POW's out of North Vietnam on the 'Hanoi Taxi," and was a crewmember on the aircraft that flew the Apollo 14 astronauts back to Houston after their moon flight. That was Colonel James C. Warren, and we still fly together. Lt. Colonel James Warren, was the person who nominated me for president of the Lee A. Archer, Jr. chapter, Travis AFB, where afterward, its members voted me in as president, a position I held until I took on a government contract in Corpus Christi, TX. Lt. Colonel James Warren is also the honorary commander of the 477th Fighter Group that flies the F-22 Raptor, which was his unit during World War II. Lt. Colonel James Warren and F-22 pilots of the 477th Fighter Group In addition, I once gave a lecture on the hazards of mountain flying to the Experimental Aircraft Association, (EAA) in Vacaville, CA. a few years ago. Look for the Tuskegee Airmen movie; "Red Tails," which is a George Lucas film and due for release on Januarty 20, 2012. Sky: Please give a salute to the Colonel when you see him. It must be something to fly with a genuine American hero and aviation pioneer! Did you get to see the movie? It was ffantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyeagle409 Posted October 18, 2012 #2468 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Sky: Please give a salute to the Colonel when you see him. It must be something to fly with a genuine American hero and aviation pioneer! Did you get to see the movie? It was ffantastic! I will see Colonel Warren tomorrow and pass on your salute to him. I saw the movie with Colonel Warren and afterward, he spoke to the audience in Fairfield, CA. If you look at the credits at the end of the movie, you will see Colonel Warren's name. He assisted George Lucas the making of the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted October 20, 2012 #2469 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Good to See the Col.doing well Sky ! We just got back from D.C on a trip of a week and saw Lots of Real Proof of 9/11 in the museums Like the United Airlines pcs,and AA parts. quite extreem to see what actual proof there is ! WHen you go there dont Miss the Newseum Really a great Museum a must see ! Cheer`sjustDONTEATUS on your Six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MID Posted October 20, 2012 #2470 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I will see Colonel Warren tomorrow and pass on your salute to him. I saw the movie with Colonel Warren and afterward, he spoke to the audience in Fairfield, CA. If you look at the credits at the end of the movie, you will see Colonel Warren's name. He assisted George Lucas the making of the movie. Roger that...and thank you, Sir! :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regeneratia Posted October 20, 2012 #2471 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) http://www.redicecre.../RIR-121014.php Richard Grove - Hour 1 - 9/11 Insider Trading Whistleblower & Voluntary Servitude October 14, 2012 =================== Mark H. Gaffney - Hour 1 - Black 9/11: Money, Motive and Technology http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2012/10/RIR-121014.php Edited October 20, 2012 by regeneratia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regeneratia Posted October 20, 2012 #2472 Share Posted October 20, 2012 http://articles.latimes.com/2000/sep/22/news/mn-25118 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted October 20, 2012 #2473 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Man ! can you say Round peg in a Square hole ? THis thread gets stranger by the tick ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MID Posted October 20, 2012 #2474 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Man ! can you say Round peg in a Square hole ? THis thread gets stranger by the tick ! Or...a triangular peg in a round hole, D! Yep, I see what you're sayin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DONTEATUS Posted October 27, 2012 #2475 Share Posted October 27, 2012 You know what they say about all this Peg problem`s ? GET a Bigger HAMMER ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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