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Persia

5 Reasons Why 'Occupy Wall Street' Won't Work

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Persia

It's easy to hate Wall Street. In movies, bankers are portrayed as heartless, greed-driven jerks. Some people blame the recent financial crisis and the recession that followed on Wall Street duping Americans into signing up for predatory mortgages. Others say that these rich bankers, traders, and investors don't pay enough money in taxes. These and other anti-Wall Street attitudes have led to a protest in Lower Manhattan that continues to grow. But for a variety of reasons, it isn't likely to accomplish anything.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/10/5-reasons-why-occupy-wall-street-wont-work/246041/?google_editors_picks=true

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conspiracybeliever

Those angry with Wall Street should seek more effective means of affecting change than this.

Too bad he didn't give some suggestions as to what the more effective means would be. At least they are doing something.

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BlindMessiah

Those angry with Wall Street should seek more effective means of affecting change than this.

Too bad he didn't give some suggestions as to what the more effective means would be. At least they are doing something.

See we've had this debate previously. I don't see how they're doing anything. Unless there is a change in Wall Street's corporate culture, or some form of Congressional legislation is passed, nothing concerning Wall Street will change. Nothing these protesters are doing is going to result in either of these things. They aren't even presenting a consolidated message about specific things they want. A protest is pointless without demands. I'm sure various demands are being made, but none of those demands are the face of this protest or movement or whatever you want to call it. It's accomplishing nothing, and with that in mind, they are not doing something.

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DieChecker

See we've had this debate previously. I don't see how they're doing anything. Unless there is a change in Wall Street's corporate culture, or some form of Congressional legislation is passed, nothing concerning Wall Street will change. Nothing these protesters are doing is going to result in either of these things. They aren't even presenting a consolidated message about specific things they want. A protest is pointless without demands. I'm sure various demands are being made, but none of those demands are the face of this protest or movement or whatever you want to call it. It's accomplishing nothing, and with that in mind, they are not doing something.

I agree totally. They don't have any stated common goal or purpose, other then non-violent protest for its own sake, and a dislike of Wall Street.

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Marks_Thoughts

About the only common thread is that capitalism is bad. Following that are various versions of communism and socialism, kind of a mixed bag of philosophies - all Left. The interesting thing is that every instance where such economies have been attempted have lead to massive failure. Examples abound all over the globe; the Former Soviet Union, Cuba, Zimbabwe, and countless others. Even China has given up in practice and is slowly allowing capitalism to seep in, otherwise they would be facing the same rot as the Russians.

Even tempering the worst of socialism with capitalism, as has been tried all over Europe and other places leads to failure. Again, look at Greece, Spain, Portugal and others. The US if finding all of this out the hard way. Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, and yes, Obamacare, are bankrupting the nation and leading to the same catastrophe - economic ruin.

The simple fact is that Man is not an altruistic creature by nature. We are highly personal in our motives and intents. We want to live well, are willing to work hard to achieve when it means we do live well as a result, and will simply opt out if there is no personal advantage gained from any effort beyond a certain level. Every single person in the Occupy Wall Street bunch is completely uneducated about their own history, the history of other nations, and what our Founding Fathers meant when they spoke of a free nation where everyone is equal in the eyes of the law. What it means is that you have the right and arguably the responsibility to pursue happiness and to build a good life. There is nothing in there that states everyone can, will, or even should succeed. The point is that the role of government is to get the Hell Out of the Way!

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Paracelse

Every single person in the Occupy Wall Street bunch is completely uneducated about their own history, the history of other nations, and what our Founding Fathers meant when they spoke of a free nation where everyone is equal in the eyes of the law. What it means is that you have the right and arguably the responsibility to pursue happiness and to build a good life. There is nothing in there that states everyone can, will, or even should succeed. The point is that the role of government is to get the Hell Out of the Way!

When a corporation forbids a small entrepreneur the right to grow by creating loopholes for themselves they are going against the wishes of the Founding Fathers. When Corporate buy themselves the majority of congress to protect themselves and their evil deeds it's against the wishes of the Founding Fathers. When Corporate takes the money of those who do not have it to begin with to perpetuate their lavish lifestyle it goes against the wishes of the Founding Fathers. Corporate America members are not capitalist, they are fascist as they removed all morals out of their modus operandi.

When the market crashed in 2008, corporate America received fund for the government.. it's called welfare and it's socialist.

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ExpandMyMind

See we've had this debate previously. I don't see how they're doing anything. Unless there is a change in Wall Street's corporate culture, or some form of Congressional legislation is passed, nothing concerning Wall Street will change. Nothing these protesters are doing is going to result in either of these things. They aren't even presenting a consolidated message about specific things they want. A protest is pointless without demands. I'm sure various demands are being made, but none of those demands are the face of this protest or movement or whatever you want to call it. It's accomplishing nothing, and with that in mind, they are not doing something.

I hadn't thought about this previous to reading your post, but after reading, I have to say I completely agree.

One thing that is good about the protests though is the attention they are bringing to Wall Street. Whenever times get really bad, at least people will know in which direction to head.

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Stellar

Every single person in the Occupy Wall Street bunch is completely uneducated about their own history, the history of other nations, and what our Founding Fathers meant when they spoke of a free nation where everyone is equal in the eyes of the law.

Quite the sweeping statement there...

The point is that the role of government is to get the Hell Out of the Way!

Does the government "get the Hell Out of the Way" when banks & corporations need bailouts?

Is everyone equal in this nation when people of different classes are taxed different rates?

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conspiracybeliever

I stand by my statement. At least they are doing something. And if they are uneducated maybe they will learn by doing something....anything. Instead of just accepting that this is the way it is.

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lightly

I agree CB, they are demonstrating their displeasure with the status quo... it's a start. Specifics can be agreed upon and voiced as the movement grows?

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DieChecker

One possible consequence to the whole Wall Street thing, is that many of these young people are College Students, and probably will Flunk this Semester/Quarter/Term. Many of them will loose their Financial Aid. Forcing them to go Home and live with their Parents. While the Conservative students are still in college and are more likely to graduate. Thus the Left, by protesting, is instead propagating the advancement of the Right.

With thousands of students dropping or failing out, liberal colleges might flounder, and conservative minded colleges might thrive (as many states give out funding based on enrollment).

If these students really wanted to change Wall Street, they would get economics degrees and then take over Wall Street and change it from within.

The students are the only ones who are really being hurt in this situation.

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BlindMessiah

I stand by my statement. At least they are doing something. And if they are uneducated maybe they will learn by doing something....anything. Instead of just accepting that this is the way it is.

I specifically pointed out how they are not doing something so to continue to disagree without showing a flaw in my reasoning is just being stubborn. If these people want to change how Wall St works, then they need to become educated in finance, business, and economics and change it themselves.

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lightly

Our government can change how wall street works, and We can change the way Our government works. Or at least that's the way it's supposed to work. We can change wall street, the banking system, the way corporations are regulated , or not, Taxation, Foreign and domestic policy and spending, We , through the power of our government, can change anything, and or everything . We just have to force our government to do our will . The real trick is to agree on anything... but that's why the concept of majority rule was dreamed up?

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BlindMessiah

Our government can change how wall street works, and We can change the way Our government works. Or at least that's the way it's supposed to work. We can change wall street, the banking system, the way corporations are regulated , or not, Taxation, Foreign and domestic policy and spending, We , through the power of our government, can change anything, and or everything . We just have to force our government to do our will . The real trick is to agree on anything... but that's why the concept of majority rule was dreamed up?

They aren't utilizing that system or protesting in DC. These people are protesting in Wall St. Also, we don't have majority rule.

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ninjadude

Seems pretty clear to me. What do you guys not understand?

The participants of the event are mainly protesting against social and economic inequality, corporate greed, and the influence of corporate money and lobbyists on government, among other concerns
link
The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%.
link

If you just listen to the MSM, then I can understand that you don't know. They are clueless.

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F3SS

Maybe the protesters should spend more time getting or creating some type of job, earning a paycheck, paying "their fair share", quit whining, contribute to society, get back in class...yelling and screaming thoughtless talking points and clogging a major bridge causing grief to all the people who actually have some place to be is never going to change a thing.

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Aus Der Box Skeptisch

Maybe the protesters should spend more time getting or creating some type of job, earning a paycheck, paying "their fair share", quit whining, contribute to society, get back in class...yelling and screaming thoughtless talking points and clogging a major bridge causing grief to all the people who actually have some place to be is never going to change a thing.

In other words shut up and be a good little puppet.

Are you for real?

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Drj312

They should be protesting the government, not wall street. Businesses are in the business of making money, of course they will try to make money anyway they can. The problem is when the government gets involved and allows them to act irresponsibly, and then just bails them out.

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DieChecker

Seems pretty clear to me. What do you guys not understand?

link

link

If you just listen to the MSM, then I can understand that you don't know. They are clueless.

But what do they hope to do? Kill the 1%? Take away their money? Put them in prison? Send them to Mexico? What? They have a cause, sure, but no goal.

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conspiracybeliever

But what do they hope to do? Kill the 1%? Take away their money? Put them in prison? Send them to Mexico? What? They have a cause, sure, but no goal.

It's a start. People learn by doing. This is a start. That's how i justify people doing anything. We've gotten to used to doing nothing. It's a start even if they accomplish nothing here they can learn and take the next step. The most important thing is not to give up.

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Keosen

In movies, bankers are portrayed as heartless, greed-driven jerks.

While in real life are far more worse than that.

Edited by Keosen

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Taun

It's a start. People learn by doing. This is a start. That's how i justify people doing anything. We've gotten to used to doing nothing. It's a start even if they accomplish nothing here they can learn and take the next step. The most important thing is not to give up.

Just curious - not trying to argue with you or anything, just wondering - What do you think should be done? I agree that 'Wall Street' has gotten out of hand, but I really don't know what could be done to really fix the situation....

Back when the Stock Market was formed, communications was much slower than today... the market had time to adjust to 'knee jerk' reactions and settle down some... Today with instant telecommunications it has no time to adjust, just react and over react... too easy for some greedy (or just overly ambitious) broker to try and 'make that higher profit margin'...

In fact... with mass communications what it is today... do we even really need a Stock market?

I'm not an economist by any stretch of the imagination... but perhaps it has out lived it's usefullness...

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Damrod

About the only common thread is that capitalism is bad. Following that are various versions of communism and socialism, kind of a mixed bag of philosophies - all Left. The interesting thing is that every instance where such economies have been attempted have lead to massive failure. Examples abound all over the globe; the Former Soviet Union, Cuba, Zimbabwe, and countless others. Even China has given up in practice and is slowly allowing capitalism to seep in, otherwise they would be facing the same rot as the Russians.

Even tempering the worst of socialism with capitalism, as has been tried all over Europe and other places leads to failure. Again, look at Greece, Spain, Portugal and others. The US if finding all of this out the hard way. Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, and yes, Obamacare, are bankrupting the nation and leading to the same catastrophe - economic ruin.

The simple fact is that Man is not an altruistic creature by nature. We are highly personal in our motives and intents. We want to live well, are willing to work hard to achieve when it means we do live well as a result, and will simply opt out if there is no personal advantage gained from any effort beyond a certain level. Every single person in the Occupy Wall Street bunch is completely uneducated about their own history, the history of other nations, and what our Founding Fathers meant when they spoke of a free nation where everyone is equal in the eyes of the law. What it means is that you have the right and arguably the responsibility to pursue happiness and to build a good life. There is nothing in there that states everyone can, will, or even should succeed. The point is that the role of government is to get the Hell Out of the Way!

Not true...it's nice to only point out the failures that were the result of greed, corruption and power trips...how about the successes? Finland, Norway, Denmark and Sweden...very successful combinations of socialism and free enterprise...if you don't want to find the success stories...You won't...but all you have to do is look and they are out there...shining examples of people working together for the common good of their entire populations...

It's actually pretty amazing what these countries have done when gov't and business work together to make the lives of their citizens and their infrastructure better and more meaningful. When the perception that life is only about "me" (the individual) and how much wealth they can hoard or how much "stuff" they can accumulate...the real and precious meaning of life has been lost and that group of people are inevitably going to fail somewhere down the road...sound familiar?

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Harte

In other words shut up and be a good little puppet.

Regarding their "demands" list, that would be good advice.

Except for the puppet part.

For example:

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

If you get the same pay whether you are unemployed or employed, why work?

How's that gonna work out, ya think?

Harte

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ShadowSot

I'm somewhat conservative myself, but I'll be attending a protest this weekend.

I have a solid job, I'm (fairly) well educated, as are most of the people I know who are attending as well.

I used to work in metal fabrication, however much of that work has gone over seas. I was able to successfully retrain (which cost a fair amount of cash I didn't actually have, but I was able to pay without taking out a loan.)

I began working tech support for a company, and now this job is moving over seas, and I'm back to retraining for new job, as there are only a few options available for employment in my area.

I'd enter the military, however due to damage to my back, shoulder, and knee I'm not eligible.

Sure, I can go back to school and go towards a better job, but I have to be able to have the money to do so.

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