Talon Posted September 12, 2004 Author #101 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I think it is abhorent that we are sending our youth to kill and be killed...all in the name of Jobs for Haliburton. I don't see Bush sending his daughters over there. Left Hardly You forget a lot of left wingers say, we're there now, can't pull out until its done. And Christians say that all the time over here, and Christainity tends to be a right-wing. Only they say Blair' sons... who are what 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted September 12, 2004 #102 Share Posted September 12, 2004 No, you are right, joc, that's what I came up with; they will never see. No... and you'll never see it our way. Our ideologies are incompatable beyond the agreement 'terrorists are evil'. This is one of those cases to agree to disagree and just hope the side we support ends up in government. Beecause nothing we say or do here will matter in the long run. 263291[/snapback] I have to agree with you...warring ideologies. But I do think what we say here and do here matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted September 12, 2004 Author #103 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I don't see how, it doesn't change opinions or the government's actions. Only protesting in public, voting and rioting ever really changes anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted September 12, 2004 #104 Share Posted September 12, 2004 He was in some school of primary school age children attending a class that was reading some fairytale book, he carried on reading some book about bears after he knew the worst tragedy in american history was unfolding, no emotion , no urgency ...nothing. I wouldve have left that school straight away and headed straight to the head of operations where i wouldve attempted to get as much info as i could as fast as i could. I would not have sat reading a fairytale , maybe he just couldnt tell the difference. you are kidding right? do you even understand how things work during an event like 9/11? 1) Bush remained inside the school for a total of around 10 minutes, after he found out about the attacks..why? BECAUSE THE GOD DAMNED SECRET SERVICE NEEDED HIM IN A SECURE LOCATION! ffs what the **** do you guys want him to do? jump out and charge out the door? things don't work like that, the system is designed to work without the input of the president, the priority was to secure the location and secure the exit path. Leaving immediately could potentially have ended up with mr bush being assasinated. "oh but he could have asked for information!" some of you will say after reading my reasonable explanation for bush sitting around, if Bush had to ask this, i would say the system was a peice of uneffecient bull****. So at the time, what could Bush have done? Not go crazy like some of you seem to be suggesting he does would be a good thing, why? because he had cameras on him. remember kids, Kennedy found out about the whole cuban missile crisis 6 hours after it had started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomgirl Posted September 12, 2004 #105 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Bush is just the puppet and doesn't move until his strings are pulled, he sat there because he would have been waiting for instructions on what to do, hence the dumb ass look on his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted September 12, 2004 Author #106 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Bush is just the puppet and doesn't move until his strings are pulled, he sat there because he would have been waiting for instructions on what to do, hence the dumb ass look on his face. Yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted September 12, 2004 #107 Share Posted September 12, 2004 nice arguement doomgirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted September 12, 2004 #108 Share Posted September 12, 2004 (edited) I don't see how, it doesn't change opinions or the government's actions. Only protesting in public, voting and rioting ever really changes anything. 263438[/snapback] I think you are tallking about the surface of things. In the long run I think all of this does matter and it does change things; it influences minds. You are right about rioting. Violence does change things. I agree with you, bathory, about Bush in the school. Wun doesn't understand, he simplifies everything to fit his point. You could say it in 42 ways and in 42 different languages and wun wouldn't get it. Sorry, wun, I still love you. Edited September 12, 2004 by Babs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted September 12, 2004 #109 Share Posted September 12, 2004 (edited) Actually this is a remarkable leadership trait. He was calm, collected, didn't scare the children or even let on that anything was wrong, while at the same time, thinking what to do....really what could he have done? You don't understand leadership. Leaders don't panic. Bush is a great man and you are never going to see it through the eye glasses of the left. So I am not even going to waste my breath anymore. I have to agree with Joc this time. Bush, instead of his usual not looking before he leaps, did something right for a change by remaining calm. The worst thing he could of done was jump up and panic the children and everyone else that was around him at that moment. He is the President, people look up to him...crazy as this is... if people see the President panicking then all hell would of let loose and then people would of only complained about his lack of composure. He for once showed some restraint and collectiveness and composure that is a trait of a good leader. Edited September 12, 2004 by Lottie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted September 13, 2004 #110 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I think you are tallking about the surface of things. In the long run I think all of this does matter and it does change things; it influences minds. You are right about rioting. Violence does change things. I agree with you, bathory, about Bush in the school. Wun doesn't understand, he simplifies everything to fit his point. You could say it in 42 ways and in 42 different languages and wun wouldn't get it. Sorry, wun, I still love you. Babs i still like the fact that after arrogantly claiming we dont understand terrorism you still havent even attempted to reply to my comments on the IRA or Basque sepraritists. I like the fact that you just let joc , wrongly, reply. At least he attempted to , you describe me as if i havent a clue about whats going on.....lol. I love it , you dont even realsie that when you fail to reply on these issues your silence is deafining, how can we repsect you if you dont reply to perfectly valid comments, or is it that you just dont know anything about the troubles in Ireland or Spain, is it that you just havent bothered to learn about OUR terrorist problems before shooting your mouth of about us???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted September 13, 2004 #111 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Shooting my big mouth off, I'm taking that "I still love you part" back I happen to agree with joc, wun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted September 14, 2004 #112 Share Posted September 14, 2004 What do u agree with joc about?? The troubles in Ireland?? The fact that he got it wrong and didnt understand the troubles or the type of hatred and terrorists that existed. What is it that you agree with exactly?? COme on why why dont you educate me about northern ireland and the West of scotland?? You can explain sectarian terrorism and hatred to me ??? Because seeminly you and joc have experienced it??? Im seriously want you to reply to this post, it would seriously help me understand where your coming from. Joc stated that the two werent the same yet he couldnt back it up because henever experienced it, talon and lottie (who backs yourpoints occasionally) both backed me up and joc never replied again. I can only assume he realised he may have been wrong on this issue. So please explain to me what YOU think about the sectarian terrorism here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted September 14, 2004 #113 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Anyone wanna take bets on wether this will just be ignored as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted September 14, 2004 #114 Share Posted September 14, 2004 Babs i love it that you had the perfect opportunity to prove to me that you were speaking blindly on a subject you dont understand. But your silence is deafening, by not answering me you have proven to me and hopefully every other person who reads this that you CANNOT comment on our situation because you havent even bothered to learn about OUR situation. How dare you criticise me about terrorism?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted September 14, 2004 #115 Share Posted September 14, 2004 I think it is pretty clear that our friends in the UK have an unfortunate understanding of terrorism that is decades longer in history than what we have been dealing with here in the US. That being said, 9/11 was the first big attack against the US on US soil in the lifetime of most of the readers of this forum. It was big and had a huge impact on most of the people that live here in the US as well as people all over the world. The very fact that you folks in the UK have had to deal with terrorism of different flavors for so long means that you have a different perspective on it than we in the US do. Not that anyone can ever get used to terrorism, but the personal impact of the first attack is different than what follows. 9/11 was a big one; in body count as well as psychological impact it did a good job in causing terror. The result is that people that have been so isolated from the effects of terrorism for a long time now have terrorism brought to them and put on their collective laps. For the first time we have seen the attacks in the US...we know the buildings that fell...we know the people that died as neighbors, friends, whatever... In my opinion it is that first attack, eye opening, live changing event that causes the reaction that we are seeing here where people feel that they have the corner market on the understanding of terrorism. That does not mean that it is excusable to think that we are the center of the terrorists world and more understanding of the subject of the next guy. Perhaps we can get back to the important topic of the 1000+ soldiers that have died in Iraq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snuffypuffer Posted September 14, 2004 #116 Share Posted September 14, 2004 And all but around 140 have died after major combat operations supposedly ended. Now, I'm no military scholar, I don't know much about tactics and all that, but when major combat ends, aren't you supposed to take less casualties? You know, going about the business of securing your perimeter and installing your new government, and doing basic mop up and all that? Instead of having your troops sitting around with targets on their backs and helping the other side recruit? I could be wrong but I thought we made Iraq our 53rd state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted September 15, 2004 #117 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Yeah fluffy you are totally right , 9/11 was horrific theres never been a terrorist attack on that scale but if babs and joc are gonna lecture me on terrorism and accuse me of being clueless i have to respond. I see babs still hasnt replied. Snuffy yeah your right, however, in that kind of hostile environment it has to be expected. It happened to the british in N.Ireland and its the perfect example. They just picked of our soldiers one by one. Its very hard when the soldiers cant tell who friend or foe is , everyone looks the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted September 15, 2004 #118 Share Posted September 15, 2004 (edited) Here you go again. Look back (World Events & Current Affairs...on p.9) at the thread entitled "French Seized In Iraq". P. 5 and 6 should tell you what you need to know. (Babs and panther) You are putting words in my mouth and building a case on it again. You've done that with panther and fmorrow6 and me...who else do you do this with? Then you get your cronies on the bandwagon and say, "I haven't heard from you"_ inferrring it must be true. Great technique. I guess it confuses people and makes you look like the star. Edited September 15, 2004 by Babs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted September 15, 2004 #119 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Babs, Wun please drop it. Please stay on topic and stop the personal attacks. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted September 15, 2004 #120 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Now, I'm no military scholar, well thats your problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snuffypuffer Posted September 15, 2004 #121 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Now, I'm no military scholar, well thats your problem 267529[/snapback] What, so it's common to lose more soldiers after the heavy fighting's over? Really? So it's not the result of poor planning then? Look, I realize it's not all daisies over there, but I still can't see that there was a solid plan in place for after we booted Saddam out of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 15, 2004 #122 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Babs, Wun please drop it. Please stay on topic and stop the personal attacks. Thanks. 267514[/snapback] I agree. This is getting old, and accomplishing nothing. Kismit and I have disagreed many times in the past regarding politics, but I have always had(and still have) the highest respect for her. We agree to disagree, and that's ok, because not everyone is going to agree/believe the same things. There's no reason to attack someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted September 15, 2004 #123 Share Posted September 15, 2004 (edited) If it is poor planning then that was a disgrace because this happeneing was obvious to anyone. It was clear we would end up fighting guerrilla warfare. You only have to look at the afghanistan (soviet era) and N.ireland to see what happens when you invade another country . Edited September 15, 2004 by wunarmdscissor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snuffypuffer Posted September 15, 2004 #124 Share Posted September 15, 2004 True, true. It is pretty foolish to think that many of these guys are just gonna drop their guns and give us a good hearty handshake. Still, from what I've read, aren't a lot of these guys foreigners, anyway (not Iraqis)? Still, this would mean major combat really isn't over, now is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted September 15, 2004 #125 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I am tired of answering wun. He goes on and on, and no one tells him to drop it. But as soon as I answer his posts his friend, fluffy, says to drop it. I am not going to answer you anymore, wun. This is why it took me so long to reply to you, I am tired of all this. Back on topic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now