R.I.P. Gaddafi

[Scott G]

thanks....that one is all in one part...but it also has the added bits.

I'm wondering what has been left out (if anything)...what was it in the unadulterated version

that we weren't meant to see. Or was it that they wanted to stick the propaganda in.

I'm not sure that anything was left out of the fragmented version. I think it was fragmented because youtube doesn't allow videos to be uploaded in chunks much larger than 5 minutes.. unless you pay a fee? It just seems I don't see too many youtube videos that are that long, so I'm guessing this is why.

However, this doesnt mean that I think that documentary said everything that has to be said about the issue. As a matter of fact, I much prefer articles from sites such as prisonplanet like this one, as they add a lot of stuff that is left out of most media sources.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Scott G

[bee]

.

thanks scott.....

meanwhile in Libya...Jibril ('NTC' leader) has stepped down. He was the guy who's arms were held up by Cameron and Sarcozy

like people do in a boxing ring for the victor after a boxing match...

and the new Prime Minister...is a dual US/Libyan citizen!

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/11/01/dual-us-libyan-citizen-appointed-new-libyan-prime-minister/

Abdurraheem el-Keib spent his career in academia and has at least some tenuous ties to the energy sector

[snip]

The fact that the new Libyan Prime Minister is a US citizen and has at least tenuous ties to the petroleum and energy industry is raising the eyebrows of some who viewed the US-NATO intervention as an attempt to change the Libyan regime to one more favorable to Western interests. How it will play out among the people, who had no say in his election, remains to be seen.

[Mr.United_Nations]

WAIT! STOP!

When Gaddafi started to attack his own people before UN/NATO/ARABLEAGUE) got involved, everyone in America is saying "He must go" or "justice for Lockerbie". Forward to the Summer, he is dead, Americans now say "It was OIL, should have not died", "Ally of the west". Not just Americans but from all over the world.

So are these people who have short term memory loss?

So to those people, if you were in Libya, you'r family gets killed by troops, you can't fight back, you can't flee, you are trapped. What are you going to do about it?

[bee]

A Libyan in London Speaks about Libya - Part 1

part 2

[Scott G]

Good videos bee. I liked how he ended on the subject of the occupy movements. I agree with him; I truly believe that the occupy movements are the new source of democracy.

[bee]

Good videos bee. I liked how he ended on the subject of the occupy movements. I agree with him; I truly believe that the occupy movements are the new source of democracy.

Poor guy eh....he was struggling to hold back the tears in the second part...then broke down.

I wonder if his parents are dead or alive. I suspect they are probably dead.

warning...this video contains some swearing. so don't click on it if you think you will be offended.

as I have said before I would like to see Cameron prosecuted for allowing tax payers' money to be spent on

wrecking Libya and killing god knows how many civilians. And for making Britain active partners to the 'rebels'

who abused and murdered Gaddafi. (after NATO forces had wounded him) And also because he was aware that NATO

was bombing in part, in support of Al Qaeda jihadists. Which means that he was aiding and abetting a terrorist organization.

[Q24]

as I have said before I would like to see Cameron prosecuted for allowing tax payers' money to be spent on

wrecking Libya and killing god knows how many civilians. And for making Britain active partners to the 'rebels'

who abused and murdered Gaddafi. (after NATO forces had wounded him) And also because he was aware that NATO

was bombing in part, in support of Al Qaeda jihadists. Which means that he was aiding and abetting a terrorist organization.

Heyyy… aren't you supposed to be at St. Paul's getting something done about that?

[bee]

Did you like the last video I posted Q4?

I think it's brilliant. A work of art. A political work of art.

[Q24]

Did you like the last video I posted Q4?

I think it's brilliant. A work of art. A political work of art.

What can I say?

We’re British.. Yeah.. We’re British.. We’re the ****ing British..

[golfwang]

i feel the same way you do. this is what happen when saddam was in power they had pictures of his execution and videos

[Mr.United_Nations]

Poor guy eh....he was struggling to hold back the tears in the second part...then broke down.

I wonder if his parents are dead or alive. I suspect they are probably dead.

warning...this video contains some swearing. so don't click on it if you think you will be offended.

as I have said before I would like to see Cameron prosecuted for allowing tax payers' money to be spent on

wrecking Libya and killing god knows how many civilians. And for making Britain active partners to the 'rebels'

who abused and murdered Gaddafi. (after NATO forces had wounded him) And also because he was aware that NATO

was bombing in part, in support of Al Qaeda jihadists. Which means that he was aiding and abetting a terrorist organization.

Why are acting like a terrorist?

[Scott G]

Poor guy eh....he was struggling to hold back the tears in the second part...then broke down.

Yeah, for a long time I was just thinking, how is this guy holding together so well when he doesn't even know what's going on with his parents?

I wonder if his parents are dead or alive. I suspect they are probably dead.

I suspect they're alive; they got out of Sirte a few days before things really started getting hot. That being said, it doesn't mean that they're having an easy time; they gave up their home after all.

warning...this video contains some swearing. so don't click on it if you think you will be offended.

as I have said before I would like to see Cameron prosecuted for allowing tax payers' money to be spent on

wrecking Libya and killing god knows how many civilians. And for making Britain active partners to the 'rebels'

who abused and murdered Gaddafi. (after NATO forces had wounded him) And also because he was aware that NATO

was bombing in part, in support of Al Qaeda jihadists. Which means that he was aiding and abetting a terrorist organization.

Well, maybe one day. In the meantime, we've got to educate people to the point that there's enough people to actually get something like that done.

[Corp]

WAIT! STOP!

When Gaddafi started to attack his own people before UN/NATO/ARABLEAGUE) got involved, everyone in America is saying "He must go" or "justice for Lockerbie". Forward to the Summer, he is dead, Americans now say "It was OIL, should have not died", "Ally of the west". Not just Americans but from all over the world.

So are these people who have short term memory loss?

So to those people, if you were in Libya, you'r family gets killed by troops, you can't fight back, you can't flee, you are trapped. What are you going to do about it?

Die of course. Because death is better than implied imperialism it seems. Of course that's when the screams of "why didn't the West do something" start up...

[Scott G]

Die of course. Because death is better than implied imperialism it seems.

If the imperialist powers that backed the rebels didn't kill people so indiscrimately, it might have been different. But that's not the case. Here's an excerpt from a story in The Guardian concerning the war in Libya:

****************

If the Libyan war was about saving lives, it was a catastrophic failure

Nato claimed it would protect civilians in Libya, but delivered far more killing. It's a warning to the Arab world and Africa

.

.

.

What is now known, however, is that while the death toll in Libya when Nato intervened was perhaps around 1,000-2,000 (judging by UN estimates), eight months later it is probably more than ten times that figure. Estimates of the numbers of dead over the last eight months – as Nato leaders vetoed ceasefires and negotiations – range from 10,000 up to 50,000. The National Transitional Council puts the losses at 30,000 dead and 50,000 wounded.

Of those, uncounted thousands will be civilians, including those killed by Nato bombing and Nato-backed forces on the ground. These figures dwarf the death tolls in this year's other most bloody Arab uprisings, in Syria and Yemen. Nato has not protected civilians in Libya – it has multiplied the number of their deaths, while losing not a single soldier of its own.

For the western powers, of course, the Libyan war has allowed them to regain ground lost in Tunisia and Egypt, put themselves at the heart of the upheaval sweeping the most strategically sensitive region in the world, and secure valuable new commercial advantages in an oil-rich state whose previous leadership was at best unreliable. No wonder the new British defence secretary is telling businessmen to "pack their bags" for Libya, and the US ambassador in Tripoli insists American companies are needed on a "big scale".

**********

Source: http://www.guardian....trophic-failure

And here's another link regarding Libya and its former leader Gaddafi, that doesn't sugar coat Gaddafi's dictatorial style, but at the same time bears witness to the fact that his citizens did enjoy some things that many western backed governments don't:

http://www.theafrica...s-50174374.html

[Mike 215]

I would like to add a few things...

He, like Saddam, was a socialist. They were not religious leaders although from time to time they would claim they were. It seems to me that most of the people who rose up against him were the radical Moslems. I notice during the fighting that the rebels would be seen praying before battle. For a number of years Gaddafi worked with the US to suppress these radical movements and they were the ones who felt his iron hand. So we again are using these radicals like we did in Afghanistan in the 1980s. The new Libyan government contains a number of these radicals. In Egypt the same thing happened where the radicals helped to overthrow the pro-US government. Now they are slaughternig the Christians.

Why did we support the revolt?

The price of oil at $95 a barrel was a good reason as any.

I think the one incident with really decided Gaddafi downfall was the release of the Pan Am bomber from Scotland. They were paid off to get him released and we were told he was going to die. But when he landed back home, he is seen leaving the airplane on his own two feet waving to the crowds. This was a real slap in the face to the Americans and probably was the incident that conviced Obama that Gaddafi had to go. He would no longer use his wealth to aggravate us with incidents like this one with the bomber.

[bee]

i feel the same way you do. this is what happen when saddam was in power they had pictures of his execution and videos

yes it's like the modern equivalent of putting heads on poles and parading them around.

[bee]

If the imperialist powers that backed the rebels didn't kill people so indiscrimately, it might have been different. But that's not the case. Here's an excerpt from a story in The Guardian concerning the war in Libya:

****************

If the Libyan war was about saving lives, it was a catastrophic failure

Nato claimed it would protect civilians in Libya, but delivered far more killing. It's a warning to the Arab world and Africa

Source: http://www.guardian....trophic-failure

thanks for the Guardian article, Scott

also from your link....

And these massacre sites are only the latest of many such discoveries. Amnesty International has now produced compendious evidence of mass abduction and detention, beating and routine torture, killings and atrocities by the rebel militias Britain, France and the US have backed for the last eight months – supposedly to stop exactly those kind of crimes being committed by the Gaddafi regime.

the hypocrisy is so transparent, it seems like NATO, the UN and International Law Courts just don't bother

to even pretend any more. Or the pretense is so minimal that it is just to give the green light to military

action and provide mainstream media coverage.

Throughout that time African migrants and black Libyans have been subject to a relentless racist campaign of mass detention, lynchings and atrocities on the usually unfounded basis that they have been loyalist mercenaries. Such attacks continue, says Bouckaert, who witnessed militias from Misrata this week burning homes in Tawerga so that the town's predominantly black population – accused of backing Gaddafi – will be unable to return.

looks like NATO and the UN are also now backing selective 'ethnic cleansing'.....or at the very least turning a blind eye,

which is more or less the same.

[bee]

I would like to add a few things...

He, like Saddam, was a socialist. They were not religious leaders although from time to time they would claim they were. It seems to me that most of the people who rose up against him were the radical Moslems. I notice during the fighting that the rebels would be seen praying before battle. For a number of years Gaddafi worked with the US to suppress these radical movements and they were the ones who felt his iron hand. So we again are using these radicals like we did in Afghanistan in the 1980s. The new Libyan government contains a number of these radicals. In Egypt the same thing happened where the radicals helped to overthrow the pro-US government. Now they are slaughternig the Christians.

thanks for post Mike215...you bring up some excellent points

It's as if the West doesn't want secular Islamic countries to exist and 'they' would prefere them

to be hard line religious ones. Maybe because that keeps them very separate from the secular west...?

part of divide and rule?

Why did we support the revolt?

The price of oil at $95 a barrel was a good reason as any.

I think the one incident with really decided Gaddafi downfall was the release of the Pan Am bomber from Scotland. They were paid off to get him released and we were told he was going to die. But when he landed back home, he is seen leaving the airplane on his own two feet waving to the crowds. This was a real slap in the face to the Americans and probably was the incident that conviced Obama that Gaddafi had to go. He would no longer use his wealth to aggravate us with incidents like this one with the bomber.

And now cannot fund....practically single-handedly?.....the unity, education and liberation of AFRICA

the stakes (as I am now learning) were so high that Gaddafi and Gaddafi's socialist Libya would be removed at ALL COSTS...

from the video information....

1. Gaddafi wouldn't bow down to the Rothschild central reserve banking cartel.

2. Gadaffi Proposed $400 million African Satellite - gadaffi alone came up with $300 million for this project.

For those who ask, whats the big deal in it, it's really a huge set back for European western countries, because they get paid by Africa every year $500 million in rent for the services European satellite provides to Africa.

Africa being self sufficient is definitely a set back for western economy.

3. AMF: African Monetary Fund - No more borrowing from Rothschild Central Bank for African countries, AMF was planned to produce its own currency for Africa, backed by Gold standard.

Interest free.

4. Libya's $300 Billion Gold reserves.

5. Libya sits on Africa's largest oil and natural gas reserves.

6. Gadaffi planned to free the entire African continent from the clutches of Western imperialism.

7. Libya's Blue gold - Libya's priceless water basins.

.

Edited November 5, 2011 by bee

[SlimJim22]

Excellent thread Bee. I wish I could go through and read every post but time is not on my side this evening.

I'll just have to give some bullet points on things I have noticed since the conflict began:-

1) There was absolutely no diplomacy attempted by the West. As soon as there was a rebel movement, they were being supported through the media. I thought it was policy not to intervene in civil wars.

2) Significant amount of arms were supplied by the West.

3) An early action by the rebels was to form a central bank of Libya. Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya all did not have central banks a decade ago and this is an important shift. Arguably a motive has been to defend the currency markets.

4) War crimes were commited by the rebels against Libyan troops and Qadaffi supporters, including rapes, beheadings and more.

5) NATTO was dropping missiles with enriched uranium and this will stay in the soil of Libya for generations. It will cause death and birth defects,

6) Qadaffi did a fair bit for the Libyan people just as Saddam did. They both offered education and Qadaffi invested significantly in bringing water to the desert.

7) Qadaffi was sexually assaulted right before he was executed.

8) Had he survived he may have implicated the West in unknown atrocities.

9) Qadaffi's son gave himself up and was executed rather than be treated as a prisoner of war as stated by the Geneva convention.

10) The leader of the rebels supports Sharia law.

11) The flag of Al Qaeda flies above the ministry of Libyan justice.

These are all things I have read or heard from reliable sources and I can find links if required. The whole situation smells very fishy and I doubt whether more genuine freedom will be brought to the country. Financial enslavement is a far more likely outcome as Capitalism may now have another nation to consume its goods ut they may also have assisted giving terrorism a base much closer to Europe thanpreviously held.

Not a month after Qadaffi has been killed there are already discussions going on over war with Iran. That would be a totally different war and I hope that day does not come. Always the people who suffer the most are the ordinary citizens who are left to rebuild their country from rubble. The factionalism will probably be worse than ever once the dust has cleared.

[bee]

.

thanks SlimJim22.......

it's fishy and it all stinks to high heaven

I found out yesterday that....

http://nsnbc.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/un-report-offers-smoking-gun-proof-of-nato-and-us-lies-about-libya/

Before NATO and the U.S. started bombing Libya, the United Nations was preparing to bestow an award on Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, and the Libyan Jamahiriya, for its achievements in the area of human rights. That’s right–the same man, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, that NATO and the United States have been telling us for months is a “brutal dictator,” was set to be given an award for his human rights record in Libya. How strange it is that the United Nations was set to bestow a human rights award on a “brutal dictator,” at the end of March.

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/16session/A-HRC-16-15.pdf

that was in January and must have been a real worry and concern to the nations planning to bring down Gaddafi and the Jamahiriya.

something would have to be done and done quickly to nip this in the bud. What to do?

Obvious solution, get the uprising started and started imediately! And thats what happened in February.

then...enter...Soliman Bouchuiguir making wild claims to the UN that he himself admits there is no evidence for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_IU0d3WVu0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8RSvJdeakg

this farce might be amusing if it wasn't for the destruction of Libya, abuse/murder of Gaddafi and the death/wounding

of tens of thousands of civilians in Libya. So it's not amusing at all. But very very sad.

[SlimJim22]

The whole thing smacks of Operation Gladio to me. What better way to start a rebellion that through 'stay behind' groups covertly working to incite violence.

What happened in Tunisia and Egypt was totally different to what occured in Libya. It was less a rebellion and more of a civil war sponsored by NATO Imperialism.

Gadaffi was no angel but he was given little chance to defend himself against all the accusations and he probably knew what was being planned against him.

Without Gadaffi, where would Libya be? They would not have the GMMR project that irrigates the desert and they would have been exploited for resources by the west much earlier. The Imperialists will probbaly think they have to make up for lost time and this wil drive a wedge etween factions and lead to greater violence.

Interesting how quiet Tony Blair has been the whole time considering he was a close friend of Gadaffi but he has most likely been paid off like all the other parties.

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2011/11/04/smoking-gun-gaddafi-was-to-receive-u-n-human-rights-award/

As always, it is a pleasure Bee!

[bee]

No definately not THE factor, not one bit. Gadaffi could have been a great leader who loved his people and whos people loved him, or a brutal dictator and everyone feared him. Simple fact is he could not be controlled. He didn't play ball. There are worse dictators out there right now, we're not overthrowing them. They play ball.

yes and that would never do

especially as Libya was a combination of economically independant + socialist

The whole thing smacks of Operation Gladio to me. What better way to start a rebellion that through 'stay behind' groups covertly working to incite violence.

What happened in Tunisia and Egypt was totally different to what occured in Libya. It was less a rebellion and more of a civil war sponsored by NATO Imperialism.

Gadaffi was no angel but he was given little chance to defend himself against all the accusations and he probably knew what was being planned against him.

Without Gadaffi, where would Libya be? They would not have the GMMR project that irrigates the desert and they would have been exploited for resources by the west much earlier. The Imperialists will probbaly think they have to make up for lost time and this wil drive a wedge etween factions and lead to greater violence.

Interesting how quiet Tony Blair has been the whole time considering he was a close friend of Gadaffi but he has most likely been paid off like all the other parties.

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2011/11/04/smoking-gun-gaddafi-was-to-receive-u-n-human-rights-award/

As always, it is a pleasure Bee!

bolded....he was very quiet, regarding the Mainstream Media...but I found this last night.

Same old Tony. Same old liar.

It made me sick to listen to him. I had to tell someone on this forum yesterday that in Britain

Blair is more or less an outcast because of his warmongering. I will never forget watching him

persuading parliament to back the Iraq war. Even though he is a good liar. You could tell he was

lying. It was a moment of utter embarassment for the nation. But it was enough to bring the majority

of MPs into line.

Gaddafi wouldn't reform internally says Tony Blair

Blair has sold his soul to the devil.

He is pretending that he doesn't know about the Direct Democracy that the Libyans had.

The exact kind of democracy that is now being called for by the Occupy Movement in America and elsewhere.

and the help he speaks of....not necessarily military he says....no Tony of course not, you're not

a patsy and a warmonger are you?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8860680/Nato-formally-declares-end-of-operations-in-Libya.html

In total, "Operation Unified Protector", as the Nato action was code-named, flew 26,000 sorties over Libya from the time the UN no-fly zone was declared on March 17, and hit 5,900 targets.

Help for Libya...courtesy of the UN and NATO.

And now the Al Qaeda flag flies over the Court House in Benghazi and the country is under Sharia law.

Courtesy of the UN and NATO.

The country now faces years of social unrest and economic hardship.

Courtesy of the UN and NATO.

Yes that was very helpful

[bee]

June 2011...

Libyan Women, A Message to Hillary Clinton, and Obama's wife's ( English), War On Libya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dANkewcl7e8&feature=related

The reputations of the UN, NATO, the US (and individual politicians involved) are stained forever

over what happened to Libya and to Gaddafi.

Iraq was bad enough and now this...

.

Edited November 8, 2011 by bee

[acidhead]

This woman makes me sick. I'll never ever forget this video.... bloody disgusting.

[bee]

.

Latest developments in Libya....

Do we hear about any of this in the main stream media of the US, Britain, France etc?

.