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Schoolboy with three-inch ponytail sparks row


Still Waters
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This is in the UK NOT the US so what the US sttate determies as normal has no baring at all on this.

Uk then.

Different religions, sexuality, ethnicity is tolerated in school policies.

However the ponytail is rebellion which isnt the same as the above.

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Uk then.

Different religions, sexuality, ethnicity is tolerated in school policies.

However the ponytail is rebellion which isnt the same as the above.

Actually no, it's not rebellion. It's only rebellion to you because you're deluding yourself into beliving it is.

And as an aside, at least one religion allows ponytails which further makes your generalisation pointless.

Edited by shadowhive
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However the ponytail is rebellion which isnt the same as the above.

The ponytail isn't rebellion. The boy was BORN with the ponytail. He's had it since he's had hair. Whenever he cuts it off it will just keep on growing.

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Whenever he cuts it off it will just keep on growing.

Pretty much the same as anyone else's hair you mean?

BTW, the article says the boy has had the hair style since he was a toddler, he wasn't born that way. You make it sound as if the boy has some unnatural growth that people are demanding removal of. It's not, it's just a hair style.

Edited by Slave2Fate
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Pretty much the same as anyone else's hair you mean?

But not everybody has ponytails, do they?

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But not everybody has ponytails, do they?

Obviously not, but I don't see what that has to do with a boy getting a hair cut to satisfy a dress code. I don't see a problem with the boy cutting his hair. The reticence of the father to comply and the subsequent disruption with the boys education over something so trivial baffles me, to be honest. Is a tiny lock of hair so important? :hmm:

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Obviously not, but I don't see what that has to do with a boy getting a hair cut to satisfy a dress code. I don't see a problem with the boy cutting his hair. The reticence of the father to comply and the subsequent disruption with the boys education over something so trivial baffles me, to be honest. Is a tiny lock of hair so important? :hmm:

If it isn't important then why do the school not let him keep it?

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If it isn't important then why do the school not let him keep it?

Uniformity is generally considered a better environment for learning. Less distraction that way. And if you let one student do it, then you have to let all students do it, and it wouldn't stop with just a simple rat tail I'm sure. The way I see it, it's addressing the issue before it becomes an issue.

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Uniformity is generally considered a better environment for learning. Less distraction that way. And if you let one student do it, then you have to let all students do it, and it wouldn't stop with just a simple rat tail I'm sure. The way I see it, it's addressing the issue before it becomes an issue.

I doubt a three-inch ponytail is going to be too distracting in class.

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I doubt a three-inch ponytail is going to be too distracting in class.

Not by itself, no. Realistically though, it wouldn't stop there. The rest of the students would want hair styles of their own and eventually the line gets crossed, then the line gets blurred, then you have things like 12 inch purple mohawks in the front row. I admit that's an exaggeration but instead of dealing with all of that it is much simpler to not let that particular can of worms get opened in my opinion.

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I doubt a three-inch ponytail is going to be too distracting in class.

That is not the point of a dress code. As if one kid can break it then all kids can break it meaning there would be no dress code. Why is this so hard for some people to get. A dress code is a dress code pretty freakin simple if you ask me. Plus, nobody is born with a pony tail, it`s a fashion statement nothing more. Hence the very reason for a bloody dress code.

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That is not the point of a dress code. As if one kid can break it then all kids can break it meaning there would be no dress code. Why is this so hard for some people to get. A dress code is a dress code pretty freakin simple if you ask me. Plus, nobody is born with a pony tail, it`s a fashion statement nothing more. Hence the very reason for a bloody dress code.

Is a slightly different hairstyle really that bad though? Seriously?

Some of the people are acting as if he shaved the f-word into his hair.

All the dress code is teaching (in regards to hair) is that they should all conform and individuality is bad... unless you're a girl then you can do whatever the hell you want.

Edited by shadowhive
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Is a slightly different hairstyle really that bad though? Seriously?

Some of the people are acting as if he shaved the f-word into his hair.

All the dress code is teaching (in regards to hair) is that they should all conform and individuality is bad... unless you're a girl then you can do whatever the hell you want.

I went to public school and was a bit of a rebel myself and I hated comformity not that there was any dress code at that time. However rules are rules and if a child let alone a father can not follow rules set by a standard most seem to accept at this school then this is just a stunt and a want for 15 min of fame. The rat tail is not a right and is actually embarassing to what human rights actualy mean.

The kid can cut it off and after he moves on to another school can grow it back. Is his rat tag a religious symbol, is it a hand me down family tradition, nope the dad has hair envy. This entire thing is pathetic and the dad should be sent back to school to learn more about what human rights truely mean.

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Great, but "sexist", isn't defined by your view. It has an actual definition.

So you're saying it isn't sexist at all to tell someone of one gender they can have their hair one way, but someone else who wears their hair in exactly the same way but just happens to be opposite gender isn't allowed?

How is that not sexist? Why is a woman allowed a 3 inch pony tail, but a man with the same pony tail is victimised? Explain why thats 1. not sexist and 2. remotely fair.

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I went to public school and was a bit of a rebel myself and I hated comformity not that there was any dress code at that time. However rules are rules and if a child let alone a father can not follow rules set by a standard most seem to accept at this school then this is just a stunt and a want for 15 min of fame. The rat tail is not a right and is actually embarassing to what human rights actualy mean.

The kid can cut it off and after he moves on to another school can grow it back. Is his rat tag a religious symbol, is it a hand me down family tradition, nope the dad has hair envy. This entire thing is pathetic and the dad should be sent back to school to learn more about what human rights truely mean.

How can we be sure the kid even KNEW the rules? (Same with the parent.) It seems they were unaware and no one bothered saying it till later. It wasprobably hidden deep in the dress code and easily missed, if it was even there in writing at all.

Why is it religious people can use their religion as an excuse to circumvent the rules? If he had a religious reason to have one, he could get around it. How is that fair?

Stop calling it a 'rat tail'. It actually comes off as a petty insult.

It is pathetic, but it's not the kid that's being pathetic.

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So you're saying it isn't sexist at all to tell someone of one gender they can have their hair one way, but someone else who wears their hair in exactly the same way but just happens to be opposite gender isn't allowed?

Exactly!

How is that not sexist?

Because sexism doesn't apply to both genders at one time. Sexism isn't about treating both genders as if they were indistinguishable. In fact, sexism, by definition, relies on the two genders being separate in culture, treatment, and society. The very definition of sexism relies on there being a distinction.

Why is a woman allowed a 3 inch pony tail, but a man with the same pony tail is victimised?

Because long hair has been cultural accepted for centuries (if not millenia) as an feminine hairstyle, whereas it has only ever been considered faddish among boys, in this particular society.

But more relevant to the charge of sexism, longer hair is not considered inferior, less competent, discriminatory, or abusive. It is most certainly not considered less valuable, as indeed you will find many, many women, who consider their long hair to be very precious to them indeed. People are acting as if sexism means nothing more than treating men and women differently. Nonsense. That is like saying that slavery is nothing more than treating people of different races differently.

Explain why thats 1. not sexist and 2. remotely fair.

Sexism, like slavery, isn't considered a bad thing because it treats people differently. It is considered bad because it treats people like one is inferior and the other is superior.

What is offensive is equating this nonsense to the fight for human rights. What is offensive is pretending that boys and girls should follow the same rules. What is offensive is pretending that sexism is so simplistic that it can be applied to hairstyles.

Why is it impossible to take seriously? Because defenders reached too far. It is one thing to insist the subject is more important than it is. It is quite another to demand it be treated at the level that some of the most revolutionary human rights movements in the history of our species have been dealt with.

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How can we be sure the kid even KNEW the rules? (Same with the parent.) It seems they were unaware and no one bothered saying it till later. It wasprobably hidden deep in the dress code and easily missed, if it was even there in writing at all.

If they were unaware then that would be their own fault. If they can't take the time to read the fine print on a contract, that they are signing with an institution they are leaving their child with...then they have no right to complain.

It doesn't matter what the child knew...he's a child...and doesn't make the rules.

Edited by Michelle
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Because long hair has been cultural accepted for centuries (if not millenia) as an feminine hairstyle, whereas it has only ever been considered faddish among boys, in this particular society.

Rubbish.

Men had long hair many many years ago, long before you or I were even thought about. Why, I've even heard tell that Jesus had long hair! But no, no, it must be a new age 'faddish' thing :rolleyes:

You cant claim that because something is relatively new to 'this society' that its wrong. There are a lot of things our modern society is doing which wouldn't have happened years ago (I won't even go into the mixing of certain races and the roles of some of those races within our society) but that doesn't make them wrong.

But whatever. My OH has long hair, and is constantly victimised for it at work (even though the dress code makes no mention of men not being allowed long hair), when women who have the same length hair and do the same job are left well alone, even though it has NO impact on his ability to do his job whatsoever. Its ridiculous. You complain that people waste too much time on such a silly issue, whereas I would say people who are whining about how long a man's hair is are the one's wasting time on a silly issue. It really doesn't matter how long someone's hair is. It doesn't change their personality, their ability to work or anything about them. Complete waste of everyone's time to make something so unimportant into an issue in the first place.

Does a pony tail make a man less able to work? Less of a decent person? I repeat: what a waste of energy to be bothered about how someone else chooses to wear their hair!

Was a period where I had very short cropped hair, unconventional for a girl, I guess I was just being 'faddish' too and should have been victimised accordingly? But no. Us girls can have our hair as we like and wear what we like, god forbid you're a man who tries to have the same rights....

Edited by Rat Girl
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Rubbish.

Men had long hair many many years ago, long before you or I were even thought about. Why, I've even heard tell that Jesus had long hair! But no, no, it must be a new age 'faddish' thing :rolleyes:

No, I didn't. In fact, I was very, very, specific about my claim. I was very specific, because I knew what your response would be.

You cant claim that because something is relatively new to 'this society' that its wrong. There are a lot of things our modern society is doing which wouldn't have happened years ago (I won't even go into the mixing of certain races and the roles of some of those races within our society) but that doesn't make them wrong.

I don't need to claim that it is wrong. Nor have I ever. This nonsense is too silly to be about "right" or "wrong". It is simply about expectations, and people thinking they are above them.

But whatever. My OH has long hair, and is constantly victimised for it at work (even though the dress code makes no mention of men not being allowed long hair), when women who have the same length hair and do the same job are left well alone, even though it has NO impact on his ability to do his job whatsoever. Its ridiculous.

I agree. And I am very impressed that your OH (I am afraid I do not know what that means) can be constantly victimized at work and not have it impact his job (indeed, most jobs have Human Resources personnel specifically to address those issues). But, he is a grown man (woman...again, sorry, what is an OH?), and he is not a school child. Nor is he attending a place he was given the privilege to attend (heck, he is even getting paid to go to his work). I won't say he is in the wrong. I will say the example is so different as to serve no purpose as an example. I will not compare a schoolboy just beginning his childhood classes with a grown man going to work.

You complain that people waste too much time on such a silly issue, whereas I would say people who are whining about how long a man's hair is are the one's wasting time on a silly issue. It really doesn't matter how long someone's hair is. It doesn't change their personality, their ability to work or anything about them. Complete waste of everyone's time to make something so unimportant into an issue in the first place.

Well, that is the perception problem I was referring to earlier. You call this an issue, but it simply isn't. Either the child will comply, or he will not attend the school. It really is that simple. The only person who believes this is an issue is the father.

Does a pony tail make a man less able to work? Less of a decent person? I repeat: what a waste of energy to be bothered about how someone else chooses to wear their hair!

Yeah...look, you obviously have strong emotions about what is happening to your OH, so I'm not going to get involved in that.

Was a period where I had very short cropped hair, unconventional for a girl, I guess I was just being 'faddish' too and should have been victimised accordingly?

Since when do girls get victimized for having short hair? For that matter, why are we referring to the boy being victimized? A person who breaks rules isn't the victim. They are the culprit.

But no. Us girls can have our hair as we like and wear what we like, god forbid you're a man who tries to have the same rights....

You are very welcome to have the same rights (which everyone else refers to as simply "grooming rules", but hey, human rights, victimization, etc, etc). You are welcome to petition the school with your grievances, to get them to review the codes, to do a variety of things to change the codes. Indeed, at my old school we petitioned to remove the dress code entirely from the Friday evening dinner, and after two semesters, succeeded.

Alternatively, you can just dig in your heels, refuse to follow the rules, and wait for the world to modify itself to you. Both actions have consequences, but the consequences of one makes you a better person, while the consequences of the other...doesn't.

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How can we be sure the kid even KNEW the rules? (Same with the parent.) It seems they were unaware and no one bothered saying it till later. It wasprobably hidden deep in the dress code and easily missed, if it was even there in writing at all.

Why is it religious people can use their religion as an excuse to circumvent the rules? If he had a religious reason to have one, he could get around it. How is that fair?

Stop calling it a 'rat tail'. It actually comes off as a petty insult.

It is pathetic, but it's not the kid that's being pathetic.

I doubt that the dress code was deeply hidden as why would it be. As far as religious reasons go I doubt a person that did not conform to the dress code would not go to that school. Pretty simple yes.

It is a rat tail or as some call it a fag tag. Yes both are dirogitory however it is not a ponytail in the true sence of what a ponytail is.

Pathetic is that some think rules don't apply to them so they make a drama show out of it. That's pathetic.

Plus, who the hell ever said life was fair. Cry me a river.

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Rubbish.

Men had long hair many many years ago, long before you or I were even thought about.

You only have to go back to the Seventies to see a time when it was common for men to have long hair.

Here are Black Sabbath in 1970:

Black_title.jpg

Edited by Blackwhite
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