NYC protests turns violent on women

[_Only]

Again, there's no evidence that the crowd posed a threat at any point, although there are plenty of eyewitness accounts from both protesters and locals which claim heavy-handed tactics were being readily employed by the police.

The problem with that is those weren't impartial eyewitnesses. They want controversy. As I'm sure did the terrified screaming girls blinded in agony. That is the point of these protests. They're trying to get any extreme reaction they can work up. Shown in how excited the guy on video got when someone who rushed the police was taken down: "POLICE BRUTALITY! POLICE BRUTALITY!"

I'm really sounding like an advocate of the police now, but I'm honestly just not trying to buy into popular hype, and trying to nudge people into looking at things from every angle.

And the damsels in distress angle is well taken care of by others. But that doesn't make the most sense to me.

edit - Also want to add that riot tear gas sent into the air in a crowd is far less severe than getting individual pepper spray to the eyes. If an officer felt that someone needed that personal attention, they might have done it. But the purpose of airborne tear gas is to diffuse a crowd. People see that and back off, as the chemicals dissipate quickly. I'd be interested to see the video go on for 5 minutes longer, and see the resulting event. My guess is a few girls laid screaming in pain for far longer than they should have, as airborne spray out on the streets is far from effective in incapacitating anyone. Women, or not (have a bit of a problem with the thread title and its implications).

Edited September 25, 2011 by Jerry Only

[Varelse]

Minor point but cs gas is not the same as pepper spray.

Id take cs over pepper any day. Cs effects are gone quickly once you're out of its area, pepper spray sticks and stings until washed off.

[minera]

What were they protesting?

If it was police brutality, then I'm in agreement.

They were protesting the economy brought to its knees by wall street bankers, people loosing their money, jobs and homes and the government bails out the bankers. Then the bankers turned around and gave themselves a nice fat raise. There is no democracy here only totaliarism. Rob the poor and pay the rich.

[acidhead]

wouldn't the anger be better directed at the fed. government for allowing the cockroaches on wallstreet to engage in predative behavior? I think so.

[Travelling Man]

It means they're sergeants, rather than regular cops. Which is even more worrying, as it can't be so readily dismissed as rookie officers panicking and acting on impulse.

I'm sorry to come off like a turd, but do you have a cite on the uniform thing? I just want to be sure.

Also, what gives you the knowledge that there was a "panic" and someone "acted on impulse"?? The sound quality on the tape is crappy, so we don't hear any verbal instructions given by the cops. They COULD have been telling them to back up or they'd get sprayed... but we can't tell from the tape. Let's not jump to conclusions.

They also have a responsibility to protect the public. Which doesn't usually involve leaving lone females temporarily blinded and screaming in agony on the ground just for pushing against the barriers a bit. Again, there's no evidence that the crowd posed a threat at any point, although there are plenty of eyewitness accounts from both protesters and locals which claim heavy-handed tactics were being readily employed by the police.

Which "public" are they supposed to protect - the general population, or those that are apparently threatening violence? How long do they wait until they spray - until an officer is down and being beaten/stabbed/eviscerated? Until buildings are burning? Until there are mass murders at the hands of uncontrolled rioters?

Do you see what hysteria does with this argument?

To _MY_ eye - which has only been able to see this one tape - it would appear that the two women that were sprayed were the two most vocal - and the two that were most visibly pushing on the barricade. In _MY_ training, those would be the people that should be considered as targets for increased use of force to compel compliance with the existing laws. Obviously the OFFICERS thought there was a threat. We are passive witnesses to this, and can't see things as THEY saw them.

And WHO are these eyewitnesses that say the cops were "heavy-handed"? I would bet that they have a vested interest in the message the protesters are pushing. Until there were actual names, I would consider this just as credible as those folks in prison that all claim, "I'm innocent!"

There are many who would argue that the necessity of permits to peacefully protest is unconstitutional in itself. In practise, it means that protests are confined to 'free speech zones' often far outside the city. The reason that they didn't have permits wasn't because they were out to cause trouble, it was because they never would have been granted permits to march in Wall Street and they wanted to exercise their right to peacefully protest in whatever manner they saw fit.

Where do the protesters' rights get to trample on the rights of other citizens? When protesters are blocking traffic, preventing commerce and disrupting business, I think they lose at least SOME of their right to protest. How would YOU like it if you ran a business in the area - and lost revenue due to the protests?

They weren't out to cause trouble? Then why are they blocking traffic and pushing against the barricades? LAW ABIDING citizens don't do that. What is your definition of "trouble"?? Is it just destruction and mayhem, or does it include safety and security as well?

I might also ask about your definition of "peacefully protest" as well... normally, it doesn't include pushing police officers and possible threats of violence.

[_Only]

I might also ask about your definition of "peacefully protest" as well... normally, it doesn't include pushing police officers and possible threats of violence.

Peaceful protests often aren't meant to jump to that scenario, but often do, due to people being in the moment and a general feeling of power and purpose through mob mentality. That's why sometimes police have to make a show of force to try to dissipate the building tension. Unfortunately, people end up getting their feelings hurt when these mob peacekeeping tactics are used. But there has yet to be found a better way for the police to break a building scenario of a group of protesters with building negative energy.

Thing is, now everyone has a cellphone and YouTube account, just waiting to witness a Rodney King in progress, and now police have to worry about people misconstruing a situation while they're doing their thing.

[jugoso]

You didn't miss anything trust me. I saw these wacko hippie college kids just trying to get attention. The traffic they caused made me late for work. At least that's what I used for my excuse lol.

I Love it......wacko hippie college kids. It must be nice to paint all protesters with one brush and write them all of. I, for one, am glad that someone, ANYONE, is protesting the Ponzi scheme we are all a part of.

[Damrod]

I personally think the "rage at the machine" is over the fact that these wall street money lusters got zero punishment...nada...their greed destroyed thousands and thousands of peoples lives and they didn't even get a slap on the wrist or a hefty fine...they got an frigging raise...

yes...there is something extremely wrong with this picture...

Edited September 26, 2011 by Damrod

[Subliminal]

These protests have been going on for almost a week now and I still haven't seen a single article on the mainstream news sites(the ones I check anyway).

Piers Morgan was covering it tonight.

They are protesting wall street. All of wall street( the actual street) was closed for the week with cops everywhere. It was nothing but a bunch of hippie college kids with body paint and homemade signs. Very annoying because that plus the UN meetings this week caused a gridlock in NYC.

Students that have giant debts and no jobs,

Grandparents (especially "Grannies for Ending the Fed")

Non-New Yorkers

EX-BANKERS against the FED

Long Islanders

-----

All sorts of Americans showed up for this.

[Thanato]

Minor point but cs gas is not the same as pepper spray.

Id take cs over pepper any day. Cs effects are gone quickly once you're out of its area, pepper spray sticks and stings until washed off.

Have you ever been gassed by CS Gas? It will stay with you untill washed off... I've been gassed 3 times.

~Thanato

[Varelse]

Have you ever been gassed by CS Gas? It will stay with you untill washed off... I've been gassed 3 times.

~Thanato

Yes, two trips to a cs gas chamber myself, ooh-RAH.

Two indirect but good hits nontheless with police grade pepper spray, wrong place at the wrong time.

We weren't allowed to wash off the cs, just cleaned out my nose and wiped my face with my sleeve and it was off to the rifle range. Eta: but I do remember washing those utilities twice before wearing them again.

The pepper spray was far more aggravating, nose burned for about a day.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Framling

[H.H. Holmes]

I personally think the "rage at the machine" is over the fact that these wall street money lusters got zero punishment...nada...their greed destroyed thousands and thousands of peoples lives and they didn't even get a slap on the wrist or a hefty fine...they got an frigging raise...

yes...there is something extremely wrong with this picture...

Exactly my feelings, these people have every right to protest and they come from all walks of life, not just from liberal campuses. People lost their homes, their jobs, their means to take care of their families due to the greed that is present in Wall Street. It is long overdue that people stood up to the Wall Street thugs who only care about the bottom dollar and make profit off of other people's misery.

I've seen accounts of many Wall Street brokers that when the Towers fell on 9/11 that the first thing they thought of was how much the price of gold would skyrocket, which it did almost double in the weeks after the tragedy. These people only care about making a sizable commission and earning profit for the companies they represent. They don't care about the average person being thrown out of their house through sub-prime mortgage schemes or the fact that slave labor is used by their employers in developing country. This country has been bought and paid for a long time ago by corporate entities, ever since Reagan was put into the presidency. Every president after that has been given exuberant sums of money towards their campaigns through lobbying, even Obama was given a million dollars by Goldman-Sachs. Goldman-Sachs practically ran the treasury under the Bush administration and executed a perfectly planned robbery of the American taxpayers. The CEO's and executives of the huge banks went on a party with the money they were given to bail them out. Hotels, raises, overseas trips, and all sorts of other luxuries were paid for by YOU the American taxpayer, while a huge portion of the population was, and still is, suffering in poverty.

I say that business should be disrupted, these people will only contain their greed once there is real consequences for their actions. We need to put fear into their hearts and stand up and say that it isn't right to generate income at any cost, which is the status quo (even a legal requirement) for any corporate entity. If we want to protect the long term interests of our country, both domestic and foreign, we need to put halt to the narrow-minded ideals of these large corporations whose only concern is generating money for their shareholders in the short-term.

[Varelse]

snip;;*

I can't fault another human for surviving better than the rest of us, it 's instinct. Its some of the upper 3%ers that are screwing it up for everyone else, including small and medium sized businesses.

These people should not be the middle or lower starting classes' enemy but their greatest ally in repairing our fed. govt. and banking system.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Framling

[Damrod]

Little update on the overall story of the police violence and brutality.

http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/28/8022730-rewriting-nypds-pepper-spray-incident

[Travelling Man]

Little update on the overall story of the police violence and brutality.

http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/28/8022730-rewriting-nypds-pepper-spray-incident

And you TRUST this source? This is MSNBC - which is even LESS credible (if that's possible) than FOXNews. You will notice how there are several cutaways in the filming - and then cut-backs where it would appear that cops are REACTING to something... and then they take action. Hmmmm, it makes me wonder what wasn't being shown in the edit... perhaps the PROTESTERS doing something? Naaaaahhhhhh - they'd never do THAT!

I can't wait for an unbiased source comes out - with unedited video. Perhaps a traffic camera? Then we can see what happens BETWEEN the convenient edits.

[runekazter]

You see yelling, you can't hear what is being said.

The police have the duty to defend themselves and those around them. You can't tell anything from this video other then the Police are trying to separate this particular group of people.

Now I would rather be pepper sprayed then tasered or shot. Besides it doesn't hurt that much. I've been gassed by CS Gas and that **** stings but you can still be mobile.

Needs more information.

~Thanato

agreed i would rather be sprayed than zapped but it is still painful and very uncomfortable. The spray burns like hell and the tears it causes your eyes to shed will burn even more. not to mention the fumes can induce vomitting. so there you are blinded, burning and throwing up.

[acidhead]

Just because somebody is yelling at you, law enforcement or not, gives absolutely no legal right to attack the person physically. It has no logical reasoning and it is illegal. What the officer did was an abuse of power. Those who advocate otherwise... try it in public. Next time you hear somebody screaming at another person, go up to them and assault them. I hope a law enforcement officer is around because no matter what they said to you, no matter how vulgar and abusive it may sound... it could be racist or life threatening yet you will be charged... Its that plain and simple. It's obvious that the law enforcement agent who sprayed the women reacted to his own personal emotions and reacted with violence to counter what he emotionally was not able to handle. He should be sent to program to rehabilitate his abusive behavior.

[_Only]

Just because somebody is yelling at you, law enforcement or not, gives absolutely no legal right to attack the person physically. It has no logical reasoning and it is illegal.

Depends what they were yelling. A few people yell "let's storm past the barriers and cause some real trouble" or something similar in a mob of protesters, sometimes action needs to be taken to disperse the potential troublemakers.

But as more footage has come forward I can't help but feel a rogue cop vibe from Lunchmeat. We all know that old man a few doors down who has gained an unhealthy skewed sense of self-righteousness and duty in his old age, and the resulting events.

But in the end, that's just a vibe from me seeing a few short instances of him acting (or reacting) against something I have not seen. Same as the rest of you.

[H.H. Holmes]

And you TRUST this source? This is MSNBC - which is even LESS credible (if that's possible) than FOXNews. You will notice how there are several cutaways in the filming - and then cut-backs where it would appear that cops are REACTING to something... and then they take action. Hmmmm, it makes me wonder what wasn't being shown in the edit... perhaps the PROTESTERS doing something? Naaaaahhhhhh - they'd never do THAT!

I can't wait for an unbiased source comes out - with unedited video. Perhaps a traffic camera? Then we can see what happens BETWEEN the convenient edits.

I have to disagree, I was watching the Lawrence O'Donnell show on that network and he was very critical of the police. It matters what specific show you watch on the network, some will have opinions that favor the police and some that are very critical of the police.

[Grey14]

If they were being non compliant then pepper spray is a form of crowd control. They got a quick blast and it was deserved if they were not doing what they were told to do.

[make me believe]

Notice the assortment of plutocrats in this clip looking down on the crowd @0:54 .... How much more symbolism do you need?

F. Scott Fitzgerald would be proud!!! No joke, these blue bloods are AMAZING!!!

Edited October 1, 2011 by make me believe

[_Only]

Notice the assortment of plutocrats in this clip looking down on the crowd @0:54 .... How much more symbolism do you need?

F. Scott Fitzgerald would be proud!!! No joke, these blue bloods are AMAZING!!!

Reminds me of a Family Guy episode when Bill Gates and Michael Eisner are riding their jetpacks.

Michael: The people look like ants from up here.

Bill Gates: (cryptically) They are ants, Michael. They are ants.

[preacherman76]

If they were being non compliant then pepper spray is a form of crowd control. They got a quick blast and it was deserved if they were not doing what they were told to do.

Depends. If they were told to do somthing that violated thier constitutional rights or not.

[Wandering]

I'm astounded at all the sad sad people on here who immediately side with the law here. Have you all been brainwashed so badly? 'Derr well the policemanz must have had a reazon to do it otherwize he wouldd have givven themm sum candy hur hur'

The man in question has been identified as Anthony Bologna, who is a Deputy Inspector. He's been the subject of a civil rights complaint in 2004 as well

In all of your comments, none of you seem to notice that the officer that does this, (in 2 videos in 2 separate incidences I might add) just walks up to a group of women and sprays them with pepper spray, then walks off. He wasn't involved with any of the police 'kettling' the women, which is another trespass on human rights I may add, he just walked up, sprayed, walked off.

You can distinctly hear the women say 'stop it what are you doing, we're peaceful' in the 2nd video.

Anyone who says this isn't police brutality, or attempts to 'look on both sides of the issue' has obviously spent a bit too much time behind the screen and not on the streets. You're out of touch with the real world & what happens when you dare to voice your own opinion.

[_Only]

I'm astounded at all the sad sad people on here who immediately side with the law here. Have you all been brainwashed so badly? 'Derr well the policemanz must have had a reazon to do it otherwize he wouldd have givven themm sum candy hur hur'

The man in question has been identified as Anthony Bologna, who is a Deputy Inspector. He's been the subject of a civil rights complaint in 2004 as well

In all of your comments, none of you seem to notice that the officer that does this, (in 2 videos in 2 separate incidences I might add) just walks up to a group of women and sprays them with pepper spray, then walks off. He wasn't involved with any of the police 'kettling' the women, which is another trespass on human rights I may add, he just walked up, sprayed, walked off.

You can distinctly hear the women say 'stop it what are you doing, we're peaceful' in the 2nd video.

Anyone who says this isn't police brutality, or attempts to 'look on both sides of the issue' has obviously spent a bit too much time behind the screen and not on the streets. You're out of touch with the real world & what happens when you dare to voice your own opinion.

You haven't added anything we didn't all already know, and have just shown you are able to read basic obvious assumptions into what you have seen. Then further make a dangerous assumption that what one man may or may have not done reflects the mentality of an entire organization.

I don't find it sad when people have a varying opinion of mine. I do, however, feel sad when the best way they can convey it is by insulting others.