Ousted dictator Moammar Gadhafi is dead,

[Smithius]

I'm sure he's just chillin' in Venezuela.

[Corp]

A DNA document in my hand, done by a country other than the USA, and a dead body to personally view.

And there you have it.

I will not accept a lie. And when lies are known to come from a specific group of people, like the USA government, it is easy to consider that all is a lie coming from that group of people.

Did Q have a double like Saddam had about 6 of them?

While his doubles were mentioned various times while searching for Saddam, there was no mention of all of his doubles following Saddam's arrest. Yet a wife of Saddam said the hanged man was not her spouse.

Hey, you lie to people, you then suffer the consequences. Uncle Sam has not earned the honor of exception on this.

Well for that you'd need to book a flight out to Libya since I doubt they're going to bring the body to you. And as Erix has said it was the new Libyan government who has the body and will likely be doing the tests to see if they really have Gaddafi. The US isn't involved at all at this point. So whatever distrust you have for the American government really shouldn't be a factor.

[ExpandMyMind]

Anyway, it was France and the UK that seemed to be the main ones behind it;

You believe that?

Edit to take out the part that would have antagonised American Nationalists...

Edited October 20, 2011 by expandmymind

[regeneratia]

Well for that you'd need to book a flight out to Libya since I doubt they're going to bring the body to you. And as Erix has said it was the new Libyan government who has the body and will likely be doing the tests to see if they really have Gaddafi. The US isn't involved at all at this point. So whatever distrust you have for the American government really shouldn't be a factor.

IF and only IF we are being told the truth. But I seriously doubt all things these days that come from mainstream media. Everything has a spin. Even the bible has spin. So hey, loosing the need to KNOW on this issue, I sit on the fence until I am sure I am getting the truth.

All I know is that the media in this world wants me to think G is dead. That is about it.

Edited October 20, 2011 by regeneratia

[Corp]

It's rather clear the France and Britain were the main players behind intervention in Libya. They were the first to push for action while the US dragged their feet. Plus France flew more combat missions by far. Remember seeing the stats once (don't have them handy) and it looked like France did more combat flights than all the other NATO members combinded.

EDIT: regeneratia how will you be sure you're getting the truth when you think all sources of information are lies?

Edited October 20, 2011 by Corp

[regeneratia]

It's rather clear the France and Britain were the main players behind intervention in Libya. They were the first to push for action while the US dragged their feet. Plus France flew more combat missions by far. Remember seeing the stats once (don't have them handy) and it looked like France did more combat flights than all the other NATO members combinded.

EDIT: regeneratia how will you be sure you're getting the truth when you think all sources of information are lies?

Corp, I will let go of the need to get the truth on this, and will remain doubtful about what is in the media.

There is an end in this world to certainty, as Ilya Prigogine contends. Or almost. What I am certain of is that someone, some group wants us to believe G is dead.

Answer to your bottom quote. War is far, far uglier than a deformed or diminished patriotism. I cannot be patriotic anymore to the present conditions of this country. I cannot do it, when one considers just how horrible this country has been to other countries and people (small pox-laden blankets to peoples who lack immunity to the disease, genocide, the murdering of generations of men, and so on) in it's history. I expect and demand better from our USA government from here on out. I am patriotic to what this country SHOULD be and what is SAID it once was (but lied to us), but not what it is today, yesterday and for the past 200 years.

Edited October 20, 2011 by regeneratia

[Mr.United_Nations]

Corp, I will let go of the need to get the truth on this, and will remain doubtful about what is in the media.

There is an end in this world to certainty, as Ilya Prigogine contends. Or almost. What I am certain of is that someone, some group wants us to believe G is dead.

Answer to your bottom quote. War is far, far uglier than a deformed or diminished patriotism. I cannot be patriotic anymore to the present conditions of this country. I cannot do it, when one considers just how horrible this country has been to other countries and people (small pox-laden blankets to peoples who lack immunity to the disease, genocide, the murdering of generations of men, and so on) in it's history. I expect and demand better from our USA government from here on out. I am patriotic to what this country SHOULD be and what is SAID it once was (but lied to us), but not what it is today, yesterday and for the past 200 years.

Is that so? so why are you American?

[regeneratia]

Is that so? so why are you American?

Why do you ask?

You think I should be blindly patriotic (like most public patriotism is these days) and wave the flag tho' it no longer represents the meaning it once did, or the meaning I was told it did?

I was born here. I was educated here. I sing the national anthem here (omitting the god part). I am taxed here. I employ here. I will die here.

And I will not leave. I will demand CHANGE in this country. I love it more than the general sheeple. I expect better behavior from it. I will demand better behavior from our long-molesting, loaded liar Uncle Sam.

Edited October 20, 2011 by regeneratia

[MichaelW]

Finally. He got what he deserved.

[MichaelW]

You believe that?

Edit to take out the part that would have antagonised American Nationalists...

Why must we have to explain the basics to you?

[ExpandMyMind]

Why must we have to explain the basics to you?

Michael, I fail to see where you get your false sense of confidence from when replying to or debating with with me. I have ripped you apart, countless times, yet you always address me as though you hold some sort of superior position. In fact, for over a year now, all you have actually done when replying to me, is use ad hominen put downs (similar to the one quoted above), and snide, childish remarks.

I mean, seriously, do you actually NEED me to look out all the threads where, quite honestly, I have embarrassed you?

Maybe you just like to take advantage of the fact that, these days, I really can't be bothered posting and becoming bogged down in pointless debates with people who cannot recognise facts when presented with them, and that is why you continuously chime in with your, almost trademark, feeble little quip.

If you have anything to say to me, say it in a Personal Message. Otherwise, shurrup. Please don't derail or taint yet another thread with your silly, teenage crap.

Edited October 21, 2011 by expandmymind

[Q24]

Did Q have a double like Saddam had about 6 of them?

I never had a double

The U.S. was never really the driving force behind Operation- did it ever have a name? Operation Topple Gahdaffi? Anyway, it was France and the UK that seemed to be the main ones behind it; although I bet if he'd still been in the big chair, GW would've cheerfully claimed all the credit.

You might want to check that.

The U.S. code name for the initial military intervention was Operation Odyssey Dawn. The U.S. were running the show until military control was passed to NATO under Operation Unified Protector. The UK and France also have their own code names for operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Odyssey_Dawn

For an idea of participation levels: -

And they call it a ‘civil war’

A story in pictures (warning: contains graphic image)…

[ExpandMyMind]

Cheers, Q.

In my original reply to 747 (before I edited the post), I stated that this was another U.S. venture (their 7th recognised battlefront in fact... Well, 7th at the time - there are now 8 with Uganda), and that France and Britain were little more than poster children, used to avoid yet more attention being thrown on the warmongers in the White House - just your average NATO venture. But I deleted it as there are quite a few sensitive U.S. nationalists kicking about.

[The Unseen]

it is a bad decade for dictators,yee ha.

[Space Commander Travis]

Also, i must suggest, a few who, while suspicious of most sabre rattling from Washington, are not altogether sorry to see the back of this freaky little creep. (Assuming that it was him, of course). I think one big difference with the demise of Bin L (assuming that it was, etc) was that the demise of BL made absolutely no difference to anything, and that's even supposing that he was anything like the Evil Mastermind he was painted. There's no doubt, however, that Gadaffi was a supporter of terrorism as well as a freaky little creep, and so therefore I am by no means sorry to see the end of the little wierdo.

[Space Commander Travis]

I never had a double

You might want to check that.

The U.S. code name for the initial military intervention was Operation Odyssey Dawn. The U.S. were running the show until military control was passed to NATO under Operation Unified Protector. The UK and France also have their own code names for operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Odyssey_Dawn

For an idea of participation levels: -

And they call it a ‘civil war’

Compared with the relative defence budgets, that would suggest that the UK's participation, particularly, was proportionately enormously more than the US.

Edited October 21, 2011 by 747400

[Keosen]

The bad thing is that they killed him too quickly nearly 50years of dictatorship can't really payed off by a speeding bullet.

[Q24]

Cheers, Q.

In my original reply to 747 (before I edited the post), I stated that this was another U.S. venture (their 7th recognised battlefront in fact... Well, 7th at the time - there are now 8 with Uganda), and that France and Britain were little more than poster children, used to avoid yet more attention being thrown on the warmongers in the White House - just your average NATO venture. But I deleted it as there are quite a few sensitive U.S. nationalists kicking about.

Ah I did wonder what you had written before the edit.

I’m not sure France and the U.K. are much better than the U.S. in some cases, or just more restrained as they can’t act alone. There was a man on the news yesterday talking about Scottish independence and having their own military. Not trying to get rid of you or anything, but I thought it sounded a good idea as I couldn’t see an independent Scottish military being so quick to join U.S./NATO operations.

Compared with the relative defence budgets, that would suggest that the UK's participation, particularly, was proportionately enormously more than the US.

Proportionate to their own defense budget, the U.K. has spent more.

Proportionate to total funding of the war, the U.S. has spent more.

I’m not sure how much the first statement means as U.K. funding for war operations comes mostly from a ‘special reserve’ outside of the normal defence budget. I don’t know what it’s called in the U.S. but the defense budget cannot be absorbing the cost; there must be some similar reserve (or are they just building debt?).

The further problem with judging participation relative to defense budgets… the U.S. could spend ten times more on a war than the U.K. and… we could still say the latter has participated more. It may not quite be, “lies, damned lies, and statistics” but it perhaps does distort the real picture of where funding is coming from.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Q24

[skookum]

Loads of people moaning about his death now in the UK. They seem to think if they could have shipped him to the Hague he was going to confess all about Lockerbie, PC Fletchers killing and the amount of arms he supplied the the IRA.

Do they really think after 42 years of dictatorship and supporting terrorism he was going to be desperate to clear his conscience?

[Corp]

Corp, I will let go of the need to get the truth on this, and will remain doubtful about what is in the media.

There is an end in this world to certainty, as Ilya Prigogine contends. Or almost. What I am certain of is that someone, some group wants us to believe G is dead.

Answer to your bottom quote. War is far, far uglier than a deformed or diminished patriotism. I cannot be patriotic anymore to the present conditions of this country. I cannot do it, when one considers just how horrible this country has been to other countries and people (small pox-laden blankets to peoples who lack immunity to the disease, genocide, the murdering of generations of men, and so on) in it's history. I expect and demand better from our USA government from here on out. I am patriotic to what this country SHOULD be and what is SAID it once was (but lied to us), but not what it is today, yesterday and for the past 200 years.

I'm sure many want us to believe Gadhafi is dead...because he's actually dead. I must say that refusing to believe anything you don't personal see and hear is a rather grim outlook on life.

As for the quote in my sig it's not about blind patriotism. It's about how sometimes war is the right and just action to take. So for example say China woke up today and decided to annex the hell out of the US. Would you help fight the invasion or would you lay down and accept occupation?

Compared with the relative defence budgets, that would suggest that the UK's participation, particularly, was proportionately enormously more than the US.

But that wouldn't fit in with the whole "US is behind everything and is evil" theme that some seem to like so much.

[Knight Of Shadows]

believe or not believe that's personal choice

what's important is lybia got rid of the person who was responsable for many deaths

and many children living without their parents

the attacks on medias and accusing it of lies it's just the play of this century

a game proved false

it's best to keep it simple now they can carry on with their lives

that's been stole from them by that pshyco

[conspiracybeliever]

Now we just have to do something about the psychos stealing our lives and leaving children without parents in our country. Then we'll be all set.

[regeneratia]

I thought this was interesting!

Quoting yahoo news from this short-lasting link: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/gadhafi-looks-conscious-until-end-155524820.html

"The Washington Post reports Friday that when investigators performed DNA testing on Gadhafi's body, they learned that the vainglorious strongman was wearing a wig. Interim Prime Minster Mahmoud Jibril told the Post that an autopsy team took samples of Gadhafi's blood, saliva and hair--and soon discovered that the hair did not actually belong to the former dictator. Gadhafi's body is now at a mosque outside of Sirte."

[Indiogene]

Gaddafi paid for his crimes against Libya, his people and humanity...he's the mastermind behind Pan-Am over Lockerbie, Scotland and the Discotheque bombing in (West) Berlin. Shame on him, the false principles of Islamic socialism he preached and the oppression his rule had left behind on the country. He proven himself to be a danger to himself and others, as well suffered from a schizoid personality disorder, and flip-flopping on trusting the West, his claims to sympathy then expel Palestinians and on women's rights he didn't really support: but hired an all-female bodyguard gang to protect him. Qaddafi (spelled with a "Q" or "G") was the same man who allowed his adopted daughter die in the 1986 NATO bombing on his compound, because he didn't want to risk his life...like any father normally would do the same (I know I would risk my life to save my family) and have she lived: Qaddafi could furthermore have a "good" reputation the world doesn't want to see.

[MichaelW]

Michael, I fail to see where you get your false sense of confidence from when replying to or debating with with me. I have ripped you apart, countless times, yet you always address me as though you hold some sort of superior position. In fact, for over a year now, all you have actually done when replying to me, is use ad hominen put downs (similar to the one quoted above), and snide, childish remarks.

Just getting down to your level. And as I recall, your arrogance is uneeded, since you haven't "destroyed" anything of mine.

I mean, seriously, do you actually NEED me to look out all the threads where, quite honestly, I have embarrassed you?

I enjoy annoying people like you. That and the fact that whatever you end up posting will almost undoubtedly be false.

Maybe you just like to take advantage of the fact that, these days, I really can't be bothered posting and becoming bogged down in pointless debates with people who cannot recognise facts when presented with them, and that is why you continuously chime in with your, almost trademark, feeble little quip.

I'll recognise facts when I see them and not the usual BS.

If you have anything to say to me, say it in a Personal Message. Otherwise, shurrup. Please don't derail or taint yet another thread with your silly, teenage crap.

If you don't like it, leave. No point trying to tell me to be quiet because I don't have the same opinion. If you are stupid enough to believe that this was a CIA hit or something, that is your perogative. But don't cry and whinge when someone calls you up on it, simple.

Now, dry those tears and let's get back to business.