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Persia

5 Reasons Why 'Occupy Wall Street' Won't Work

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lightly

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

I take that to mean... guaranteed living wage regardless of TYPE of employment? ..and not regardless of being employed or not? They could have been more exact in the meaning .

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conspiracybeliever

Just curious - not trying to argue with you or anything, just wondering - What do you think should be done? I agree that 'Wall Street' has gotten out of hand, but I really don't know what could be done to really fix the situation....

Back when the Stock Market was formed, communications was much slower than today... the market had time to adjust to 'knee jerk' reactions and settle down some... Today with instant telecommunications it has no time to adjust, just react and over react... too easy for some greedy (or just overly ambitious) broker to try and 'make that higher profit margin'...

In fact... with mass communications what it is today... do we even really need a Stock market?

I'm not an economist by any stretch of the imagination... but perhaps it has out lived it's usefullness...

I'm certainly not an economist and don't have any answers. That was the reason for my post you replied to. It was a reaction to someone saying the protesters should stop and go back to school and learn so they can work on Wallstreet and fix the problems. I don't see that as being a solution since those people that work on Wallstreet and in our government have degrees I assume. It's peoples willingness to do almost anything for money. It's greed. I would have never even thought about not needing a stock market anymore. Maybe that is the answer. I hope so. At the moment I think protesting the greed is a good start.

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McFakename

"Hating banks is counterproductive. You simply can't live without banks in a modern, sophisticated economy." False... I do it everyday. I do not have a debit card, credit card, checking account, etc. Everything I do is cash hand to hand.

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Harte

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

I take that to mean... guaranteed living wage regardless of TYPE of employment? ..and not regardless of being employed or not? They could have been more exact in the meaning .

Okay.

Then how is wall street supposed to bring that or this about:

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Or this:

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Or this:

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now!

What do you think would happen to the economy if that last one was actually fulfilled? Just serious consideration of such an idiotic act would plunge the entire world into a depression worse than the Great depression, IMO.

Harte

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conspiracybeliever

Okay.

Then how is wall street supposed to bring that or this about:

Or this:

Or this:

What do you think would happen to the economy if that last one was actually fulfilled? Just serious consideration of such an idiotic act would plunge the entire world into a depression worse than the Great depression, IMO.

Harte

They are going to extremes just like everyone who makes decisions for us every day. They know they won't get all that they ask for.

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F3SS

In other words shut up and be a good little puppet.

Are you for real?

They already are puppets of entitlement ideals. None of them have the guts to do something for themselves. They have all been taught to b****, moan and complain about everyone who succeeds financially and doesn't give them what they want. You know, everything for nothing. They are a small disruptive thorn in our societies side and will have zero effect on how business is done.

They should be protesting the government, not wall street. Businesses are in the business of making money, of course they will try to make money anyway they can. The problem is when the government gets involved and allows them to act irresponsibly, and then just bails them out.

Absolutely correct.

Regarding their "demands" list,

For example:

If you get the same pay whether you are unemployed or employed, why work?

How's that gonna work out, ya think?

Harte

exactly. Incentive for success and self-responsibility dissapears. So does modern societal and technological development because for example...who wants to become an engineer and receive similar compensation as a bathroom attendant? Or why would someone spend 8-20 years in school to become a doctor only to receive the same pay as a car detailer. Then again, where are all the professors to teach going to come from in their world? After all, education is free in their utopia therefore teaching must be charity work. See all their ideas and demands are senseless and will never work in a country of 300 million+ people. NEVER!

They are going to extremes just like everyone who makes decisions for us every day. They know they won't get all that they ask for.

They will get nothing they ask for. The reality is that no one gives a hoot about these sorry saps. They want money for nothing and their sh!t for free. They are simply products of a far left agenda.

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Harte

And how would Wall Street be involved in granting their wishes in the first place?

These people are simply a bunch of idiots. Case closed.

Harte

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lightly

Okay.

Then how is wall street supposed to bring that or this about:

Or this:

Or this:

What do you think would happen to the economy if that last one was actually fulfilled? Just serious consideration of such an idiotic act would plunge the entire world into a depression worse than the Great depression, IMO.

Harte

I agree that their demands don't seem to make a lot of sense... and as you say , How is wall street supposed to meet their demands?

Is it for real said:Or why would someone spend 8-20 years in school to become a doctor only to receive the same pay as a car detailer.

Demand # 3 says nothing about SAME PAY, (or "money for nothing") ... it demands a guaranteed living WAGE ( which means payment in exchange for WORK)

I understand the demand to mean a guaranteed MINIMUM WAGE , based on the cost of living?

Edited by lightly

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Order66

Lucy: "1,2,3,4,5!"

Linus: "Those are good reasons."

Lucy.gif

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conspiracybeliever

They already are puppets of entitlement ideals. None of them have the guts to do something for themselves. They have all been taught to b****, moan and complain about everyone who succeeds financially and doesn't give them what they want. You know, everything for nothing. They are a small disruptive thorn in our societies side and will have zero effect on how business is done.

Absolutely correct.

exactly. Incentive for success and self-responsibility dissapears. So does modern societal and technological development because for example...who wants to become an engineer and receive similar compensation as a bathroom attendant? Or why would someone spend 8-20 years in school to become a doctor only to receive the same pay as a car detailer. Then again, where are all the professors to teach going to come from in their world? After all, education is free in their utopia therefore teaching must be charity work. See all their ideas and demands are senseless and will never work in a country of 300 million+ people. NEVER!

They will get nothing they ask for. The reality is that no one gives a hoot about these sorry saps. They want money for nothing and their sh!t for free. They are simply products of a far left agenda.

You have no clue and could care less about anyone but yourself. You are the one that wants everything for free. And I don't believe for a minute you have done anything by yourself. I think there was a lot of free **** on your way up the path and you're afraid you might lose some of that free **** and you don't have the brains to do anything for yourself so you will never get back what you got for free. You're just too ignorant to be self sufficient.

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BlindMessiah

I'm certainly not an economist and don't have any answers. That was the reason for my post you replied to. It was a reaction to someone saying the protesters should stop and go back to school and learn so they can work on Wallstreet and fix the problems. I don't see that as being a solution since those people that work on Wallstreet and in our government have degrees I assume. It's peoples willingness to do almost anything for money. It's greed.

If greedy people in power are the problem, and they got their through degrees, and these protesters are presumably claiming not to be greedy given that is what they're protesting, then to change Wall St and government's greed, non-greedy people would need to get into Wall St and government, which would require that these people get degrees. If the people currently in charge are not doing things properly, make yourself more qualified than they are, take their job, and do it properly. If you are incapable of doing that, then you don't really have much of a case.

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BlindMessiah

"Hating banks is counterproductive. You simply can't live without banks in a modern, sophisticated economy." False... I do it everyday. I do not have a debit card, credit card, checking account, etc. Everything I do is cash hand to hand.

Who regulates cash supply? Banks. Where do you spend your cash? Stores. Where do stores receive their funding? Banks.

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President-Elect Acidhead

These people are dreaming if they truly believe their demands will be met. Besides there is only one location which would be able to meet these demands and that's D.C. Somebody donate a map to their loyal cause..... hahahha

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Harte

If greedy people in power are the problem, and they got their through degrees, and these protesters are presumably claiming not to be greedy given that is what they're protesting, then to change Wall St and government's greed, non-greedy people would need to get into Wall St and government, which would require that these people get degrees. If the people currently in charge are not doing things properly, make yourself more qualified than they are, take their job, and do it properly.

Wait...

Would that make them the "greedy" people?

I see. It's a "Catch 22," then.

So, what the protesters are saying is basically:

"HEY! Stop being greedy and go away. It's OUR turn to be the greedy ones now!!!"

Harte

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conspiracybeliever

Putting Pundits to Shame: Protesters Know Exactly What They're Fighting For

Their style may not have been as mainstream as the retirees attending a Glenn Beck rally, but they knew precisely what they were there for.

"We know what we're against,” he told me, “but what do we stand for?” John had a 12-point agenda, which he acknowledged would “probably need to be condensed.” “We need to bring back Glass-Steagal,” he said, referring to the Depression-era law that created a firewall between investment- and commercial-banking. “It's really ironic that a law whose purpose was to prevent another Great Depression was repealed and now we have an economy that is worse than at any time since the Depression,” he said. “That's strange.”

http://act.alternet.org/go/11718?akid=7664.313034.QQ6t8c&t=12

Edited by conspiracybeliever

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Order66

These people are dreaming if they truly believe their demands will be met. Besides there is only one location which would be able to meet these demands and that's D.C. Somebody donate a map to their loyal cause..... hahahha

Just follow the Yellow Brick Road :tu:

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President-Elect Acidhead

Just follow the Yellow Brick Road :tu:

hahaha

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BlindMessiah
Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

I certainly see where they are coming from in regards to ending free trade. I would personally like to see a tax imposed on all companies that hire foreign employees. I believe the tax should be the difference between the pay rate of that foreign nation and our own. For example, if a construction worker in America makes $15 an hour, and a construction worker in Foreign country A makes $5 an hour, there would be a $10 tax on the corporation for every construction worker they hire in Foreign country A.

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

I would like to see the government create a minimalist healthcare plan that covers every citizen without insurance. I believe private insurance companies should be allowed to remain and offer premium coverage to citizens who wish to pay for more than the minimalist plan.

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

This will remove all incentives to work for minimum wage. Businesses across the nation will find it impossible to find employees to work in menial positions.

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Demand four: Free college education.

This would be extremely expensive for the taxpayer. I would agree that we need to, as a nation, take a serious look at ways we can make college less expensive for students.

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

If you're going to demand something like this, you need to be offering a plan of how you expect this to be accomplished.

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Without going into their specifics, infrastructure stimulus sounds like a good idea to me.

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

These trillions are starting to add up. We can start decommissioning our existing power plants when we have alternative infrastructure established.

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

This would entail?

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

I have no idea what the impact of this would be so I'm not going to comment.

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Other than the cost, I don't see any problems with this.

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Economic chaos and complete global collapse.

(Wall St I guess could sort of meet part of this demand? They'd be bankrupt within a minute of doing it but they technically could do it.)

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

These people are really eager to shut down outlaw entire free market industries aren't they?

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

Not really familiar with how unions operate so I don't have any comment on this one either.

(Wall St can't meet this demand.)

Out of thirteen demands, only one can be met by the people they're protesting. That demand would require the people they're protesting to essentially commit suicide for themselves, and murder to the rest of the world. If Wall St were to forgive all debt, thousands of years of progress in global market relations would vanish in minutes.

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BlindMessiah

Wait...

Would that make them the "greedy" people?

I see. It's a "Catch 22," then.

So, what the protesters are saying is basically:

"HEY! Stop being greedy and go away. It's OUR turn to be the greedy ones now!!!"

Harte

Well, theoretically, if non-greedy people were to fill positions normally held by greedy people, it would result in a slow systemic change in the industry. That's quite unlikely to actually happen in reality.

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BlindMessiah

From Wall St. to K Street: Protests Kick Off In Washington DC October 6

A movement called October 2011 plans to tackle injustice in the epicenter of political corruption: Washington, DC.

http://act.alternet.org/go/11721?akid=7664.313034.QQ6t8c&t=18

Well, at least with this protest they'll show up at the correct address. That's a start I guess.

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conspiracybeliever

Well, at least with this protest they'll show up at the correct address. That's a start I guess.

No Wall Street was the start. As I said, they are learning. :tu:

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Order66

The protestors head for DC:

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BlindMessiah

No Wall Street was the start. As I said, they are learning. :tu:

You're so blinded by your dislike of government and Wall St that you fail to see how pointless are this group's actions. They're just as radical and misinformed as the Tea Party, and if they do succeed in getting political action, we're just going to see the problems the Tea Party is causing, but squared.

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conspiracybeliever

You're so blinded by your dislike of government and Wall St that you fail to see how pointless are this group's actions. They're just as radical and misinformed as the Tea Party, and if they do succeed in getting political action, we're just going to see the problems the Tea Party is causing, but squared.

Ha! You just don't want to admit you are wrong and that they may just make something happen. :D

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