Still Waters Posted October 23, 2011 #1 Share Posted October 23, 2011 European Union chiefs are drawing up plans for a single “Treasury” to oversee tax and spending across the 17 eurozone nations. The proposal, put forward by Herman Van Rompuy, the European Council president, would be the clearest sign yet of a new “United States of Europe” — with Britain left on the sidelines. The plan comes as European governments desperately trying to save the euro from collapse last night faced a new bombshell, with sources at the International Monetary Fund saying it would not pay for a second Greek bail-out. It was also disclosed last night that British businesses are turning their back on Brussels regulations to give temporary workers full employment rights, with supermarket chain Tesco leading the charge. Meanwhile, David Cameron is attempting to face down a rebellion tomorrow by Tory MPs in a vote over staging a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU. Read more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted October 23, 2011 #2 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Let's see if we can spot any bias in that story at all, shall we ... No, can't find any. Good to see Tesco, that beloved fighter for the little person, standing up for Workers' Rights against the Evil Empire, isn't it. (Or indeed, 'leading the charge' like St. George.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted October 23, 2011 #3 Share Posted October 23, 2011 (edited) Let's see if we can spot any bias in that story at all, shall we ... No, can't find any. Good to see Tesco, that beloved fighter for the little person, standing up for Workers' Rights against the Evil Empire, isn't it. (Or indeed, 'leading the charge' like St. George.) So you'll be quite glad to have your tax rate contributions decided by an unelected quango in another country presumably. (assuming you pay tax) Edited October 23, 2011 by itsnotoutthere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
make me believe Posted October 24, 2011 #4 Share Posted October 24, 2011 More power transferred to an 'un-elected elite' in Brussels... Perfect! The next 10 years will be interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted October 24, 2011 #5 Share Posted October 24, 2011 So you'll be quite glad to have your tax rate contributions decided by an unelected quango in another country presumably. (assuming you pay tax) p.s. A quango that has for the past 20 years failed to have it's accounts audited & signed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted October 24, 2011 #6 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Tonight, 68% of the electorate will finally realise that we live in a dictatorship. The other 32% will be glued to the X Factor. 100% of us are ****ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted October 25, 2011 #7 Share Posted October 25, 2011 and just to think the EU is now costing Britain £45 million a day. regardless of the political stance, the people of this nation want OUT. its time to seize the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted October 25, 2011 #8 Share Posted October 25, 2011 So you'll be quite glad to have your tax rate contributions decided by an unelected quango in another country presumably. (assuming you pay tax) Since when is the UK in the Eurozone? What we are seeing is the Europe of two speeds that nobody really wanted, those who have the Euro will integrate further into what will be the European Federation and those who don't will stay in the EU, where the European Federation will be the biggest country therein... you know, like the Swiss neutrality, they haver to obey all EU rules but because they don't want to join they have no say in what they are.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gash Gannet Posted October 25, 2011 #9 Share Posted October 25, 2011 It's more than obvious the majority of British are demanding a referendum on this subject so Mr Cameron should realise that actually, we are not here to serve him but the other way around..... It all seems more like a dictatorship at times and not the democratic state we are led to believe! The sooner we are out of the EU and away from their stupid laws and policies (human rights act for starters), the better!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatFenris Posted October 25, 2011 #10 Share Posted October 25, 2011 It's more than obvious the majority of British are demanding a referendum on this subject so Mr Cameron should realise that actually, we are not here to serve him but the other way around..... It all seems more like a dictatorship at times and not the democratic state we are led to believe! The sooner we are out of the EU and away from their stupid laws and policies (human rights act for starters), the better!!!!!! Might I inquire as to what is so horrible with it? However, I concur...The English should be allowed to vote whether or not to stay within the EU or not. Just to end the debate once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Dave Posted October 25, 2011 #11 Share Posted October 25, 2011 EU is falling apart, because of Greece, Italy, Portugal or Spain. Thou last three are doing good now, but Greece wants 252 million euros of another loan.So tell me my friends if you had a choice" kick or help " what would you do? I know i would kick it out of oblivion. Their nation is not working at all, and i mean entire nation is not working anything, only thing they do is rioting,meanwhile their politicians are trying to save a sinked boat... So yes soon there will be no EU at all...It's misstake to even go in.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted October 25, 2011 #12 Share Posted October 25, 2011 EU is falling apart, because of Greece, Italy, Portugal or Spain. Thou last three are doing good now, but Greece wants 252 million euros of another loan.So tell me my friends if you had a choice" kick or help " what would you do? I know i would kick it out of oblivion. Their nation is not working at all, and i mean entire nation is not working anything, only thing they do is rioting,meanwhile their politicians are trying to save a sinked boat... So yes soon there will be no EU at all...It's misstake to even go in.. Wishful thinking, but if you want out may I suggest voting for people who will lead you out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted October 25, 2011 #13 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Might I inquire as to what is so horrible with it? However, I concur...The English should be allowed to vote whether or not to stay within the EU or not. Just to end the debate once and for all. I agree with you, because the British have to be a part willingly, we cannot have a lex Britannia for the British and the rules for everybody else. Better out than stopping everybody else from creating the structures to integrate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2011 #14 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I don't think that many people realise that simply pulling out of the EU would likely effect the British economy by a substantial margin. Having reintroduced trade barriers would cut exports by a substantial margin. As for the EU collapsing. The last time a major trading block collapsed it led to a reduction in life expectancy of about 20yrs and a cut in productivity of 40%. Yes that was the Soviet Union. The collapse of the USA as a viable country looks as if it will probably have much the same outcome. Who will defend us from those preditory resource hungry Chinese with their strings attached inward investment. Be careful what you wish for because you might just get it Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted October 25, 2011 #15 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I don't think that many people realise that simply pulling out of the EU would likely effect the British economy by a substantial margin. Having reintroduced trade barriers would cut exports by a substantial margin. As for the EU collapsing. The last time a major trading block collapsed it led to a reduction in life expectancy of about 20yrs and a cut in productivity of 40%. Yes that was the Soviet Union. The collapse of the USA as a viable country looks as if it will probably have much the same outcome. Who will defend us from those preditory resource hungry Chinese with their strings attached inward investment. Be careful what you wish for because you might just get it Br Cornelius what is all this scaremongering about trade (and jobs) all the time its complete nonsense. the imports and exports will stay the same. companies are not going to stop importing or exporting because the UK have decided to have a relationship with the EU, the same terms/relationship countries such as America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Brazil etc... currently have with the EU. we'd simply gear our economy to suit our needs. that's the beauty of it all. no more eu regulation / directives - straight jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2011 #16 Share Posted October 26, 2011 what is all this scaremongering about trade (and jobs) all the time its complete nonsense. the imports and exports will stay the same. companies are not going to stop importing or exporting because the UK have decided to have a relationship with the EU, the same terms/relationship countries such as America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, Brazil etc... currently have with the EU. we'd simply gear our economy to suit our needs. that's the beauty of it all. no more eu regulation / directives - straight jacket. We have preferential trading status with the EU which means that our goods cost less in Europe than they do in the rest of the world. Since the majority of our goods are exported to Europe the re imposition of tariffs would make our goods substantially less competitive. Germany would be in a perfect position to soak up our market share and they have the capacity to do so. It would take years for us to regain our balance of trade, and meanwhile the ballooning budget deficit would continue to rise. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted October 26, 2011 #17 Share Posted October 26, 2011 We have preferential trading status with the EU which means that our goods cost less in Europe than they do in the rest of the world. Since the majority of our goods are exported to Europe the re imposition of tariffs would make our goods substantially less competitive. Germany would be in a perfect position to soak up our market share and they have the capacity to do so. It would take years for us to regain our balance of trade, and meanwhile the ballooning budget deficit would continue to rise. Br Cornelius There is a world out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatFenris Posted October 26, 2011 #18 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I agree with you, because the British have to be a part willingly, we cannot have a lex Britannia for the British and the rules for everybody else. Better out than stopping everybody else from creating the structures to integrate.. I am curious though, if the British vote to stay. Would that shut up the naysayers? Or is it the classical. "The Will of the People as Long as that Will is Mine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted October 26, 2011 #19 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I am curious though, if the British vote to stay. Would that shut up the naysayers? Or is it the classical. "The Will of the People as Long as that Will is Mine." What, as opposed to 'the British wish to get out, but are totally ignored'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatFenris Posted October 26, 2011 #20 Share Posted October 26, 2011 What, as opposed to 'the British wish to get out, but are totally ignored'. ...Yes, because that was totally my question.*snorts and rolls eyes* If the British want out, then they should be allowed too. Howeve,r if they want to stay. Would you and yours agree that it was the will of the people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted October 26, 2011 #21 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I am curious though, if the British vote to stay. Would that shut up the naysayers? Or is it the classical. "The Will of the People as Long as that Will is Mine." Great Britain itself would break up, Scotland has a vast majority in favor of remaining in the EU and a strong nationalistic tendency making it the tipping point for an independence push, which is probably why the Tories always squeal something about leaving but never do. Now, I am pretty sure that a majority in England would vote for leaving, not so sure about Northern Ireland (but my prediction is all Protestants in favor of leaving) and Wales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwhite Posted October 26, 2011 #22 Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) I don't think that many people realise that simply pulling out of the EU would likely effect the British economy by a substantial margin. Having reintroduced trade barriers would cut exports by a substantial margin. Ten years ago we were told that not adopting the euro would be diastrous for Britain. Instead, the euro was disastrous for those who DID adopt it. Britain needs to leave the EU and be a free, sovereign, independent nation once again. I want Britain to be one of the 87% of the countries which are outside the EU, not one of the 13% that are in it. Britain is an outward-looking, global nation. It needs to get out of the inward-looking EU. Edited October 26, 2011 by Blackwhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwhite Posted October 26, 2011 #23 Share Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) Scotland has a vast majority in favor of remaining in the EU Have you got any evidence for that? The reason why the Scottish National Party started doing so well back in the 70s and 80s was the argument that the Tories and Labour were selling out Scotland to the EU. Edited October 26, 2011 by Blackwhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2011 #24 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Ten years ago we were told that not adopting the euro would be diastrous for Britain. Instead, the euro was disastrous for those who DID adopt it. Britain needs to leave the EU and be a free, sovereign, independent nation once again. I want Britain to be one of the 87% of the countries which are outside the EU, not one of the 13% that are in it. Britain is an outward-looking, global nation. It needs to get out of the inward-looking EU. The sad reality is that Britain is fiscally in about the same boat as Ireland (marginally better by about €2000 per capita), so it hasn't done so well outside of the Eurozone. Stirling is a basket case currency as much as the Euro and the Dollar. Its because no-one thought to regulate borrowing in any meaningful way. However none of this changes the fact that the bulk of Britains exports go to Europe and if Britain pulled out of the EU they would have trade tariffs imposed. Do not imagine that Britain would retain special trading favours once it pulled out. This would lead to a loss of a sizable proportion of its export market. It is no small matter for those exporters to poach or find replacements and so industry would take a brutal knocking in the short to medium term at least. Let it not be imagined that this would be an opportunity for a bonfire of the regulations because most of British industry signs up to ISO standards which are anything as stringent as EU regulations. Stop abiding by the highest standards of compliance and another chunk of the export market would be closed to British exporters. You may imagine that the grass is greener on the other side, but I think you would find the reality somewhat less green. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatFenris Posted October 26, 2011 #25 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Great Britain itself would break up, Scotland has a vast majority in favor of remaining in the EU and a strong nationalistic tendency making it the tipping point for an independence push, which is probably why the Tories always squeal something about leaving but never do. Now, I am pretty sure that a majority in England would vote for leaving, not so sure about Northern Ireland (but my prediction is all Protestants in favor of leaving) and Wales. Interesting. I didn't know that, thanks QM. You learn something new every day*smiles* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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