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Mike 215

Did the Romans have cars?How a

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Harte

Not only did the Romans have carts rather than cars, but the most important advance in transportation technology in the next thousand years was the invention of the horse collar - which, believe it or not, was tremendously important.

The Person pops in!

And all should cry, Beware! Beware!

His flashing eyes, his floating hair!

Weave a circle round him thrice,

And close your eyes with holy dread,

For he on honey-dew hath fed

And drunk the milk of Paradise.

Good to see your flashing eyes.

Harte

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Druidus-Logos

Lava has been mentioned here regarding the forging of steel. However, I find it difficult to see how this can be (for the following reasons.)

1.Lava solidifies very quickly once exposed air.

2.This would mean using the lava 'in situ' and I doubt very much wthether in those days they had heat resistant clothing, although from some of the clains made in this thread I am sure somebody will prove me wrong. Even with our present technology in this type of clothing we could not stand too close to molten lava for a long time. Certainly not long enough, I would suggest, to produce steel,

3. Did the Greeks have any continuous lava flows which could possibly of been used for this purpose? I may be wrong but the nearest active volcanos are along the lower part of Italy/Sicily are tbey not?

This sounds accurate to me. I find lava to be kind of a huge stretch, myself. As for other heat sources, I don't know what they could have possibly used, but, again, arguing about the steel is pointless unless one of us has an actual artifact or pertinent reference. They may have produced small quantities of poor steel (possibly accidentally, possibly on purpose), seems to be the general consensus amongst what I've read so far. They could have sometimes produced higher quality steel, but nothing compared to ACTUAL indust. rev. steel, and certainly not modern steel.

I still hold that you can have an industrial revolution, especially on the small scale of the ancient population of Greece, without the intrinsic necessity of steel.

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Oniomancer

As an engineer I assure you it isnt possible by hand

As someone with an interest in sculpture and carving and some familiarity with with what's possible by hand work, I'm inclined to disagree. My experience with fringe-oriented engineers has shown a general sublime disregard for the methods of their predecessors. Are you for instance incapable of laying out a precise design with a CAD?

However, There may be some misunderstanding here. By hand-cut, I'm not talking about entirely free-hand. Almost certainly they would've employed some method of indexing and jig-cutting. Again, This does not require full-blown machinery as we would think of it.

I repeat, how did they cut clock gears in the middle ages?

Here's something that may be of interest, a reproduction of an antique gear cutting engine:

http://blog.dugnorth.com/2011/06/scratch-built-hand-cranked-gear-cutting.html

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Harte

Gawd, humans today have become far more stupider than the ancients.

Romans were inventing transportation devices. Modern man just eats them.

Harte

Edited by Harte

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Oniomancer

Are you for instance incapable of laying out a precise design with a CAD?

Correction, _without_ a CAD.

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Mr Right Wing

In approximately 200 years, we're expected to have a ridiculous level of technological achievement. If they were thousands of years ahead of us, at that time, then they would have invented such things as computers roughly 800-400 BCE, wide margin of error. We'd have found evidence of this. You can't hide the extirpation of an entire culture that also happens to be advanced enough to be expected to leave ARTIFACTS. Serious stuff, like communications tech, robots, nanomachinery, radar, astronomy, satellites (would have had those perfected in the middle ages, lol), nuclear weaponry, airships, etc. Plus, you can't convince me a civilization that far ahead of us wouldn't have scouted using their airships that they'd undoubtedly have designed while becoming so advanced. They would have explored Earth, and they would have seen the European "threat" long before it became one. They would not be caught unawares.

Oh yes, yes you are so close.

Go read some indus valley vedic scripts. They describe things like computers, cars, satelittes, spaceships even nuclear weapons. How did they do that?

I suggest the ruins you see are just the buildings. The rest of the civilization got gutted. The proof is in the few texts that remain that talk about this stuff.

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Druidus-Logos

Oh yes, yes you are so close.

Go read some indus valley vedic scripts. They describe things like computers, cars, satelittes, spaceships even nuclear weapons. How did they do that?

No, they describe things that can be interpreted as those things. Just because you interpret them that way (and don't kid yourself, you didn't think it up yourself, you got it from the beliefs of others) doesn't mean that's what they actually are. I'm well aware of the scripts you are suggesting I read, and I beg to differ on your interpretation, I find it not a given at all that a single one of those items are indicated, beyond what any culture could create in its myths and legends.

I suggest the ruins you see are just the buildings. The rest of the civilization got gutted. The proof is in the few texts that remain that talk about this stuff.

*facepalm*

Ok, I see the light, now, it makes perfect sense. You've overwhelmed my feeble defenses and forced me to realize your correctness using your vast abilities in logic and with the mounds of sources you've supplied. I can no longer deny it.

:rolleyes:

Please, at the very least, try to formulate an argument to actually try to convince me, don't just say more extravagant claims and supply no backup information to speak of for said claims.

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Mr Right Wing

No, they describe things that can be interpreted as those things. Just because you interpret them that way (and don't kid yourself, you didn't think it up yourself, you got it from the beliefs of others) doesn't mean that's what they actually are. I'm well aware of the scripts you are suggesting I read, and I beg to differ on your interpretation, I find it not a given at all that a single one of those items are indicated, beyond what any culture could create in its myths and legends.

*facepalm*

Ok, I see the light, now, it makes perfect sense. You've overwhelmed my feeble defenses and forced me to realize your correctness using your vast abilities in logic and with the mounds of sources you've supplied. I can no longer deny it.

:rolleyes:

Please, at the very least, try to formulate an argument to actually try to convince me, don't just say more extravagant claims and supply no backup information to speak of for said claims.

You cant deny what the Vedic texts contain but you could question its implications. You could call it sci-fi instead of history but that doesnt explain the knowledge present in them. I've read some too and its clear what they are talking about.

I accept its totally at odds with how our history is seen but saracasm? Really its like talking to a 5 year old child.

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Abramelin

You cant deny what the Vedic texts contain but you could question its implications. You could call it sci-fi instead of history but that doesnt explain the knowledge present in them. I've read some too and its clear what they are talking about.

I accept its totally at odds with how our history is seen but saracasm? Really its like talking to a 5 year old child.

Then pretend we are indeed 5 year old kids, and quote slowly and clearly from the Vedas so we may understand.

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hortie

Betcha he was all pimped and in a convertible

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Gaden

If you do not believe that the Romans had a car, how about the Greeks having a death ray that can burn ships? See Archimedes Heat Ray on google. IN 212 BC in the seige of Syracuse Archimedes used some kind of devise to destroy an entire fleet of Roman Ships. What this device was is not clear but apparently it was based on mirrors to concentrate the sun's rays to make a death ray capable of burning wooden ships.

The problem with the description of the device is that even with our technology we cannot reproduce exactly when he did. There have been many experiments using mirrors to burn model ships less then 100 feet away and they have been successf

ul. The probem is that we do not have the mirrors or the technology to throw that beam hundreds of feet and capable of burning an entire fleet of ships. Solar furnances which have hundreds of mirrors have a short focial lengths to concentrate the sun's heat.

Anyway,I think that this great Greek scientist developed some kind of laser system using the sun's rays to project a laser beam a great distance. It is only system I can think that would accomplish what the Romans described in this battle.

From the same guy that doesn't believe man walked on the moon.

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willowdreams

If you do not believe that the Romans had a car, how about the Greeks having a death ray that can burn ships? See Archimedes Heat Ray on google. IN 212 BC in the seige of Syracuse Archimedes used some kind of devise to destroy an entire fleet of Roman Ships. What this device was is not clear but apparently it was based on mirrors to concentrate the sun's rays to make a death ray capable of burning wooden ships.

The problem with the description of the device is that even with our technology we cannot reproduce exactly when he did. There have been many experiments using mirrors to burn model ships less then 100 feet away and they have been successf

ul. The probem is that we do not have the mirrors or the technology to throw that beam hundreds of feet and capable of burning an entire fleet of ships. Solar furnances which have hundreds of mirrors have a short focial lengths to concentrate the sun's heat.

Anyway,I think that this great Greek scientist developed some kind of laser system using the sun's rays to project a laser beam a great distance. It is only system I can think that would accomplish what the Romans described in this battle.

Didnt the mythbusters test this out not once but twice? The second time it was revisited because Obama requested it to be? It was proven 'busted' i think

Sorry if someone else has posted this, did not read through the responses yet.

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Mike 215

There were a number of tests trying to reproduce what Archimedes did and they all failed because they were using mirrors. In order to burn those ships he needed a concentrated heat ray which could be obtained with a laser system. I am sure he learned how to make a heat ray from his experiences at the Library of Alexandria. He might have gotten the ruby needed for his laser in the Museum.

As for the Hindu texts that describe the ancient technology that included flying machines and nuclear weapons, Von Daniken went to India to confront Hindu professors about these passages and they could not explain them away as some fantasy. They told him they did not know if they were real or not.

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Aus Der Box Skeptisch

There were a number of tests trying to reproduce what Archimedes did and they all failed because they were using mirrors. In order to burn those ships he needed a concentrated heat ray which could be obtained with a laser system. I am sure he learned how to make a heat ray from his experiences at the Library of Alexandria. He might have gotten the ruby needed for his laser in the Museum.

As for the Hindu texts that describe the ancient technology that included flying machines and nuclear weapons, Von Daniken went to India to confront Hindu professors about these passages and they could not explain them away as some fantasy. They told him they did not know if they were real or not.

I have addressed the Hindu subject in part but was ignored. Either address what I brought up or quit bringing up this garbage. The Hindu culture is wonderful and deserving of discussion. But I want your research on the table not the likes of Von daniLIE. I hope you are here to be serious as there are many more people who come here to read and learn than who contribute. You are representing knowledge and I hope you do so in a respective manner.

Edited by Aus Der Box Skeptisch

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JGirl

How advanced were the Romans and the ancients? Maybe they had cars. In 100 AD there was a coin minted to celebrate the making of the first highway in Rome. This coin shows the Roman emperor Trajan driving a car with his hand on a steering wheel and he is wearing a seat belt. Here is a quote from a coin magazine about this coin:

"Via traiana, an extension of the Appian Way in southern Italy. The depiction of the personification of the highway is reminiscient of the art nouvean posters of the 20s and 30s advertising motor cars."

Here are some web sites: http://tjbuggey.ancients.info/viatraj.html

http:tjbuggey.ancients.info/images//viatraj.jpg

So what are the implications? IF the Romans had a working steam or gasoline engine, they we know how the pyramids were built.

um it looks nothing like he's driving a car to me. what a massive stretch!

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jakesteele

I've got a neat idea. Let's all go outside and watch clouds and tell each other what we see.

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Aus Der Box Skeptisch

I've got a neat idea. Let's all go outside and watch clouds and tell each other what we see.

That holds more truth to the subject we are talking about than the last two pages put together... nice post

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SikFly

No, no they did not.

And honestly, it's strange that you chose to interpret that coin as a car. It honestly looks more like a jet-ski, which would be both somehow even more absurd, and a thousand times more hilarious.

Interpretation, yes...see this is why we have so many sightings of anything imaginable.

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Englishgent

I've got a neat idea. Let's all go outside and watch clouds and tell each other what we see.

No need to go outside. Just click here http://cloudappreciationsociety.org :)

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The_Spartan

As for the Hindu texts that describe the ancient technology that included flying machines and nuclear weapons, Von Daniken went to India to confront Hindu professors about these passages and they could not explain them away as some fantasy. They told him they did not know if they were real or not.

Any BS on the India mythology interests me.

Tell me Mike, when did this pseudo daniken contact the Hindu professors??

details, mate!

Quote some reliable sources please.

The Indian Institute of Science, which is the premier most establishment in india for science, like MIT etc, did a evaluation of the 'Vymanika Shastra" which daniken and his ilk quote and found that the stuff described in the "channeled" book are not feasible to fly or even provide a lifting thrust.

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Golden Duck

There were a number of tests trying to reproduce what Archimedes did and they all failed because they were using mirrors. In order to burn those ships he needed a concentrated heat ray which could be obtained with a laser system. I am sure he learned how to make a heat ray from his experiences at the Library of Alexandria. He might have gotten the ruby needed for his laser in the Museum.

...

Sure why not, MacGyver was able to re-construct an "optical pump"...

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Sir Wearer of Hats

I never thought I'd see the day when someone says something that makes Gorgio of the fabulous hair look positively tame and dare I say it ... sensible.

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Golden Duck

I never thought I'd see the day when someone says something that makes Gorgio of the fabulous hair look positively tame and dare I say it ... sensible.

And this thread was sensible when?

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Sir Wearer of Hats

And this thread was sensible when?

Never mate, that's my point.

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ShadowSot

Correction, _without_ a CAD.

As I recall,the fellow who made the working replica of the mechanism did so by hand, as proof of of concept.

A number of Roman devices had gear sin them, though the ones present in the mechanism were finer.

Not surprising, look at Swiss and Ductch clocks that were produced before mechanical lathes.

I'm beginning to feel my generation is missing out on what can be done without computers.

About Damascus steel... I note the wiki article mentions some of the same claims made about the Samurai katanas back in WWII,which seems to be just propaganda.

It also mentions something important:

Modern steel far out performs it.

Edited by ShadowSot

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