NASA Astronaut Confirms Apollo UFO Incident 2

[Hazzard]

Pssst....Yea, I know, Lil.

I was just hoping to get through the rather silly argument that's developing about something old and fleshed out before, and get to the point . We are in the UFO thread.

I'd rather hear people attempt to prove that this big, spinning hunk of metal was ET!

i'M EVIL THAT WAY, YA KNOW!!!

I have been searching, and waiting, for decades for someone to prove that anything reported was made by ET.

How much longer do I have to wait!?

[lost_shaman]

The 4 panels traveled outbound with them, as they were separated from the SIV-B prior to the SIV-B's manever.

They traveled with an outward velocity estimated to be between 10-15 FPS. They had been doing so for ~ 53 hours +/-.

That means somewhere in the 300-400 mile range.

This thing most assuredly was a highly reflective SLA panel, ~ 15 feet by 30 feet or so, white on one side, silver on the other.

When you add the Mid course corrections they were around the 700 mile or so range. The largest side of a panel was just under 22 ft long. To fit the description of the sighting an SLA panel would have to have been around 13 -14 miles from the LM. Therefore they don't fit the description. Sorry.

[MID]

When you add the Mid course corrections they were around the 700 mile or so range. The largest side of a panel was just under 22 ft long. To fit the description of the sighting an SLA panel would have to have been around 13 -14 miles from the LM. Therefore they don't fit the description. Sorry.

You should be sorry.

If not now, you will be...

Kindly tell me ...

1. How many mid-course corrections were there on Apollo 11's outbound flight?

When did they occur?

2. Tell me what the net delta V of the mid-course corrections were and...

3. Show me how they would've made a difference in the distance of the panels from the spacecraft.

4. Tell me how it's possible that the ISS, 1500 miles away, can appear in the sky larger than the largest star in the sky, and explain why a huge piece of reflective metal, spinning and reflecting, in the pitch blackness of space with no atmosphere to diminish seeing at all, 1780000 miles out in space--shouldn't be visible form a few hundred miles in space...

Try that.

Take your time.

[lost_shaman]

You should be sorry.

If not now, you will be...

No I'm not, and I doubt it.

Kindly tell me ...

1. How many mid-course corrections were there on Apollo 11's outbound flight?

When did they occur?

2. Tell me what the net delta V of the mid-course corrections were and...

3. Show me how they would've made a difference in the distance of the panels from the spacecraft.

One. 026:44:58.64 to 026:45:01.77 GET. 20.9 ft/p/sec. Your third question is self evident.

[lost_shaman]

4. Tell me how it's possible that the ISS, 1500 miles away, can appear in the sky larger than the largest star in the sky, and explain why a huge piece of reflective metal, spinning and reflecting, in the pitch blackness of space with no atmosphere to diminish seeing at all, 1780000 miles out in space--shouldn't be visible form a few hundred miles in space...

Try that.

Take your time.

At 1500 miles the ISS would be about 9 arc seconds. At such a distance the ISS wouldn't fit the descrition of being at the resolution limit of the eye (~60 arc seconds).

[lost_shaman]

Kindly tell me ...

Since you have no qualms asking me to do homework to answer your questions then I'm sure you won't mind if I ask you to explain to readers why the SLA panels and CSM-LM being in different orbits were only getting further and futher away from eachother during the 53 hours between seperation.

And how the midcourse correction exagerated this seperation.

Thanks. Take your time.

Edited November 12, 2011 by lost_shaman

[lost_shaman]

At 1500 miles the ISS would be about 9 arc seconds. At such a distance the ISS wouldn't fit the descrition of being at the resolution limit of the eye (~60 arc seconds).

I want to point out that no 'Star' would fit that description and that the Crew spent a bit of their time looking for or at Stars. There are no Stars that would be near the eye's resolution limit.

Edited November 12, 2011 by lost_shaman

[MID]

At 1500 miles the ISS would be about 9 arc seconds. At such a distance the ISS wouldn't fit the descrition of being at the resolution limit of the eye (~60 arc seconds).

Since you have no qualms asking me to do homework to answer your questions then I'm sure you won't mind if I ask you to explain to readers why the SLA panels and CSM-LM being in different orbits were only getting further and futher away from eachother during the 53 hours between seperation.

And how the midcourse correction exagerated this seperation.

Thanks. Take your time.

That's an HB defensive answer lost. I expected better. Sorry to offend you, but I wanted to see if you actually knew anything about this.

As to your question above, I've already explained that, as have others, many times. Lateral velocity determined the distance between the panels and the spacecraft.

Let's go back and see if you can get the points of my questions.

1. How many mid-course corrections were there on Apollo 11's outbound flight?

You answered one. You were absolutely correct. Thus, your net effect of the midcourse corrections increasing the distance to 700 miles was incorrect. That would've required a doubling of the relative lateral velocity between the panels and the spacecraft. No such thing happened.

2. Tell me what the net delta V of the mid-course corrections were

And you said 20.9 FPS.

You read off of tables well, but don't realize that the actual space fixed velocity decreased 15 FPS during that burn.

Let's say it's 20 FPS just to make it easy.

I then asked you the fail question:

3. Show me how they would've made a difference in the distance of the panels from the spacecraft.

You failed to answer.

Because you can't. It's not self evident in the least, unless you assume that outward velocity remained constant between the panels and spacecraft, meaning that fixed velocity of the spacecraft and panels didn't waver. The fact is the velocity of the panels and the spacecraft were changing all the time.

Of course you're saying 20 FPS for the ~ 18 hours from the MCC until the sighting nets 245 miles behind the panels, as well as 350 or so miles abeam, netting straight line of sight of 700 miles (?) The assumption regarding velocities would be wrong, and the distance between them would've been 450 miles, not 700, if you were correct.

The fact of the matter is the real influence in the distance between the panels and the spacecraft was the lateral separation velocity the panels received at jettison.

The fact is that Apollo 11 was at 5010 FPS at the end of MCC1, and was decreasing in velocity anyway, so that at the time of the sighting, the spacecraft velocity was down to less that 3200 FPS. The panels were in different orbits, but were also affected by the Earth's gravity and were slowing down as well. There was nothing that was going to double the distance between them. Lateral velocity was the factor, and even if there was a 20 FPS difference, they wouldn't have been 700 miles away.

What I was trying to get you to do was show me 700 miles. You can't do that. There's not enough data on the panels, as they weren't trackable. We only know they flew out after jettison between 10 and 15 FPS lateral velocity relative to the spacecraft. That's around 350-400 miles distant at sighting time. Maybe 430-450 if there was any outward velocity difference of 20 FPS. Can't tell that either.

You can just say that 700 miles is ridiculous, and it doesn't really matter at all, as no one really cared. We were all a little busy getting ready to land people on the Moon.

This has all been covered in too much detail before.

[MID]

No I'm not, and I doubt it.

[MID]

When you add the Mid course corrections they were around the 700 mile or so range.

Again...how?

I asked, but you failed to answer, so I showed you that the assumption was incorrect.

I think you should drop it and maybe attempt to explain my real question about this matter?

What do you people think it was, if not what it most certainly was???

[MID]

At 1500 miles the ISS would be about 9 arc seconds. At such a distance the ISS wouldn't fit the descrition of being at the resolution limit of the eye (~60 arc seconds).

???

I asked why we could see it, which we can at such a distance, through an atmosphere!

Further, Progress vehicles are also typically seen at such distances from the Earth, through an atmosphere!

Problem is, a Progress is 26 feet by 9 feet.

We can see Progress, through an atmosphere, at distances that are 4 times or better greater than the SLA panel was from Apollo 11, in space...vacuum. Further, Progress is around the same size as an SLA panel!

Just pointing out the oddity in your argument.

Edited November 12, 2011 by MID

[mcrom901]

We only know they flew out after jettison between 10 and 15 FPS lateral velocity relative to the spacecraft. That's around 350-400 miles distant at sighting time. Maybe 430-450 if there was any outward velocity difference of 20 FPS. Can't tell that either.

how about 577?

The Apollo 11 mission report states that the midcourse

correction occurred at 26 hr 45 min and was an increase of

velocity of 20.9 ft/sec. This appears to be fairly close to the

direction of motion (velocity change along X axis =-14.19

ft/sec, Y axis= +13.17 ft/sec, Z axis=+7.56 ft/sec in the earth

centered interial coordinate system). So we can basically assume

that the spacecraft sped up by 20.9 ft/sec. The crew sighted the

UFO at 60 hr 49 min. So the total time which the SLA and CSM

diverge from the midcourse correction is about 34 hr and 4 min

or 122640 seconds. 20.9 ft/sec over this time period gives

2563176 ft or 421 nautical miles/485 statute miles/781 km.

This does not include the divergence due to the jettison

velocity which at best is supposed to be 8 ft/sec. The SLA

panel jettison occurs at roughly 3 hr 17 min giving 57 hr and

32 min of travel time (207120 sec). For 8ft/sec over this time

period gives 1656960 ft/272nautical miles/314 statute miles/

505km.

Combining the two axes/dimensions of divergence provides

a total distance of the SLA panels from the CSM of 577 statute

miles/930km!

http://ufoupdateslist.com/2007/mar/m02-004.shtml

[MID]

how about 577?

http://ufoupdateslist.com/2007/mar/m02-004.shtml

Irrelevant, and dubious again...

It was seen, how far away it was is meaningless.

It's pointless to argue. What's the point...what was it if not what it was?

Edited November 12, 2011 by MID

[TheMcGuffin]

No, that was the SIV-B, McG.

The 4 panels traveled outbound with them, as they were separated from the SIV-B prior to the SIV-B's manever.

They traveled with an outward velocity estimated to be between 10-15 FPS. They had been doing so for ~ 53 hours +/-.

That means somewhere in the 300-400 mile range.

This thing most assuredly was a highly reflective SLA panel, ~ 15 feet by 30 feet or so, white on one side, silver on the other. It ooked like a rhytmically flashing star in the distance, which is perfectly logical.

There's no real mystery about this, save this:

What is the point of the discussion about it?

What else would it possibly have been?

I have already posted a video about this, and we can hear the radio transmissions very clearly from Apollo 11 to Houston control: they asked where the S4B was were told 6,000 nautical miles behind them.

That's not me saying this, that's what they said. There was no discussion about course corrections or anything like that.

Buzz Aldrin also said that they didn't mention the object they were looking at through the telescope because they didn't want anyone listening in on these radio transmissions to hear that they'd seen a UFO. Maybe they'd want the mission to turn back because they had seen "aliens".

In fact, Aldrin used the word "aliens", so that gives us some idea what he and the other astronauts were really thinking. They doubted that this object was anything from their spacecraft but said little about it. Armstrong and Collins never said anything about it at all as far as I know.

As for NASA, they would simply say that it was a weather balloon reflected off the planet Venus or whatever. What else were they going to say? What else do they ever say about UFOs seen in space except that they are always debris, ice particles or something like that, even though the "explanations" are patently and blatantly ludicrous in many cases. No more ludicrous than swamp gas, but it's the government and that's the type of thing they always say about UFOs.

[TheMcGuffin]

Again...how?

I asked, but you failed to answer, so I showed you that the assumption was incorrect.

I think you should drop it and maybe attempt to explain my real question about this matter?

What do you people think it was, if not what it most certainly was???

And which Apollo mission took this picture? On the Internet it's often listed as an Apollo 11 photograph, but NASA insists that it was from a later mission, although the Apollo 11 UFO supposedly looked "similar".

[TheMcGuffin]

These are the infamous S4B panels that NASA talks about all the time. Supposedly some of them decided to follow along with the spacecraft, even though NASA says very clearly in its own transmissions that the S4B was 6,000 nautical miles away. I agree, those were not the UFO they were seeing on Apollo 11, which was a lot closer than 6,000 nautical miles.

This is a UFO.

Edited November 12, 2011 by TheMcGuffin

[Hazzard]

These are the infamous S4B panels that NASA talks about all the time. Supposedly some of them decided to follow along with the spacecraft, even though NASA says very clearly in its own transmissions that the S4B was 6,000 nautical miles away. I agree, those were not the UFO they were seeing on Apollo 11, which was a lot closer than 6,000 nautical miles.

Well, if you are not 100% sure what you are loking at (like the crew on Apollo 11 in this case) by definition its a UFO, right?

Space junk, S4B panels, or an alien craft, my guess is that we will never know for sure.

I know where I would put ALL my savings though - Do you?

Edited November 12, 2011 by Hazzard

[zoser]

I don't get how people can doubt a man like him.

I think it is a form of laziness; it acts as a 'peg on which to hang ones coat'. Then a person can go back to watching the football. Otherwise it requires study, thought, vision, attention, time and more. Some people are not willing to make this commitment. This is not intended as a judgement. All are entitled to do as they wish and in the end must live with what they have become.

[TheMcGuffin]

This video also claims that Apollo 11 took pictures and film of two UFOs that were watching its moon landing.

[MID]

These are the infamous S4B panels that NASA talks about all the time. Supposedly some of them decided to follow along with the spacecraft, even though NASA says very clearly in its own transmissions that the S4B was 6,000 nautical miles away. I agree, those were not the UFO they were seeing on Apollo 11, which was a lot closer than 6,000 nautical miles.

McGuff,

The fact is that all of the panels "followed along", as you say, with the spacecraft. More or less, they were all traveling outward at similar velocity to the spacecraft, but they were separating laterally as well.

They were not attached to the SIV-B stage when the SIV-B was reported 6000 miles away. They were essentially abeam the spacecraft, a few hundred miles distant.

A panel was most certainly what they saw.

[TheMcGuffin]

McGuff,

The fact is that all of the panels "followed along", as you say, with the spacecraft. More or less, they were all traveling outward at similar velocity to the spacecraft, but they were separating laterally as well.

They were not attached to the SIV-B stage when the SIV-B was reported 6000 miles away. They were essentially abeam the spacecraft, a few hundred miles distant.

A panel was most certainly what they saw.

So did they follow along after every Apollo spacecraft, or just Apollo 11?

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2002/20sep_mysteryobject/

http://www.astr.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html

Edited November 12, 2011 by TheMcGuffin

[MID]

Every one, McGuff...

The LM had to get out of there somehow. Shedding those panels was step 1.

[TheMcGuffin]

Every one, McGuff...

The LM had to get out of there somehow. Shedding those panels was step 1.

Yes, but I know that other Apollo astronauts saw "flashers" out there, too, which may have been the panels, or something else. The Apollo 17 "flashers" were mentioned in this book, for example.

http://books.google.com/books?id=x-taL4N0sjIC&pg=PA149&lpg=PA149&dq=apollo+12+sivb+panels&source=bl&ots=v73sJVtRVN&sig=vMsUGFDyvTOtCnmz1lk2ZKY4Gkw&hl=en&ei=-sW-TvXDDc2Wtwebx5S2Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

[TheMcGuffin]

This site mentions that the panels would have been in the same telescopic field of view of Apollo 8, until they made a major course correction:

"Multiple objects followed an Apollo in its path to the moon. For much of the way, until a major course correction, the four Spacecraft Lunar-Module Adapter (SLA) panels which which formerly protected the lunar module (or, for Apollo 8, a dummy mass taking the LM's place) would still be tumbling in the same telescopic field of view. For early missions, the Saturn V third stage itself (S-IVB) would remain close to the spacecraft as well. (One of these, likely from Apollo 12, was temporarily recaptured into a large orbit around Earth after 30 years in a solar orbit, in late 2002-2003). Most of the later S-IVBs were deliberately crashed into the moon, generating seismic signals of known strength and location to be picked up by the Apollo surface instrument packages)."

http://www.astr.ua.edu/keel/space/apollo.html

Edited November 12, 2011 by TheMcGuffin

[TheMcGuffin]

This is a picture of Apollo 13, two days before the explosion, which of course happened when they were almost to the moon. Did these panels follow them all the way there for two days? If so, I'm not aware of any report of them.

"This black and white photograph was taken with a Kodak 103a-D spectroscopic 4x5 glass plate at

the f/16 cassegrain focus of the 24-inch reflecting telescope using a special 4x5 camera. This picture

was made from 0523 to 0528 UT on April 12, 1970 (5 minute exposure). This photograph was

taken nearly 2 days before the explosion of one of the on-board fuel cells that created the world-

wide intense interest and concern for these three brave men, and of course, the now famous and

quite accurate Apollo 13 movie.

A unique view of the Apollo 13 CSLM: the center dot is the Apollo 13 Command/Service/Lunar

Module (CSLM) as seen Table Mountain through the 24-inch telescope. The four dots around the

CSLM are the tumbling SLA panels. The diagonal jagged white lines crossing the picture from the

lower left to the upper right are star trails during the 5 minute exposure. The actual exposure was

taken by guiding on the distant S-IVB upper last stage spent rocket body of the Saturn V launch

vehicle. This was very difficult, since the brightness of the S-IVB was extremely faint in the 1200X

magnification guide eyepiece, thus the jagged star trailed images."

Edited November 12, 2011 by TheMcGuffin