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Persia

5 Reasons Why 'Occupy Wall Street' Won't Work

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Aus Der Box Skeptisch

The only impression I had of these people before reading this demand list was that they weren't accomplishing anything by protesting Wall St so I had no expectations when reading the list.

Y

I stated my reason for the interpretation. First of all, regardless of employment, typically means whether or not you are employed, not where you are employed. So if they mean what you claim, it's an odd way to word it. The other reason is that they already called for raising the minimum wage to $20 in demand one, so they'd just be repeating themselves with demand three. Unless they're pointlessly repeating themselves, demand three must have a different meaning than demand one. This would agree with the traditional reading of demand three as calling for living wage income for everyone, employed and unemployed.

I'm not claiming definitively that this is what they're calling for, but it certainly reads that way to me, and they need to clarify as there are several people just in this small thread reading it like that.

I realize they believe they are standing up for me just as the Tea Party believes it's standing up for me and I also don't agree with their cause. I didn't exactly call their cause unworthy. I disagreed with it, and said the methods they're using are making their efforts pointless, but I didn't call it unworthy.

Their demands are far worse than imperfect. I'm not disagreeing with everything they're saying as I displayed with my review. Several of their ideas are terrifying, however. They definitely need to work on their organization but that isn't my main issue with them. Given I don't agree with them, I'd be perfectly content with them remaining unorganized. I'm sorry but a bunch of people politically protesting has no parallel to military service. They aren't fighting for freedom. If you were ask them to sum up what they're fighting for, I'm pretty sure they'd claim it was economic equality. The issues they're protesting just really aren't civil rights issues. No one is this thread has even mentioned the military let alone call them murderers. I didn't call the protesters lazy. I called them unorganized and wrong. So every group that does something they believe helps America should be supported by everyone?

If my leg is injured, and I ask someone to help, and they come up with the idea to set my leg on fire by sacrificing a goat to the sun, I'm not only going to dislike their idea but also think their method of achieving it is stupid. I realize this is an extreme example but the analogy works. I support people with good ideas who try and make the country better. Supporting someone on intent alone is an extremely dangerous principle.

Don't get me wrong I do not disagree with everything you are saying.

As to the military comment... I said it and I brought it up. I support those who serve the military. I do not agree with the wars. Just as I support the people who are taking the time to bring foward by protesting that something is wrong with this country economically. But I do not agree with all their demands. I support the people and their meaning. Does that Make more sense?

Also I was ranting a bit. I apologize for that. Passion you know.

And the murder comment... well after Vietnam especially when the soldiers came home they were referred to as murderers. Even though they were just doing a duty for this country. I still believe there is a connection. You see the protesters are trying make make a loud statement that we need change and I don't feel this would be spoken about right now without the protesters.

Well I've babbled enouph so ill stop here for now. If I missed anything important just let me know and ill address it individually. Well ill offer my opinion. I'm not the one with answers. I'm am just proud of all the people willingly standing up.

Edit typo

Edited by Aus Der Box Skeptisch

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conspiracybeliever

Personally I think minimum wage should be at least $13 an hour but that would be with affordable health care and we also have to do something about housing costs. Actually the cost of most things. And we have to stop the corruption at the bottom and top. We desparately need to stop the corruption in our legal system. That should be at the top of the list. It is creating problems, crime and violence and poverty. And I do support the protestors. They are doing something. They may be a bit extreme with some of their ideas but listen to our politicians. That is their game. Maybe they'll beat them at their own game.

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President-Elect Acidhead

Do not misunderstand, I don't disagree with you at all. Every single adult and every single business entity in this nation should pay the same percentage in taxes. No write offs, no loopholes, no government looking to pick the winners, no bail outs, no argument about the fact that you are a citizen of this nation and have a responsibility to pay your share. Yet, I look and see billions going to 'green' technology companies, subsidies for this, that and the other. Tax breaks for this, that and the other. This is bankrupting our nation and breeds a rotting corruption we have put up with for far too long.

Why is it fair or equitable that someone who makes minimum wage has withholdings that must be claimed back at the end of the tax season and maybe even get more back than they had withheld or those earning large amounts come out paying the lion's share of the actual tax revenues? Either extreme is wrong. The poor pay nothing - what, are they not entitled to contribute to our national success and be part of the solution? The poor should have pride and a stake in the nation just as the rich do. They deserve this kind of respect as hard-working Americans.

If you want to fix the corruption vote for Herman Cain and his 9-9-9 proposal. I will.

Do you have any idea how to run a business? What you're describing would ruin business.. especially small business owners.. grind everything to a halt. Do you have any idea why write offs exist? Do you?

Just because you work for somebody else today doesn't mean that you don't have the opportunity to be employing others tomorrow. Find something you like to do, practice your skills and than go do it. It may take many years or a couple decades but this is just as much your opportunity to better yourself economically as the next guy. A factory worker doesn't have to work there for the rest of his life. He can use those skills or the time spent there to decide what's best for him and how to exploit his skills by creating his own business. There is a world of opportunity out there for everybody if they have the courage to step out side their comfort zone and just do it. Life has no guarantee of success but the opportunity to better yourself still exists if you step up and do something for yourself.

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President-Elect Acidhead

Personally I think minimum wage should be at least $13 an hour but that would be with affordable health care and we also have to do something about housing costs. Actually the cost of most things. And we have to stop the corruption at the bottom and top. We desparately need to stop the corruption in our legal system. That should be at the top of the list. It is creating problems, crime and violence and poverty. And I do support the protestors. They are doing something. They may be a bit extreme with some of their ideas but listen to our politicians. That is their game. Maybe they'll beat them at their own game.

Do something about housing costs? ....such as? Keep in mind, well intended deeds, can have devastating negative effects. Drop a stone in the water and watch what happens.

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conspiracybeliever

Do something about housing costs? ....such as? Keep in mind, well intended deeds, can have devastating negative effects. Drop a stone in the water and watch what happens.

I think the stone already dropped a long time ago. When I say housing I am including rent. It is unreal what people have to pay for housing when you think about income for most. It is crippling along with everything else.

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jaguarsky

Firstly these beautiful protesters are not dirty hippies, uneducated, nor do they live in mama's basement. Most of the young people protesting all across the country are college educated, a hundred thousand dollars in debt from student loans, have no job prospects and no meaningful future. They are p***ed and rightly so.

Some of the other people, a great number I might add, from all across the country, who are protesting are the retired who have had their retirements plundered by wall street. They are the teachers who have been laid off to balance the crony capitalism budget. The are returning veterans who come home to no jobs, no prospects and reduced veteran's benefits. They are working class Americans who have seen their real wages decline over the past two decades, lost most of their benefits and have no dream of retirement, the grandparents who squeak by on social security only to be told by a large portion of our government that they are leeches and need to have their benefits cut. Then there are the airline pilots who have been joining the protest(seven hundred on one day last week alone); fighting a contract that forces even more unsafe hours per shift, less income and of course, less benefits. There are off duty policemen and women, transit workers, nurses, a myriad of labor unions, church congregations and clergy. There are even people who have previously worked in the banking industry and know what crimes have been committed.

In other words, they are just like us. All of us. Just because some of us might still have jobs doesn't mean we get to ignore the fact that we are re-living the pre-depression era. And, just because the government says the recession is over does not mean its true. I am personally appalled by the ignorance of so many Americans. Where in the hell have you been for the past 10 years? Asleep? Brainwashed? How can you look around and not see the decline of the western "empire"?

Oh, and while the grassroots nature of these protests seem unorganized, make no mistake that there are not real demands. The first being a separation of banks/corporations from the central machinery of OUR government. We are also asking for accountability for those who orchestrated the demise of our economy by cooking the books. The banks swindled, obfuscated and out and out stole trillions of dollars over the past decade and not one of them have been punished for it.

The giant multi-national corporations continue to write government policy effected everything from school lunches to who owns the water. They also govern who gets to contaminate said water and what chemicals are allowed in those school lunches. The people's voices are no longer heard in the corridors of Washington DC. It is a pay for play government and we have been priced out of the market.

One more thing. The protesters, here and abroad may not accomplish everything that is desired to return our nations to the people, but in one thing they have succeeded very well. They have started a conversation, hopefully one that will continue into the next election cycle. Our votes do not count for much, but if enough of us press the issues that are now being discussed, we may be able to start a swing back to rational governance.

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President-Elect Acidhead

I think the stone already dropped a long time ago. When I say housing I am including rent. It is unreal what people have to pay for housing when you think about income for most. It is crippling along with everything else.

So what do you propose? Rent control? Do you realize the negative effects of such policy?

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BlindMessiah

I think the stone already dropped a long time ago. When I say housing I am including rent. It is unreal what people have to pay for housing when you think about income for most. It is crippling along with everything else.

I hope you aren't suggesting rent control.

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conspiracybeliever

I'm suggesting everything control. Everything is out of control. Acidhead if everyone is going to work for themselves who is going to work for all of these larger companys? I don't understand that.

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President-Elect Acidhead

I'm suggesting everything control. Everything is out of control. Acidhead if everyone is going to work for themselves who is going to work for all of these larger companys? I don't understand that.

What is 'everything control'.... communism?

I didn't suggest everybody works for themself! Read what I said again:

Just because you work for somebody else today doesn't mean that you don't have the opportunity to be employing others tomorrow. Find something you like to do, practice your skills and than go do it. It may take many years or a couple decades but this is just as much your opportunity to better yourself economically as the next guy. A factory worker doesn't have to work there for the rest of his life. He can use those skills or the time spent there to decide what's best for him and how to exploit his skills by creating his own business. There is a world of opportunity out there for everybody if they have the courage to step out side their comfort zone and just do it. Life has no guarantee of success but the opportunity to better yourself still exists if you step up and do something for yourself.

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conspiracybeliever

What is 'everything control'.... communism?

I didn't suggest everybody works for themself! Read what I said again:

I'm talking about controlling all those cheating the system. That is the problem. There is nothing real. Whoever steals the most wins.

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Ravinar

What is 'everything control'.... communism?

she is talking about putting forth some regulations. and if you say communism is response to this then you will just be highlighting your profound stupidity.

I didn't suggest everybody works for themself! Read what I said again:

Ok.

Just because you work for somebody else today doesn't mean that you don't have the opportunity to be employing others tomorrow.

......(facepalms)

explaining how stupid that was in words just isn't going to work.

Edited by Ravinar

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Ravinar

Firstly these beautiful protesters are not dirty hippies, uneducated, nor do they live in mama's basement. Most of the young people protesting all across the country are college educated, a hundred thousand dollars in debt from student loans, have no job prospects and no meaningful future. They are p***ed and rightly so.

Some of the other people, a great number I might add, from all across the country, who are protesting are the retired who have had their retirements plundered by wall street. They are the teachers who have been laid off to balance the crony capitalism budget. The are returning veterans who come home to no jobs, no prospects and reduced veteran's benefits. They are working class Americans who have seen their real wages decline over the past two decades, lost most of their benefits and have no dream of retirement, the grandparents who squeak by on social security only to be told by a large portion of our government that they are leeches and need to have their benefits cut. Then there are the airline pilots who have been joining the protest(seven hundred on one day last week alone); fighting a contract that forces even more unsafe hours per shift, less income and of course, less benefits. There are off duty policemen and women, transit workers, nurses, a myriad of labor unions, church congregations and clergy. There are even people who have previously worked in the banking industry and know what crimes have been committed.

In other words, they are just like us. All of us. Just because some of us might still have jobs doesn't mean we get to ignore the fact that we are re-living the pre-depression era. And, just because the government says the recession is over does not mean its true. I am personally appalled by the ignorance of so many Americans. Where in the hell have you been for the past 10 years? Asleep? Brainwashed? How can you look around and not see the decline of the western "empire"?

Oh, and while the grassroots nature of these protests seem unorganized, make no mistake that there are not real demands. The first being a separation of banks/corporations from the central machinery of OUR government. We are also asking for accountability for those who orchestrated the demise of our economy by cooking the books. The banks swindled, obfuscated and out and out stole trillions of dollars over the past decade and not one of them have been punished for it.

The giant multi-national corporations continue to write government policy effected everything from school lunches to who owns the water. They also govern who gets to contaminate said water and what chemicals are allowed in those school lunches. The people's voices are no longer heard in the corridors of Washington DC. It is a pay for play government and we have been priced out of the market.

One more thing. The protesters, here and abroad may not accomplish everything that is desired to return our nations to the people, but in one thing they have succeeded very well. They have started a conversation, hopefully one that will continue into the next election cycle. Our votes do not count for much, but if enough of us press the issues that are now being discussed, we may be able to start a swing back to rational governance.

Wonderful post here. really hits the nail on the head.

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President-Elect Acidhead

I'm talking about controlling all those cheating the system. That is the problem. There is nothing real. Whoever steals the most wins.

The way I see it is: Whoever gets Bailed out the most wins.

Think about what would have happened if back in '08 the too-bigs were forced, by the power of the market, to file chapter 11 proceedings.... sure the markets would have tumbled, people would have lost their homes, many their jobs and violence would have resulted...........

but, it would have been a fair deal for everybody.... mistakes would have been looked at and anylized. The answers to these problems would have been addressed instead of papered over and by now the pieces would have been picked up and the economy improving... same goes for Europe.

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questionmark

The fact that some people have to write articles to show why this will not work is indicative of one thing: It is working.

Most all these people want is to get a message across: We are sick and tired of 1% getting 99% of the goods in this country. They should listen 'cause next time it might not be so peaceful.

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President-Elect Acidhead

she is talking about putting forth some regulations. and if you say communism is response to this then you will just be highlighting your profound stupidity.

Ok.

......(facepalms)

explaining how stupid that was in words just isn't going to work.

? what?!

There is still a load of opportunity in America. Those who point their fingers at others for their own choices are only blaming themselves.

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F3SS

You have no clue and could care less about anyone but yourself. You are the one that wants everything for free. And I don't believe for a minute you have done anything by yourself. I think there was a lot of free **** on your way up the path and you're afraid you might lose some of that free **** and you don't have the brains to do anything for yourself so you will never get back what you got for free. You're just too ignorant to be self sufficient.

I own a business you dipstick. I employee 5 people. I pay out 150-200 man hours a week not including myself, my partner and my subcontractors. So really my entire payroll is between 280-380 hours most weeks of the year, sometimes more. I/we do plenty. I have subcontractor crews also whom I keep busy much of the year. I do more in one week than you do in a year. I own a house, a dog, 2 vehicles, tools, tv's, computers and much more. I am not bragging but rather telling you I am proud to say I have paid for everything myself and I earned and deserve it all.

If greedy people in power are the problem, and they got their through degrees, and these protesters are presumably claiming not to be greedy given that is what they're protesting, then to change Wall St and government's greed, non-greedy people would need to get into Wall St and government, which would require that these people get degrees. If the people currently in charge are not doing things properly, make yourself more qualified than they are, take their job, and do it properly. If you are incapable of doing that, then you don't really have much of a case.

Correct. They choose to complain and cry to achieve their goals instead of achieving them through their own accomplishments.

Maybe you should learn what's really going on. There are FIVE job seekers for every one job.

well standing on the Brooklyn bridge for two weeks isn't helping their job hunt.

Are you sure? It's not really clear which way they mean it. I would interpret it as saying whether or not you're employed. The reason I say this, they already said they want to raise minimum wage to a living wage of $20 an hour. Minimum wage affects every place of employment. This makes it seem to me that they're calling for everyone to get it regardless of employment.

$20 an hour minimum would put every business out of business. Who do you think is going to have to pay those wages. Companies will be passing off that cost to me and you. In my business, I need to charge a customer $27 an hour minimum for a $20 an hour guy just to pay for his wage plus payroll tax plus workers comp. That in includes $0 for overhead and $0 for profit. I would be out of business just because no one is going to or could afford to pay what I would need to charge just to stay in business and make a 'living wage' for myself.

Edit::: I pay everyone on my crew nearly or at least double minimum wage and more. There would be no incentive to try harder, learn more or go above and beyond in an attempt to earn more $$ if everyone was paid $20 right off the bat. In fact there would be a severe decline in production by employees. If I had been getting $20 an hour before I went off on my own, well let's say there would be one less motivated job creator out there...

? what?!

There is still a load of opportunity in America. Those who point their fingers at others for their own choices are only blaming themselves.

Acidhead, Harte....you guys get it. Believe me that there are more of us than 'them' out there. The media would have you believe otherwise though.

Edited by Is it for real

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questionmark

? what?!

There is still a load of opportunity in America. Those who point their fingers at others for their own choices are only blaming themselves.

You don't even have the right to grow your own food in America. And not all can live from repairing computers (if capable to do so) or selling hamburgers. And that still does not address the American fundamental problem: It does not even produce enough to pay for the oil bill.

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Order66

This is the fifth communiqué from the 99.9 percent. We are occupying Wall Street, and we're not going home until it gets really cold.

99.9 percent? If everyone is behind it then nobody is.

Edited by Halloween78

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President-Elect Acidhead

You don't even have the right to grow your own food in America. And not all can live from repairing computers (if capable to do so) or selling hamburgers. And that still does not address the American fundamental problem: It does not even produce enough to pay for the oil bill.

Yes, let's get to the fundamental problem... let's locate it.

Why doesn't America produce enough? Also, why is that oil bill so high?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFz1VVXsWRU&feature=player_embedded

Edited by acidhead

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conspiracybeliever

I own a business you dipstick. I employee 5 people. I pay out 150-200 man hours a week not including myself, my partner and my subcontractors. So really my entire payroll is between 280-380 hours most weeks of the year, sometimes more. I/we do plenty. I have subcontractor crews also whom I keep busy much of the year. I do more in one week than you do in a year. I own a house, a dog, 2 vehicles, tools, tv's, computers and much more. I am not bragging but rather telling you I am proud to say I have paid for everything myself and I earned and deserve it all.

And I suppose you are going to tell us that you started from nothing and with no one to help right? You do more in one week than I do in a year? And how do you know this? Are you spying on me? Why do you think you should not have to pay your workers a living wage? You do know they need to live too don't you? If you aren't paying them a living wage other people, tax payers, have to make up for that right? So why do you think you should get something for free? Why should we pay for your workers? It doesn't sound like you paid for everything yourself and it doesn't sound like you earned it all by yourself dipstick!

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Michelle

You don't even have the right to grow your own food in America.

That would be news to an awfully lot of people that actually do.

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questionmark

Yes, let's get to the fundamental problem... let's locate it.

Why doesn't America produce enough? Also, why is that oil bill so high?

Let me quote myself: Because it is more lucrative to speculate on the commodity market than producing any commodity. That is why we need a hefty tax on speculation to offset the incentive to speculate instead of producing.

I keep on saying that but nobody is listening.

Edited by questionmark

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Michelle

And I suppose you are going to tell us that you started from nothing and with no one to help right?

I'm curious what you consider help.

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Harte

I'm suggesting everything control. Everything is out of control. Acidhead if everyone is going to work for themselves who is going to work for all of these larger companys? I don't understand that.

Mussolini made that suggestion as well.

Harte

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