53 Percent Vs the 99 Percent

[Damrod]

The fact that students and children are included...well I'm not going to argue because I cannot recall my sources...it came out a couple of months ago when the number smear started. If I recall correctly (and this is a big if) the ones trying to use it as a weapon of justification pulled those numbers out of the census...so when they say that 53% are not paying taxes...well that's 53% of the entire population...stay at home parents, students, etc....it is not based on the percentage of citizens that are working. I will digress as I do not have the source...but as long as the message gets around that the number is incorrect...that is good enough.

As far as the people working for cash and not getting a 1099 or reported income...well...I cannot argue nor do I have any numbers about how prevalent that is. It is very possible and in this day and age to ask anyone to "be honest" for the sake of it being "the right thing to do"...well...good luck with that. Welcome to the "Age of ME"...no one cares as long as they get theirs.

[Rafterman]

Again people are using numbers cooked up by the MSM and extremist views. The percentages of how many people pay taxes are skewed and warped. They include students, children and even infants...so yes...as a part of the "entire" population...the numbers look big...but it is a lie. Everyone that has a job above poverty level pays taxes...someone really needs to kill this smokescreen of lies and deceit they are using to hide the truth...it is being used as a distraction technique to get people to look away from those who should be paying more and are not.

Yes, everyone pays taxes in one form or another (and if folks actually figured out how much, the marches would move from Wall Street to the State Houses and Washington, but that's another matter).

But the issue is FEDERAL INCOME TAXES. 47% of adult working aged Americans pay none. In fact, many of those even get a REFUND on taxes they didn't pay in the first place. Remember the uproar when we got our $600 checks a few years back and the folks who didn't even pay taxes wanted to know where their checks were?

But here's the scary thing - what happens when that 47% becomes 51% or 55%. Who do you think they're going to vote for?

[Corp]

There's a lot of people who use those tax refunds to help make ends meet.

[conspiracybeliever]

news flash! not every one can afford health insurance!

Don't bother! He thinks he's one of those geniuses that did everything perfectly and that's why he is in such good shape.

[_Only]

Don't bother! He thinks he's one of those geniuses that did everything perfectly and that's why he is in such good shape.

Where do you get that insulting assumption? Not by what he wrote, I'm sure.

[SilverCougar]

Where do you get that insulting assumption? Not by what he wrote, I'm sure.

I believe she meant It's for real since that's who was quoted by the guy she quoted.

[conspiracybeliever]

Where do you get that insulting assumption? Not by what he wrote, I'm sure.

I get it from reading what he writes on this forum.

[Order66]

"We are the 99 percent" = "I speak for everyone"

So rest easy, this guy is speaking on your behalf:

Edited October 13, 2011 by Halloween78

[conspiracybeliever]

I believe she meant It's for real since that's who was quoted by the guy she quoted.

That is what I meant.

[_Only]

I get it from reading what he writes on this forum.

Ah, ad hominem.

And I know who you meant.

[Trog]

I hope that's nothing you'd like to see happen?

the shear disgusting, bold faced, petrifying, stupidity of your post leaves me at a loss for words.

If you don't like the current system you have the power to change it , the people have the ultimate say , if the system needs fixing the American voting public have the power to fix it , but , if you keep voting the wrong government in then you'll keep getting the same results .....

I do understand that those with the money would never like to see a government in power that would restrict their ability to rip the working class off .... The ethos in your country is ''Hustle'' , the only problem is , some are better at it than others and so a large percentage of working people will always be struggling to stay ahead of the debt collector .

As I remember France voted in a Socialist Government in recent times and then voted them out again (I haven't researched that, so could be wrong) However , the theory is the same , if the current system is leaving too many people behind the people have the power to fix it , if they want to stand up for their rights .

[Corp]

The argument that comes up against the suggestion of using elections to change the system is that all politicans are bought and paid for...expect for Ron Paul of course.

[F3SS]

news flash! not every one can afford health insurance!

Well done Sherlock. I'm one of them.

[F3SS]

Don't bother! He thinks he's one of those geniuses that did everything perfectly and that's why he is in such good shape.

You don't know what kind of shape I'm in. I've only stated to you that I appreciate the value of hard work and earning your own way in life.

[Michelle]

Well done Sherlock. I'm one of them.

But, but...we have our own business...we have it made.

We had to let our health insurance lapse a few months ago. We could pay my doctor bills easier without paying $1,200 a month in insurance with a $5,000 deductible.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Michelle

[ninjadude]

Well, 47% are not too poor to pay federal income tax. Many just choose to not pay it. Which you can argue that federal income tax is unconstitutional anyway. But to say they are all too poor to pay it isn't being accurate.

Do you have a source for that? or just a conservative talking point. You cannot argue income tax in unconstitutional in reality. Apparently you don't realize just how many poor there are in this country.

[rashore]

There are so many different things that need to be addressed in our system in general.

Yep, there's lots of folks that pay their taxes fair and square.. And there's folks that don't pay at all or less than their fair share, some because they don't/can't work, some because they ignore it, and some because they got great tax accountants and great loopholes.

Yep, there's folks that get their tax dollars back in services fairly, and there's those that abuse the system too, and get monies when they don't strictly need them, like instances of breeding for welfare, or collecting foodstamps when they could afford to do otherwise. And sometimes people pay taxes without utilizing tax services too, like people that pay taxes that go to public schooling though they send their kids to private school.

Healthcare, what a whopper. There's so many problems with that whole issue all around, it could take days of typing and not cover it all. At one time, I worked in the healthcare system, and have seen many gross things on all sides of the fences. I worked for an accreditation agency, and saw many gross malpractice suits. And I have family that works in medicine, and have heard about gross imbalances there too.

Personally, I have seen birth control cited as a pleasure drug, while get it up pills cited as medical necessity. Medicaid patients sporting a seventy five dollar pedicure while claiming to be too poor to pay the one dollar copay for their toenail that looked fine six hours before the pedicure and demanded emergency service at the clinic instead of the emergency room because they know clinic is more coverable. Multi-state major medical insurance scams that under confidentiality contracts I can't say anything more. Cost and payment schedules that differ between types of insurance vs self pays- again confidentiality agreements. Lawsuits that the patient signed off on as understanding a not 100% success rate, and suing because their surgery was not 100% and they did not follow doctors orders- not because they had no choice but to do their job, but because they chose to keep doing the thing that caused the surgery to be chosen to begin with, like carpal tunneling and returning to work too soon, or lap band and continuing the same eating habits.

And there's the whole schnookered crowd. Everything fair, but stupid enough to not read the fine print or to buy into society norms instead of personal capabilities and needs.

Of all of this crap, it's distressing to me that everyone wants to blame anyone else, and often is stating a whole group at fault, or a whole group as a magic bullet to fix it. I have found in knowing a lot of people that no one is of such a demographic that they can clam exclusivity to all right or all wrong. I've also found it's easy to call whine-one-one, but hard to do anything else.

[_Only]

Do you have a source for that? or just a conservative talking point. You cannot argue income tax is unconstitutional in reality. Apparently you don't realize just how many poor there are in this country.

Look at the article I posted a bit farther down in the thread. And I do realize how many poor are in this country, being one of them. And my point that it could be argued that income tax payment is unconstitutional was referring to when the Constitution was written. The later added 16th amendment in 1913 changed this.

I don't know if you were trying to label me as a "Conservative" or not, but I have no affiliation to any "side", and I wish that others also didn't. Politics would be a whole different ballgame.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Jerry Only

[F3SS]

I have never said I thought you had it made.

You imply it constantly.

]

You and its for real are the ones that are always talking like you think you have it made and have all the answers.

Well we have suggestions at the least. All you have is complaints, sob stories and personal attacks.

]

What is that moron your husband?

Sorry shoplifter, we never met.

Do you have a source for that? or just a conservative talking point. You cannot argue income tax in unconstitutional in reality. Apparently you don't realize just how many poor there are in this country.

:lol: :lol: :lol: You lecturing about talking points. Now that's RICH! :lol:

Edited October 14, 2011 by Is it for real

[MissMelsWell]

Ten years ago, I bought a house I didn't particularly like, that was WELL below my means at the time. I'll be honest, back then, I was making 130K a year working contract at software companies. I COULD have afforded a half million dollar house back then. But, I was offered my current home at a rock bottom price of 150K (it was the best real estate deal in my area that year according to the MLS statistics) I continued to be make that awesome wage (although granted is VERY expensive to live where I live, so it's not as awesome as it might sound to some people in other places) ... and I lived in my old, TINY, house, I donated to a lot of charities, I purchased some nice things but nothing outrageous, but basically sayed out of debt, paid for some college for my kid and did a little leisure traveling. In 2008, I lost my job. I didn't collect unemployment during that time, living primarily off my savings for over a year. I had one HELL of a time finding a new job. When I finally did, I ended up taking a job at 70% LESS than what I was making before. Now, I struggle. I have my mortgage, my utilities, my vehicle, basic living expenses, and there's really nothing left over. I'm mad to be honest. But, at the same time, I"m grateful I had the forsight to NOT get in over my head. I can still afford my mortgage, but can't really afford the roof I need. Luckily I'm NOT one of the ones underwater, and when I decided to buy this house, that was my first thought always "no matter what happens, I'll NEVER be underwater in this house" and I was right. BUT, I haven't turned the gas on in the house to heat it in 3 years. I use a single space heater. It's uncomfortable but affordable. I make less now than I did in 1991.

2011 will be the first year I've worked a full year since 2008. I'll have to pay taxes at the end of the year. Not sure where the money is going to come from. Fun.

I'm selling my house I guess. Which is ok... I'll buy a smaller condo at some point (actually within 2 years or I'll pay capital gains), but I'm going to be apartment-ville for a while until I can work my way back up the ladder to a more decent wage. I'm 44 and have been working consistently full-time since I was 16. I shouldn't need to start at the bottom again, but I had to. It can happen to you too. Always remember that.

[F3SS]

No actually I have personal experiences that I've shared that you choose not to believe because you are in your nice safe space at the moment and like to think you are there because you're smart and made all the right choices. It should be pretty clear to anyone reading what you write on these boards that isn't the case.

No I believe you even though you rarely make sense when you try to tell a story. The reason we butt heads so much is because of the diifference between who we choose to blame for what happens in our lives. You blame the world, I blame myself. You answer with spinning words and personal attacks, I answer with reason and solutions.

[F3SS]

Your false accusations are getting tiresome.

It's hopeless Michelle, she's obsessed with me

[F3SS]

BTW, conspiracy, post #41 on this thread. You were the first to issue yet another personal attack on me. And the first time we met here on another thread you called me a moron I think 9 or 10 times. Can't you offer an intelligent thought without being so angry about it?

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

Keep it civil please.

Thank you.

[FurthurBB]

I definately don't think we need to just End government programs, and I don't think these 53% people want that either. They just want better management of the resources that are given out to the people.

I definately think that we should try to confront poverty, but the question is how? Without chasing off jobs overseas, or bankrupting buisnesses, or giving a free pass on bad small business loans. How can you get the donut store down the street to pay their 8 workers $30,000 a year, rather then $15,000 and able to absorb that $120,000 of more expenses without raising prices, cutting the buisinesses net, or putting the shop out of business. Sure, people think that it can just come out of the Net Profits, but small buisiness (Who employ like 66% of Americans, right?) are usually just squeeking by.

In brief... wages can not be raised without massive inflation, which would result in wages being worth less. And thus the cycle repeats.

Well, the EIC that everyone so famously complains about is actually much better than raising minimum wage or giving welfare because it gives back to the economy more than it takes and actually pulls people out of poverty. That is why when a minimum wage increase is talked about it usually ends in a compromise to raise EIC.