New euro 'empire' plot by Brussels

[Guest]

Are you stark raving mad?

Britain would be far worse today had it joined the euro.

Ten years ago, you Eurobots were warning that Britain would suffer if it didn't join the euro and that Britain needed to join to prosper. What has actually happened is that the countries who have joined the euro are suffering as a result and the euro has turned out to be a complete and utter disaster.

We were right not to join the euro. Ireland should have kept out of it, too.

The pound is in a very similar state to the Euro. The UK economy is a basket case and heading for another dive. As I keep pointing out - this was all the UK's doing and nothing to do with the EURO. Having the UK within the EURO zone would have helped to stabilise it and stabilise the UK economy. As it is we will never know how it would have panned out and to say that the UK would have suffered is pure speculations.

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

The pound is in a very similar state to the Euro. The UK economy is a basket case and heading for another dive. As I keep pointing out - this was all the UK's doing and nothing to do with the EURO. Having the UK within the EURO zone would have helped to stabilise it and stabilise the UK economy. As it is we will never know how it would have panned out and to say that the UK would have suffered is pure speculations.

Br Cornelius

pound same as the euro, UK economy 'basket case', whose telling you all these lies, or are you making them up yourself. where is the thread on the Greek referendum am off there to have a good laugh.

Edited November 1, 2011 by stevewinn

[Guest]

i note how you keep using the word England. its funny how you keep calling me a little Englander yet throughout my posts i refer to my county as the UK. funny how i've been talking and promoting the idea of trading with the wider world, the commonwealth etc.. does that sound like a little englander. i think not. you display all the signs of desperation.

truth is the EU needs us more than we need them, that's why you've spent the the last 40'odd posts across two threads trying to convince us to stay. i say convince but more like shock scare tactics. You know if the UK leaves your EU dream is over as others will follow.

I keep saying England because it is the little Englanders who have the idea to leave the EU, and if they do they will leave alone with Scotland devolved, and Ireland and Wales likely to.

I well remember how Margaret refused to accept the structural funding which Britain was entitled to so that she maintained a tight control over the rowdy North of England (which would have been a net gainer overall), she got the UK's contribution reduced because she didn't want what the EU was offering - strong regional areas. It was a sorry example of politics winning over common sense.

It has been ever thus since.

I have something of an interest in the outcome since much of Irelands goods travel through the UK and so a UK withdrawal will have a direct effect on our economy. Also I am English by Birth and at some point I may be returning to Britain so I would like to see it in the best possible state.

It isn't edifying to see a country make a complete **** of itself, and I should know living under a crippled economy which was entirely down to domestic mismanagement. Still Ireland has still done very well out of her relationship with the EU, and will continue to be a net beneficiary in multiple ways.

Br Cornelius

[Guest]

pound same as the euro, UK economy 'basket case', whose telling you all these lies, or are you making them up yourself. where is the thread on the Greek referendum am off there to have a good laugh.

So you honestly think that the UK is in a Rosy economic state with no chance of re-entering recession within months. It has been flatlining for over a year now with the current team having not a single clue as to how to restart some growth. It is also crippled by a mountain of debt and no serious domestic industry to speak of, having expended almost all of its efforts in generating a financial gambling den in the city of London, and inflating a property bubble which has left most of its population in negative equity and the rest with no realistic prospect of ever been able to afford to own their own home. I call that a Basket case.

Nice work overall

Do you wonder why I left the rancid hole.

Br Cornelius

Edited November 1, 2011 by Guest

[questionmark]

pound same as the euro, UK economy 'basket case', whose telling you all these lies, or are you making them up yourself. where is the thread on the Greek referendum am off there to have a good laugh.

I am afraid your laugh will be short lived, latest figures indicate 7 out of 10 Greeks want to stay in the Euro.

[stevewinn]

So you honestly think that the UK is in a Rosy economic state with no chance of re-entering recession within months. It has been flatlining for over a year now with the current team having not a single clue as to how to restart some growth. It is also crippled by a mountain of debt and no serious domestic industry to speak of, having expended almost all of its efforts in generating a financial gambling den in the city of London, and inflating a property bubble which has left most of its population in negative equity and the rest with no realistic prospect of ever been able to afford to own their own home. I call that a Basket case. Nice work overall Do you wonder why I left the rancid hole.Br Cornelius

with that said highlighted above - with your true colours now nailed to the mast. we can in one swoop disregard everything you have said.- your use of the rancid hole to describe your own nation speaks volumes. it also highlights the state of desperation you are in.

when you decided to leave the UK for Ireland (EU). it was the only recorded instance in history of a rat swimming towards a sinking ship.

I am afraid your laugh will be short lived, latest figures indicate 7 out of 10 Greeks want to stay in the Euro.

i hope your not going on about the same thing you was in the other thread. were just 1009 people were surveyed.

[Guest]

with that said highlighted above - with your true colours now nailed to the mast. we can in one swoop disregard everything you have said.- your use of the rancid hole to describe your own nation speaks volumes. it also highlights the state of desperation you are in.

when you decided to leave the UK for Ireland (EU). it was the only recorded instance in history of a rat swimming towards a sinking ship.

i hope your not going on about the same thing you was in the other thread. were just 1009 people were surveyed.

Steve your own prejudices shine through.

I live in Ireland where I own my own property outright (2.5 acres of land with sheds), I have clean air, I am better off than I ever was in England and I have a lovely family who do not fear going out at night. I have retrained myself to degree level without been burdened with 20yrs worth of debt. Everything is very very rosy for me. Moving to Ireland was a distinct step up in the world.

I describe England as a rancid hole because that is my personal experience. I left at the tail end of the Thatcher period when I saw the trajectory which the country was set on. It has continued for the intervening period - getting progressively worse for many of the low paid citizens.

It is a reasoned and fair assessment of my native land. If it hurts your sense of national pride - to bad, try opening your eyes in the morning.

Its not big and clever to ignore the issues with your own nation.

Br Cornelius

Edited November 1, 2011 by Guest

[stevewinn]

Steve your own prejudices shine through.

I live in Ireland where I own my own property outright (2.5 acres of land with sheds), I have clean air, I am better off than I ever was in England and I have a lovely family who do not fear going out at night. Everything is very very rosy for me. Moving to Ireland was a distinct step up in the world.

I describe England as a rancid hole because that is my personal experience. I left at the tail end of the Thatcher period when I saw the trajectory which the country was set on. It has continued for the intervening period - getting progressively worse for many of the low paid citizens.

It is a reasoned and fair assessment of my native land. If it hurts your sense of national pride - to bad, try opening your eyes in the morning.

Its not big and clever to ignore the issues with your own nation.

Br Cornelius

what is this? this is your life. thought you'd turned into Michael Aspel for a second. this sort of reply doesn't wash with me. a man of many excuses you are. lets all do a runner when things get tough. yes that sorts problems out. no-wonder you like the EU. a failed system for a failed.................

[Guest]

what is this? this is your life. thought you'd turned into Michael Aspel for a second. this sort of reply doesn't wash with me. a man of many excuses you are. lets all do a runner when things get tough. yes that sorts problems out. no-wonder you like the EU. a failed system for a failed.................

So loyalty to a nation who showed no loyalty to its citizens is the right thing to do ??

Get a life Steve. I left because England was going down the tubes a long time ago and I wanted the best life possible for myself and my family.

That is the right thing to do.

As I said your a Little Englander who can't see past the back patting propaganda which England has been spewing out throughout its ignoble decline. Sad.

Br Cornelius

[stevewinn]

So loyalty to a nation who showed no loyalty to its citizens is the right thing to do ??

Get a life Steve. I left because England was going down the tubes a long time ago and I wanted the best life possible for myself and my family.

That is the right thing to do.

As I said your a Little Englander who can't see past the back patting propaganda which England has been spewing out throughout its ignoble decline. Sad.

Br Cornelius

its funny how you left because the UK in your view was going down the tubes yet you find yourself in the U-bend. how did that work out? for every example of you there are thousands upon thousands who have made a successful life here in the UK. People who found themselves in the same circumstances as yourself. at the same stage of life - you wasn't unique. But they had the attitude of head up ar$e down. they could've all move to a poor country and pretend they'd made a success of it. its the subconsciousness - the admittance of failure that forced your hand. the only lack of loyalty was you to-yourself. like i said you are a man of excuses.

[Guest]

Steve,

Maybe you should actually look at the reality of why your country is so messed up and why your Government never serves the interests of the common citizenary. Why Britian stayed out of the Eurozone and why there is a campaign to pull out of the EU. Its entirely to do with the fact that the EU wants to introduce effective controls on tax evasion and off shore accounts and speculative currency trading. Read and learn;

http://apps.facebook.com/theguardian/commentisfree/2011/oct/31/corporation-london-city-medieval

Now ask yourself who's best interests are your representatives serving.

I will not pursue your nationalist agenda - I am not a nationalist and never will be. Nationalism has always been the root of all conflicts and is a general scourge on the world. I have no loyalty to any national institution and never will. If you find that a failing, you will never come to understand that there are greater goods than your own Sovereign nation. As such there is no constructive point in discussing it further with you.

Let us not forget the reason why the British suggested forming the EU - to avoid it having to fight another European war.

Your more than welcome to your life of service to a mortgage. Have fun with that.

Br Cornelius

Edited November 1, 2011 by Guest

[acidhead]

I am afraid your laugh will be short lived, latest figures indicate 7 out of 10 Greeks want to stay in the Euro.

yeah, and those same polls are saying that 2/3 of greeks oppose the terms of this new bailout package too... the greek PM has some nerve allowing the people to decide for themselves(sarcasm)... direct democracy... i'm beginning to like the sound of it.... it worked here in B.C. this year when we had a referendum on trashing the cash grab provincial VAT tax that was laid down 2 years ago..... the people turned out and voted it out..... I'm sure the same will happen in Greece. The average person didn't rack up the debt yet the burden has been put on all of them to pay for it. It was a scam from the start. What seems too good to be true usually isn't and look what happened... it got out of control. The population deserves to decide - not some bureaucrats and other foreign politicians who are propping up a system that has become too-big ---so-let-it-fail.

[Guest]

yeah, and those same polls are saying that 2/3 of greeks oppose the terms of this new bailout package too... the greek PM has some nerve allowing the people to decide for themselves(sarcasm)... direct democracy... i'm beginning to like the sound of it.... it worked here in B.C. this year when we had a referendum on trashing the cash grab provincial VAT tax that was laid down 2 years ago..... the people turned out and voted it out..... I'm sure the same will happen in Greece. The average person didn't rack up the debt yet the burden has been put on all of them to pay for it. It was a scam from the start. What seems too good to be true usually isn't and look what happened... it got out of control. The population deserves to decide - not some bureaucrats and other foreign politicians who are propping up a system that has become too-big ---so-let-it-fail.

Indeed you point up the systemic problems of all the Monetary systems. A giant ponzy scheme ready to crash around our ears. However at this moment in history - pointing fingers is hardly very constructive.

Br Cornelius

[BackFromTheDead]

Well said Br Cornelius, I left sunny UK 6 years ago to live in Madrid (Thats in Spain , Steve). My daughter (now 14yrs old) and wife love it here, I am a consulting Engineer so I can live anywhere in the world and chose Spain. Have just moved (this week!!) to the Med coast and life is very rosy indeed.

I left uk for the same reasons, it was turning into a s*** hole that I did not want my daughter to be sucked into. I own properties and land here that would be impossible to own in UK, and I go out at nights without fearing for my life.... nuff said!

Whatever Greece decides, one thing that stands out is that it will bea democratic decision - when was the last time that the UK exercised democracy???

Edited November 1, 2011 by BackFromTheDead

[itsnotoutthere]

Hang on a minute, that wasn't in the plans. Greece has decided to hold a referendum on whether to return to a simplistic existence herding goats and growing olives or propping up a Ponzi Euro with the sweat of their childrens labour.

The carefully crafted bailout package that nobody understands but would save the arses of Europes elite bankers and politicians has managed to last just four days. The man behind the curtain has been rumbled.

How come?

The people are going to be asked whether they are happy to be enslaved in EU debt and living for a pittance whilst prices for a coffee remain as high as Berlin or simply say "sod it. I'll make do like my parents did, this bloody growth bubble not helping me at all, innit"

The markets are not in panic. They are adjusting quite naturally to a hard dose of reality that some people might not get their money back because no matter how much can be extracted forcibly from German taxpayers, the Greeks will simply say "thanks, but no thanks". Capitalism is being allowed to work, banks who recklessly over invested because the Politicians told them the well would never run dry are losing their shirts and the Greeks have spotted that the EURO emperor is naked as the day it was born.

More please, Toto. Keep pulling at the curtains....

[Guest]

Hang on a minute, that wasn't in the plans. Greece has decided to hold a referendum on whether to return to a simplistic existence herding goats and growing olives or propping up a Ponzi Euro with the sweat of their childrens labour.

The carefully crafted bailout package that nobody understands but would save the arses of Europes elite bankers and politicians has managed to last just four days. The man behind the curtain has been rumbled.

How come?

The people are going to be asked whether they are happy to be enslaved in EU debt and living for a pittance whilst prices for a coffee remain as high as Berlin or simply say "sod it. I'll make do like my parents did, this bloody growth bubble not helping me at all, innit"

The markets are not in panic. They are adjusting quite naturally to a hard dose of reality that some people might not get their money back because no matter how much can be extracted forcibly from German taxpayers, the Greeks will simply say "thanks, but no thanks". Capitalism is being allowed to work, banks who recklessly over invested because the Politicians told them the well would never run dry are losing their shirts and the Greeks have spotted that the EURO emperor is naked as the day it was born.

More please, Toto. Keep pulling at the curtains....

As you said though - they can kiss goodbye to all those nice things they have come to expect. the basic fact is that Greece wasn't forced to ruin its economy - they did it all by themselves (clever b*******) and they will have to dig their own way out of it however they choose to achieve that. Its called been irresponsible and as a Brit you should be very familiar with that.

At this stage we can attempt to solve the problems together, or we can watch the western economies tumble one by one like dominoes. One thing is for certain the financial sharks will make a killing if we fail to act - and that's plain criminal.

Br Cornelius

Edited November 1, 2011 by Guest

[stevewinn]

Well said Br Cornelius, I left sunny UK 6 years ago to live in Madrid (Thats in Spain , Steve). My daughter (now 14yrs old) and wife love it here, I am a consulting Engineer so I can live anywhere in the world and chose Spain. Have just moved (this week!!) to the Med coast and life is very rosy indeed.

I left uk for the same reasons, it was turning into a s*** hole that I did not want my daughter to be sucked into. I own properties and land here that would be impossible to own in UK, and I go out at nights without fearing for my life.... nuff said!

Whatever Greece decides, one thing that stands out is that it will bea democratic decision - when was the last time that the UK exercised democracy???

Is that you keithiso? aka the mullet surely not. it has to be - exactly the same "this is your life" whats with the name change. i thought you'd fell off the perch - instead you was lurking under a new name. the three of you Br, Q and yourself. the ol'three europhiles the circle is now complete.

Edited November 1, 2011 by stevewinn

[stevewinn]

yeah, and those same polls are saying that 2/3 of greeks oppose the terms of this new bailout package too... the greek PM has some nerve allowing the people to decide for themselves(sarcasm)... direct democracy... i'm beginning to like the sound of it.... it worked here in B.C. this year when we had a referendum on trashing the cash grab provincial VAT tax that was laid down 2 years ago..... the people turned out and voted it out..... I'm sure the same will happen in Greece. The average person didn't rack up the debt yet the burden has been put on all of them to pay for it. It was a scam from the start. What seems too good to be true usually isn't and look what happened... it got out of control. The population deserves to decide - not some bureaucrats and other foreign politicians who are propping up a system that has become too-big ---so-let-it-fail.

It seems the dark forces within the EU are at play. its now looking likely the Greek prime minister will be forced from office and elections to take place before the referendum takes place. in short ruling out any referendum. surprise surprise. democracy EU style.

[Guest]

It seems the dark forces within the EU are at play. its now looking likely the Greek prime minister will be forced from office and elections to take place before the referendum takes place. in short ruling out any referendum. surprise surprise. democracy EU style.

If he is forced from office, it will be by the Greek parliament, and not the EU. Most people realise that if the Greeks refuse the bail out as offered they will cease to function as a country. No one will lend to such a profligate nation. Given Greeces history, the likely result will be a period of Military dictatorship. This is why the democratically elected representatives will force him out. It can be no coincidence that he also just sacked most of the military chiefs of staff, he must be sensing gunpowder at the gates.

Br Cornelius

[BackFromTheDead]

The referendum is actually a very clever strategy - it will be extremely difficult for EU HQ to ignore the democratic wishes of a nation as expressed in this vote.

The real question will be - what is the way forward? Effectively it will be a slap in the face to the Germany - France axis of power within the EU, and a rejection of economic determination by external forces.

Interesting times - Greece could leave the eurozone, but the debt would remain, it could turn to its historic status as the world's leading Merchant Marine force, and work outside of the EU completely.. it could insist on repatriating funds from the suspected tax evasion ploy of Swiss bank accounts holding un-taxed money. Nations cannot fail, except in terms of monetarism,because they are a geographical area, and not a fantastical construct.

The real problem is FIAT money, with credit being accrued at an impossible - to - sustain rate based on very limited real value.

IMO... scrap the banking system that allows money - without - value to exist, where Quantitative Easing (ie Printing of Money with absolutely no value) to exist solely for the aggrandisement of a few private benefactors,

[Blackwhite]

I describe England as a rancid hole because that is my personal experience.

Br Cornelius

Far better to live in a country which wisely chose to stay outside the euro than in a country which, due to its anti-Britishness, dropped the pound and adopted the disastrous euro, is now suffering as a result and is now nothing but an EU/IMF poodle.

At the moment, the future of England looks far rosier than the future of Ireland.

[None of the above]

I don't think that many people realise that simply pulling out of the EU would likely effect the British economy by a substantial margin. Having reintroduced trade barriers would cut exports by a substantial margin.

As for the EU collapsing. The last time a major trading block collapsed it led to a reduction in life expectancy of about 20yrs and a cut in productivity of 40%. Yes that was the Soviet Union. The collapse of the USA as a viable country looks as if it will probably have much the same outcome. Who will defend us from those preditory resource hungry Chinese with their strings attached inward investment.

Be careful what you wish for because you might just get it

Br Cornelius

You forget that you are dealing with people who would still be paying for 'pounds' of things with 'farthings and schilings' if they had their own way.

Some people in the UK are just stuck in a past that is long gone.

They yearn for those long gone days of empire when we could impose trading conditions on the rest of the world.

50% of exports to the EU and 40% to the Euro-zone. We need to support this project.

As for the whole silly 'Euro Empire' scaremongering.

I only wish it were true!

[Blackwhite]

The referendum is actually a very clever strategy - it will be extremely difficult for EU HQ to ignore the democratic wishes of a nation as expressed in this vote.

Brussels will probably just force the Greek people to keep re-taking the referendum until they come up with the "correct" answer, just like it did with the Irish over the EU Constitution.

[None of the above]

Brussels will probably just force the Greek people to keep re-taking the referendum until they come up with the "correct" answer, just like it did with the Irish over the EU Constitution.

Well, let's hope so hey!

[Blackwhite]

You forget that you are dealing with people who would still be paying for 'pounds' of things with 'farthings and schilings' if they had their own way.

Some people in the UK are just stuck in a past that is long gone.

And the British would be using the disastrous euro currency if people like Br Cornelius had their way.

Thankfully Gordon Brown didn't listen to the likes of Br Cornelius and wisely made Britain keep the pound.

And I also don't see what problem it would have been if Britain was still using pounds, shillings and pennies. As I mentioned above, we could have had a far worse currency.

They yearn for those long gone days of empire when we could impose trading conditions on the rest of the world.

Give me the British Empire any day over the Franco-German Empire.

50% of exports to the EU and 40% to the Euro-zone. We need to support this project.

We don't export as much to the EU as you Eurobots fool people into believing. The Rotterdam Effect exaggerates the amount of goods which Britain exports to the EU, as I've already pointed out.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Blackwhite