Obama: Pass my jobs bill or explain yourself

[Damrod]

Well lets hear what the resident financial and economic geniuses have up their sleeves. I mean you guys are politicians right?...I mean you have masters and phd's in economics correct?...Otherwise you are talking out of your b-hole. Tell us a different/better plan...at least this plan has some validity and value...and that is according to real professionals that study this stuff for a living...not arm chair wannabe's and know-it-alls......the right wing money grubbing/wealth mongering thugs have zilch for a plan...the only plan they have is to line their pockets even more before they are tarred and feathered and ran out of town on a rail...

So...Let's hear it smart guys...what's your win-win plan that is better than the Jobs Act?

This plan is very similar to the plan used in the 40's and 50's that actually paved the way and provided the backbone for a middle class...or do you guys not like a middle class and just want a handful of wealthy and everyone else poor?

Edited October 15, 2011 by Damrod

[preacherman76]

Well lets hear what the resident financial and economic geniuses have up their sleeves. I mean you guys are politicians right?...I mean you have masters and phd's in economics correct?...Otherwise you are talking out of your b-hole. Tell us a different/better plan...at least this plan has some validity and value...and that is according to real professionals that study this stuff for a living...not arm chair wannabe's and know-it-alls......the right wing money grubbing/wealth mongering thugs have zilch for a plan...the only plan they have is to line their pockets even more before they are tarred and feathered and ran out of town on a rail...

According to "real professionals" hu? LOL, not those same "professionals" who days before the 2008 crash said that everything was great and recomended investments in Bear, and Goldman, and AIG? Was it the same "professionals" who told us the stimulas was a good thing, and would put America back to work, and within 6 months would bring unemployment back down to 9%? Are they the same "professionals" that laughed when a small handful of economists said Gold would be 2000 dollars a oz by this time?

Do you really think its only republicans that line thier pockets? 0bama himself is clearly in the pockets of the federal reserve, and several big corperations. Heck he handed several million new customers to private for profit insurance companies, by threat of force.

So...Let's hear it smart guys...what's your win-win plan that is better than the Jobs Act?

Personaly Id start with leveling the playing field and ending unfair trade agreements between us and Asian countries. Lower taxes, make this place friendly to manufactors once again. Thats to start with.

This plan is very similar to the plan used in the 40's and 50's that actually paved the way and provided the backbone for a middle class...or do you guys not like a middle class and just want a handful of wealthy and everyone else poor?

One big difference. We werent 23 trillion dollars in debt in the 40's and 50's. Our dollar wasnt on the verge of complete collapse either. Printing a bunch of money to provide jobs that produce nothing, for one year, is hardly even close to a solution to our problems. In fact, it only expands our problems.

[ninjadude]

It's not like the Democrats are all... "Hey let's all just work together to get things done!"

They are as set against doing what the Tea Party and the Conservative Republicans want to do as is true the other way round.

Why should the Republicans assist Obama when his main ideaology is directly against their own stated goals?

I have to agree with Preacherman, Obama does not need the Republicans to make him look bad.

Actually it is but as usual you both are missing the point i responded to. The poster was complaining about the parties not working together in Congress. Repubs have no other agenda other than to make sure OBama doesnt get re-elected. Destroying the country is ok with them to accomplish that goal. They have publically stated they have no intention on compromising on anything. So don't complain about gridlock or getting things done. Compromise means both sides give a little not just Democrats - which up to this point are the only ones compromising anything.

[preacherman76]

Actually it is but as usual you both are missing the point i responded to. The poster was complaining about the parties not working together in Congress. Repubs have no other agenda other than to make sure OBama doesnt get re-elected. Destroying the country is ok with them to accomplish that goal. They have publically stated they have no intention on compromising on anything. So don't complain about gridlock or getting things done. Compromise means both sides give a little not just Democrats - which up to this point are the only ones compromising anything.

Spending even MORE money we dont have is destroying this country. Thinking republicans are willing to destroy this country cause they are trying to stop him from spending more money is ridiculas.

[+DieChecker]

Actually it is but as usual you both are missing the point i responded to. The poster was complaining about the parties not working together in Congress. Repubs have no other agenda other than to make sure OBama doesnt get re-elected. Destroying the country is ok with them to accomplish that goal. They have publically stated they have no intention on compromising on anything. So don't complain about gridlock or getting things done. Compromise means both sides give a little not just Democrats - which up to this point are the only ones compromising anything.

If you're boss took you into his office and told you he was going to take 10% of your pay and give it to your co-worker, because you get paid more then he does, it does not take a genius to say No, and argue that as being unfair.

If your friends handed you there checkbook and said they wanted to live on a budget, yet kept living at 200% of their income would you be right to tell them No More? People elected the Tea Party candidates for the express reason of lowering taxes and balancing the budget. When they say No to new taxes or increased spending that is them doing what they were elected to do. They are Representing those who sent them there. Preventing more spending... creating gridlock is what they were sent there to do.

There is no guarantee of compromise. The Dems did not compromise in 2009, other then within their own party.

I don't think reducing spending is destroying the country. I don't think stopping the Jobs Bill from passing or voting against every Obama initiated bill is destroying the country. I think it is called Leverage. Whoever has the most leverage gets the better deal. The Republicans are just seeing how much leverage they can get. If the Democrats really want to pass the Jobs Bill, they will give over even more. If the Republicans have enough leverage eventually the bill will reflect Republican values rather then Big New Deal superspending.

[+DieChecker]

Obama announced that the broad initiative would be broken into smaller, separate bills.

"In the coming days, members of Congress will have to take a stand on whether they believe we should put teachers, construction workers, police officers and firefighters back on the job," he said in a statement Tuesday. "They'll get a vote on whether they believe we should protect tax breaks for small business owners and middle-class Americans, or whether we should protect tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires."

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Virginia, meanwhile, indicated there could be agreement on some elements.

"Let's work together, let's find some of the things in his plan that we agree with and let's go ahead and do that for the American people," he told "Fox News Sunday."

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/16/politics/jobs-plan/

Oh Lordy... Yes, yes... Everyone is out to get Obama. Not!

It seems to me this is how everything should have been done from the beginning. Then at least some of the overall plan will be started, instead of just lumping it all into one giant turdkey sanwhich and then threatening and trying to force everyone to eat it. Which, obviously the giant stupid bill method is not working. So I am glad that they are turning to logic and trying to pass the parts one at a time. This is the same logic I proposed that Obama should have used for his health care reform. If he had done it this way, we'd have had reform a year earlier and had much better bipartisan support.

[ninjadude]

Spending even MORE money we dont have is destroying this country. Thinking republicans are willing to destroy this country cause they are trying to stop him from spending more money is ridiculas.

Wrong. Retraction of the economy is being accelerated by austerity in government. You can read most any rational economist to see that.

[ninjadude]

If you're boss took you into his office and told you he was going to take 10% of your pay and give it to your co-worker, because you get paid more then he does, it does not take a genius to say No, and argue that as being unfair.

If your friends handed you there checkbook and said they wanted to live on a budget, yet kept living at 200% of their income would you be right to tell them No More?

Neither of those things have anything to do or any relationship to US economics. They are simply unrelated.

[+DieChecker]

Neither of those things have anything to do or any relationship to US economics. They are simply unrelated.

So what is destroying America?

Basically it does not take a Harvard Economist to see major glaring inequalities and fiscal issues that need to be addressed. Sure, the Rich need to have their tax codes edited, so they get less modifiers on their taxes, but simply throwing another half trillion at things is not going to work either. It is almost like Obama wrote his Bill over the weekend and only used lawyers and union reps to help think up things to put in it.

[preacherman76]

Wrong. Retraction of the economy is being accelerated by austerity in government. You can read most any rational economist to see that.

Continuing to spend money you dont have, even after being so far in debt you could never pay it anyway, is what is destroying this country. Any rational person who runs the finances of the average American home can tell you that.

[Harte]

... simply throwing another half trillion at things is not going to work either.

That's the key.

What guarantees do we have that any "revenue increases" would be used to reduce the deficit that is going to ruin the country?

After all, promises were made in the past by the left, and subsequently broken (by both parties.)

It's certainly reasonable for people to now say "No way, not again. Not until you show real debt reduction first."

Whether that actually makes economic sense is debatable, like everything else in the soft science of economics. But that's the mood of a large portion of the public - which supposedly is in charge of the country - and their elected representatives.

Harte

[Damrod]

According to "real professionals" hu? LOL, not those same "professionals" who days before the 2008 crash said that everything was great and recomended investments in Bear, and Goldman, and AIG? Was it the same "professionals" who told us the stimulas was a good thing, and would put America back to work, and within 6 months would bring unemployment back down to 9%? Are they the same "professionals" that laughed when a small handful of economists said Gold would be 2000 dollars a oz by this time?

Do you really think its only republicans that line thier pockets? 0bama himself is clearly in the pockets of the federal reserve, and several big corperations. Heck he handed several million new customers to private for profit insurance companies, by threat of force.

Personaly Id start with leveling the playing field and ending unfair trade agreements between us and Asian countries. Lower taxes, make this place friendly to manufactors once again. Thats to start with.

One big difference. We werent 23 trillion dollars in debt in the 40's and 50's. Our dollar wasnt on the verge of complete collapse either. Printing a bunch of money to provide jobs that produce nothing, for one year, is hardly even close to a solution to our problems. In fact, it only expands our problems.

Thanks Preacherman! I was a smartass and you were quite civilized in your response!

I admit, I get a little bit passionate about these topics...especially when I see the polarization of our citizens...it seems no one gets the fact that this is part of the problem...we have to come to a compromise...even if we are drug to it wailing and gnashing our teeth...it is a must...."do or die" thing.

I know...there are no good answers that is going to make anyone completely happy...tough times are...well...tough. I still believe there is room for a balance between government and business and when I look at how our tax dollars are utilized...well I have to say I'd rather see them put back into the economy with infrastructure and public works jobs than in weapons and military cost....but that is just my point of view I suppose. One provides income for peace and the other doesn't...if you get my point.

[+DieChecker]

It's certainly reasonable for people to now say "No way, not again. Not until you show real debt reduction first."

I've wondered why it is that some Leftists say the Tea Party is a bunch of idiots, yet the OWS people they claim are very intellegent. But both are using almost the same motivation, anger/fear at unfairness against their demographic. Both are mainly emotional reactions with a layer of logic on top to try to rationalize their stance. Neither is idiotic, but then neither really seems very well informed either.

[WoIverine]

If this plan still involves raising corporate taxes, it will crash, burn, and more jobs will be lost.

[F3SS]

If this plan still involves raising corporate taxes, it will crash, burn, and more jobs will be lost.

You got that right.

[+DieChecker]

Public employees and labor union leaders joined Democrats, including Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., at a rally on Wednesday urging the Senate to pass the bill. Mr. Biden said that because of police layoffs, “murder rates are up, robberies are up, rapes are up” in many cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/us/politics/new-senate-battle-over-obamas-jobs-bill-now-piecemeal.html

Does anyone know if Robberies, Murders and Rapes are really increasing? I've been under the impression that even throughout the Recession that crime rates of those three had dropped.

[WoIverine]

Obama's throwing around his typical rhetoric trying to come off as a tough guy, sorry Barry, too little, too late.

[Leonardo]

Obama's throwing around his typical rhetoric trying to come off as a tough guy, sorry Barry, too little, too late.

Perhaps it is too little, too late. Perhaps there is a bit of truth in the words of those who suggest the Repubs will do anything to sabotage a Democrat Govt, even if it costs the country.

It is also amusing to hear those who castigated Obama-supporters for "believing him to be the Messiah", are now the ones complaining because he is not the Messiah.

Obama inherited a truly awful economy. There is no way it would ever recover quickly and truthfully I do not think it is as bad now as it could have been. It is bad, I make no bones about that, but it was always going to be. Nothing any party, or President, could have done would have made much, if any, difference to that.

However, it does no good to flip-flop policies every few years in the hope that someone will arrive at a quick-fix. There is no quick-fix. As long as a particular theory of economics holds sway - as it does in both the Democrat and Republican economic policies - then the only way out of this mess is over the long-haul and with still considerable pain and belt-tightening.

So stop belly-aching (not directed at you personally, Spid3r) and start showing you want your country to be well again.

[WoIverine]

Perhaps it is too little, too late. Perhaps there is a bit of truth in the words of those who suggest the Repubs will do anything to sabotage a Democrat Govt, even if it costs the country.

It is also amusing to hear those who castigated Obama-supporters for "believing him to be the Messiah", are now the ones complaining because he is not the Messiah.

Obama inherited a truly awful economy. There is no way it would ever recover quickly and truthfully I do not think it is as bad now as it could have been. It is bad, I make no bones about that, but it was always going to be. Nothing any party, or President, could have done would have made much, if any, difference to that.

However, it does no good to flip-flop policies every few years in the hope that someone will arrive at a quick-fix. There is no quick-fix. As long as a particular theory of economics holds sway - as it does in both the Democrat and Republican economic policies - then the only way out of this mess is over the long-haul and with still considerable pain and belt-tightening.

So stop belly-aching (not directed at you personally, Spid3r) and start showing you want your country to be well again.

Ignore me, I'm just frustrated with both of the majority parties, sorry. I have lost faith in both. Common sense seems to be drowning in greed and self interest these days.

[Leonardo]

Ignore me, I'm just frustrated with both of the majority parties, sorry. I have lost faith in both. Common sense seems to be drowning in greed and self interest these days.

I understand the frustration - we're no better off on this side of the pond, believe me. But, stiff upper lip and carry on, what...and all that malarkey. The only way out of this situation is to work our way out of it - not expect some 'magic get-better-bill' to make everything better. Of course, some actions (bills, etc) by our respective county's representative govts may help - but in the end it's down to the people. If the Corporations are making it difficult for the people, then the people have the power to destroy the Corporations - if they have the will to do so.

And I replied to your post simply because it was the last before I posted. I had read all the previous and my reply was to all - not just you.

[ninjadude]

But both are using almost the same motivation, anger/fear at unfairness against their demographic.

No. One is an AstroTurf organization propped up by foxnews and the republican party. The other is grass roots and not affiliated with anyone.

[WoIverine]

Both controlled by special *corporate* interests and groups. Hence fail at every angle.

[F3SS]

No. One is an AstroTurf organization propped up by foxnews and the republican party. The other is grass roots and not affiliated with anyone.

You're so full of it. Everything the tea party is the OWSers claim to be and mostly aren't and everything the tea party is falsely accused of the OWSers are guilty of. At least the tea party has a clear set of objectives, reasonable ones at that. On the other hand, I'm going to guess that 95% of the "99%" protesting don't know what they want or why they're there, even the ones who are being paid to be there. All I hear is demands without solutions. As far as being propped up the OWSers have the full backing of the POTUS and all his cohorts. Sometimes I wonder if you're a paid liberal Internet troll because your talking points are always so unoriginal, played out and baseless.

[Aus Der Box Skeptisch]

You're so full of it. Everything the tea party is the OWSers claim to be and mostly aren't and everything the tea party is falsely accused of the OWSers are guilty of. At least the tea party has a clear set of objectives, reasonable ones at that. On the other hand, I'm going to guess that 95% of the "99%" protesting don't know what they want or why they're there, even the ones who are being paid to be there. All I hear is demands without solutions. As far as being propped up the OWSers have the full backing of the POTUS and all his cohorts. Sometimes I wonder if you're a paid liberal Internet troll because your talking points are always so unoriginal, played out and baseless.

If you think ninja is a paid liberal internet troll what does that make you!!!!!!

[F3SS]

If you think ninja is a paid liberal internet troll what does that make you!!!!!!

The opposite.

Like I said, his arguments are usually short, thoughtless and overplayed and so far to the left he can never see the middle of the road I'd like to meet him at. I'm not far right, but not far from it. I'm fiscally conservative and definitely on the right of foreign policy, education, the constitution and regulation. I have mixed views on religion and I'm only for abortion when it comes to unwarranted pregnancies. Otherwise don't get knocked up or knock someone up, and if you do...deal with it.

Ninja on the other hand reminds me more of a Jeneane Garafolo. He means well but never see's the bigger picture and probably never will.

PS

I'm not paid and I should've said he reminds me of one

Edited October 22, 2011 by Is it for real