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Get ready for extreme weather


zenfahr
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Please people!

Think how much CO2 you are pumping into the atmosphere through car/bus/heating/elecrtical/food comsumption/etc... each day!

orders of magnitude less than the local bacteria.
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orders of magnitude less than the local bacteria.

A red herring since bacteria are part of the ecosystem and hence part of the balanced carbon cycle. Fossil fuels were taken out of the carbon cycle millions of years ago - as such our unnatural addition back in is changing the carbon cycle and the climate with it.

Br Cornelius

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I would like for these climatologists to explain how we humans are causing extreme storms on the other planets in the solar system as well.

Again - not factually correct and repeating it has not made it anymore true.

Br Cornelius

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Evidence? Are you talking about corrupted data? Models that ultimately have turned out wrong? Lab experiments that cannot recreate the desired effect of what they are trying to prove? All by "climatologists on the tax payers dole" Retired scientists who have nothing to gain or lose have stated otherwise.

You seem to be on to rich a diet of denialist propaganda there, maybe you should lay off it for a while :w00t:

Br Cornelius

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What about weather modification technology? Deliberate attempts to control the weather. See Weather modification on google such as HAARP, that giant facility in Alaska which heats up the upper atmosphere which controles the jet stream. The path of the jet steam was the cause of the massive cold and snow systems last year. And what about other countries using this technology? There was a UN treaty which we signed in the 1978 promising no to use weather modification technology in warfate. That was the result of Operation Popeye (see google) where the US controlled storms over Vietnam and flooded N.Vietnam for years.

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Ok..here's the thing ,climate change is normal ,everyone seems to think we live on a nice friendly planet with a climate that is somehow designed to suit humans and that it will stay this way forever if we just don't mess it up...IT WONT .We are currently in an interglacial period ,this means the planet will cool down again no matter what we do and another ice age will turn up (its over due a little actually)the earths climate has never been stable ,it changes all the time ,there is nothing we can do about it but adapt .Over use of resources and polution are a bad idea for all kinds of reasons but preventing the earth from getting cooler or hotter is not one of them..because it is going to happen anyway .Far better to worry about over population ,which is going to cause us massive problems in the not too distant future

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Ok..here's the thing ,climate change is normal ,everyone seems to think we live on a nice friendly planet with a climate that is somehow designed to suit humans and that it will stay this way forever if we just don't mess it up...IT WONT .We are currently in an interglacial period ,this means the planet will cool down again no matter what we do and another ice age will turn up (its over due a little actually)the earths climate has never been stable ,it changes all the time ,there is nothing we can do about it but adapt .Over use of resources and polution are a bad idea for all kinds of reasons but preventing the earth from getting cooler or hotter is not one of them..because it is going to happen anyway .Far better to worry about over population ,which is going to cause us massive problems in the not too distant future

As lovely as this little diversion is, and as factually correct as it may be - every historic climate change has had a driver - which could be either external (Milankovich cycles or solar cycles) or internal shifts in plate tectonics leading to changes in ocean currents.

I ask the simple question - what is causing the current climate change - and what is your evidence for believing that there is a natural cause.

The reason that I accept the AGW theory is because no-one has managed to propose a natural forcing which accounts for the current warming trend. Maybe you know something which all the climate scientists and physicists have missed. Let us in on the secret.

A await with trepidation.

Br Cornelius

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The reason that I accept the AGW theory is because no-one has managed to propose a natural forcing which accounts for the current warming trend.

so what was the natural forcing that accounts for the medieval warm period and the roman warm poeriod, and why doesn't that forcing apply today?

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This is factually incorrect and undermines everything you have subsequently said.

Br Cornelius

Sorry Corne...It is actually very correct...I invite you to investigate it. "All" planets are warming up and it is...in all honesty...being attributed to our current approach to solar maximum in what is referred to as "Solar cycle 24" which will peak toward the end of next year or early 2013.

This isn't fringe environmental or climactic theory...this is just astrophysics at work.

The irony is that many astrophysicist are projecting a severe drop in solar activity following the cycle 24 maximum...so drastic in fact, there are those speculating it may indeed have shades of the "Maunder minimum" which was attributed to (or at least compounded) what is commonly called "The Little Ice age" during the 17th and 18th century. Look up "the year without a summer" from the mid to late 1700's.

But that has little to nothing to do with the overall picture. There is climate change occurring...whether the cause is man-made or not is still being debated and as long as science has a price tag, the studies will reflect the interests of those that pay for it. I have no doubt man-kind has contributed to the effects going on outside our windows...however, when you consider the effects from the solar cycles, it is muddy water at best and there is no absolutely positive smoking gun.

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Sorry Corne...It is actually very correct...I invite you to investigate it. "All" planets are warming up and it is...in all honesty...being attributed to our current approach to solar maximum in what is referred to as "Solar cycle 24" which will peak toward the end of next year or early 2013.

This isn't fringe environmental or climactic theory...this is just astrophysics at work.

Please explain the cause.

Also do you have any evidence?

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Have you Been to Texas this year? Do you watch the news ? Have you looked at the paast records of rain fall.and Tempature change in the last thirty years? We are going into a climate change ! The Sun is all about change ! ChaNGE CAN Fry us or Freeze us !

Take your pick !

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what's the difference if it's man-made global warming or natural? it's far too late to do anything about it now.

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so what was the natural forcing that accounts for the medieval warm period and the roman warm poeriod, and why doesn't that forcing apply today?

Land use change, solar variation and the fact that the MWP really wasn't exceptionally warm. It only looks that way in comparison to the LIA. The LIA was strongly associated with the Maunder sun spot Minimum which was well recorded.

Same causes for the RWP. I do not personally discount man's effects on those periods of warming as there was substantial changes in agriculture, forestry and livestock associated with them. The main point here is that at the moment the sun has been in a relatively stable state for a substantial period and NO correlation can be made to the current warming trend. The earth has not substantially shifted in its orbit, and the continents have not moved in any meaningful way within the last million years or so.

So I ask again - what's causing the current warming if not CO2 ?

All change has an effect - just tell me what it is thats causing the effect of temperature increase. It should be a simple question since you are so certain you know what it isn't, you must know what it is.

Br Cornelius

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<snip cult-speak>
so you get to speculate and I have to know. just so we all realise what shape the playing field is. Edited by Little Fish
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Have you Been to Texas this year?

texas was 10 degrees hotter in 1936
Do you watch the news ?
nope, I prefer facts.
Have you looked at the paast records of rain fall.and Tempature change in the last thirty years? We are going into a climate change ! The Sun is all about change ! ChaNGE CAN Fry us or Freeze us !

Take your pick !

in order to be scientific a theory has to be falsifiable. climate change="colder or hotter" is not falsifiable.
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Br Cornelius

I'm not saying you are wrong about CO2 being the current cause of climate change ,im saying in the long run it doesn't really matter .We can stop burning fossil fuel tomorrow and climate change will still happen ,we could remove all human influence and it would still happen ,it may happen differently ,but one thing is certain our current climate is a blip ,a tiny little bit of geological time .There is no such thing as a stable climate and there never has been ,not from the point of view of geological time .If human beings are going to survive they will simply have to adapt to whatever changes come , which is what we have always done anyway .I am not a fan of media scare mongering because it's pointless ,I see no use in hysteria over the inevitable and I suspect a great deal of the hype surrounding this topic has more to do with research grants ,enabling taxes and journalists getting paid than it does with any real concern about long lasting damage to the planet because any scientist would be well aware of everything ive just said .

In the short to medium term over population is going to be the thing that causes us most problems ,unfortunatly it's a far more contentious and politically difficult issue than greenhouse gasses so i'm pretty sure it won't get tackled with the same enthusiasm .

But yes..to answer your question..CO2 probably is the cause for what we are seeing right now ,or at least some of it ,happy now ?

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Br Cornelius

I'm not saying you are wrong about CO2 being the current cause of climate change ,im saying in the long run it doesn't really matter .We can stop burning fossil fuel tomorrow and climate change will still happen ,we could remove all human influence and it would still happen ,it may happen differently ,but one thing is certain our current climate is a blip ,a tiny little bit of geological time .There is no such thing as a stable climate and there never has been ,not from the point of view of geological time .If human beings are going to survive they will simply have to adapt to whatever changes come , which is what we have always done anyway .I am not a fan of media scare mongering because it's pointless ,I see no use in hysteria over the inevitable and I suspect a great deal of the hype surrounding this topic has more to do with research grants ,enabling taxes and journalists getting paid than it does with any real concern about long lasting damage to the planet because any scientist would be well aware of everything ive just said .

In the short to medium term over population is going to be the thing that causes us most problems ,unfortunatly it's a far more contentious and politically difficult issue than greenhouse gasses so i'm pretty sure it won't get tackled with the same enthusiasm .

But yes..to answer your question..CO2 probably is the cause for what we are seeing right now ,or at least some of it ,happy now ?

The problem is that we cannot survive the type of climate change predicted - it will decimate our culture. Since we have caused it we are killing our culture. That has got to be grossly stupid however you look at it.

Climate will change naturally as you say - but we will not have caused it and we will have little control over it, is that an excuse for our current stupid behaviour which we do have control over ? I personally think that unless we do something about the causes of climate change, rapidly, most of us will not be around to witness the end point. Is it sensible to take what we have and, through stupidity, destroy it all.

If we cannot cope with climate change of our own making (which we can prevent) we sure as hell will not be able to cope with natural climate change over which we will have almost no control. I do not think it is clever as a species to play wait and see and adapt whilst continuing to pump out more of the prime cause of our problems. Its like watching a man with lung cancer coming off the oxygen for another cigarette - not big and certainly not clever.

Br Cornelius

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Man as contributed to the warming factor, but to use this as the ONLY reason for global warming is pure nonsense. All spouted by veggie munching save the whale walk to work brigade.

Science as been manipulated by governments over all of this, this is why there are now factions within the science community, some very willing to speak it as is, while others sit behind the man reading from cards.

This as all happened before through out human history, like others above have stated, all documented - and all done in the main without human help via cars/planes/ industry - so where's the real reason for all of the climatic changes...

Somewhere out there things are a stirring :ph34r:

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Man as contributed to the warming factor, but to use this as the ONLY reason for global warming is pure nonsense. All spouted by veggie munching save the whale walk to work brigade.

Science as been manipulated by governments over all of this, this is why there are now factions within the science community, some very willing to speak it as is, while others sit behind the man reading from cards.

This as all happened before through out human history, like others above have stated, all documented - and all done in the main without human help via cars/planes/ industry - so where's the real reason for all of the climatic changes...

Somewhere out there things are a stirring :ph34r:

The objective of climate science is to quantify man's contribute and predict what effect it will have on the system.

The conclusion is that mans "little bit" will have a very bad effect and we won't enjoy the outcome.

The point is - we could do something about it if we weren't so ****ing stupid.

Br Cornelius

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The point is - we could do something about it if we weren't so ****ing stupid.

Br Cornelius

What exactly can we do?

We have reached the point of no return.

Instead we should start preparing for the upcoming changes.

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What exactly can we do?

We have reached the point of no return.

Instead we should start preparing for the upcoming changes.

Those changes will happen but they will be much worse if we continue to pump greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Its just not sensible to do nothing at this stage as it makes the outcome inevitably more rapid and worse.

It will be taken out of our hands soon as large parts of our agriculture collapse and the culture which relies on it will collapse with it. Man and his complex systems are not good at rapid change. Ignorance certainly is not bliss.

This notion of do nothing and adapt to the changes is dangerous "Big Oil" hockum.

Br Cornelius

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The conclusion is that mans "little bit" will have a very bad effect and we won't enjoy the outcome.

your conclusion is at odds with the ipcc

this is what the ipcc currently say

"Projected changes in climate extremes under different emissions scenarios generally do not strongly diverge in the coming two to three decades, but these signals are relatively small compared to natural climate variability over this time frame. Even the sign of projected changes in some climate extremes over this time frame is uncertain"

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Those changes will happen but they will be much worse if we continue to pump greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Its just not sensible to do nothing at this stage as it makes the outcome inevitably more rapid and worse.

It will be taken out of our hands soon as large parts of our agriculture collapse and the culture which relies on it will collapse with it. Man and his complex systems are not good at rapid change. Ignorance certainly is not bliss.

This notion of do nothing and adapt to the changes is dangerous "Big Oil" hockum.

Br Cornelius

Wow, i know this.

Agian, what can we do? As a environmental scientist its your job to come up with the solutions. Show me some realistic solutions.

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