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California university


Persia
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Under pressure to resign, the chancellor of the University of California, Davis, established a task force Saturday to look into an incident where a police officer sprayed seated protesters with pepper spray at point blank range.

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http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/20/us/california-occupy-pepperspray/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

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I'm not entirely clear why the Chancellor is being held responsible because a particular police officer behaved like an ignorant thug?

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I'm not entirely clear why the Chancellor is being held responsible because a particular police officer behaved like an ignorant thug?

I'm not entirely clear why the protesters thought it was ok to ignore SEVERAL WARNINGS that pepper spray would be used if they didn't clear that particular area.

I do have an idea though...they ignored the warnings just to provoke the cops so they can show the world how brutal our police are. If you sit on a sidewalk and a cop tells you you must move or else you get sprayed and gives you several warnings, well??? What do you expect?

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I think people are just sick of the way the economy is and the banksters running the show, they get bailed out and you don't.  Complaining to your government representatives doesn't seem to do any good.   The only way they are going to get much media coverage is if something like this is going on.  If they do listen to the police and just pack up and go home everything stays the same.  As long as they aren't blocking traffic, entrances to business's or hurting someone, they have a right to be heard and the police need to back off.  If they are destroying property then they need to be arrested.  Destroying property happens a lot when people feel they are being unfairly treated, not listened to, remember the Boston Tea Party.<br><br>

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I'm not entirely clear why the protesters thought it was ok to ignore SEVERAL WARNINGS that pepper spray would be used if they didn't clear that particular area.

I do have an idea though...they ignored the warnings just to provoke the cops so they can show the world how brutal our police are. If you sit on a sidewalk and a cop tells you you must move or else you get sprayed and gives you several warnings, well??? What do you expect?

Exactly.

"They weren't doing anything wrong"

Well, when the police order you to move and you don't, you are doing something wrong.

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Exactly.

"They weren't doing anything wrong"

Well, when the police order you to move and you don't, you are doing something wrong.

Are you sure? Why is the assumption that the police were correct or in the right?

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Are you sure? Why is the assumption that the police were correct or in the right?

They, students, were obstructing an area they were asked not to obstruct. They were then given more than one warning that there would be consequences. the kids may attend that university, but that university does not belong to them to do as they wish. That's why they were wrong. The students did it to sucker support from the likes of yourself and to have the police reaction invoke anti-police rhetoric from the likes of yourself. They knew it would work. You are proof of that.

When a child acts out in defiance despite their parents request, would you not expect consequence for the children? Apparently many in this movement were raised as the boss of the house. A backwards entitled world view ensues.

Edited by Is it for real
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They, students, were obstructing an area they were asked not to obstruct. They were then given more than one warning that there would be consequences. the kids may attend that university, but that university does not belong to them to do as they wish. That's why they were wrong. The students did it to sucker support from the likes of yourself and to have the police reaction invoke anti-police rhetoric from the likes of yourself. They knew it would work. You are proof of that.

When a child acts out in defiance despite their parents request, would you not expect consequence for the children? Apparently many in this movement were raised as the boss of the house. A backwards entitled world view ensues.

So the government is the parent whom it is best if we all just obey? Glad George Washington and his apparently poorly raised friends didnt agree with your sentiment.....Yet more evidence of how screwed we are as a nation.

Edited by bigtroutak
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So the government is the parent whom it is best if we all just obey? Glad George Washington and his apparently poorly raised friends didnt agree with your sentiment.....Yet more evidence of how screwed we are as a nation.

No not at all...Don't twist my words. There is such a thing as law and order though. There is a huge difference between law and order and a police state. Use some common sense and keep the conversation intelligent. You knew what I meant.

Edited by Is it for real
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No not at all...Don't twist my words. There is such a thing as law and order though. There is a huge difference between law and order and a police state. Use some common sense and keep the conversation intelligent. You knew what I meant.

I knew exactly what you meant. The entire premise of law and order has been perverted at best and completely shattered at worst by what the criminals in Washington have done. Just like it was during the revolution because of TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION which is what the OWS is truly at its core all about.

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I knew exactly what you meant. The entire premise of law and order has been perverted at best and completely shattered at worst by what the criminals in Washington have done. Just like it was during the revolution because of TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION which is what the OWS is truly at its core all about.

Could you give a link to exactly what their goals are? I've looked around and I can't find a clear, concise explanation of what they are about.

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Could you give a link to exactly what their goals are? I've looked around and I can't find a clear, concise explanation of what they are about.

No i can't and I wish I could. The sentiment is of course that the American system is broken, ruled by a powerful mostly unelected elite and that the American people are worth as much as the 1% of our society who controls our government, economy and way of life.

I don't know however how one can articulate an end game to that sentiment without openly speaking of things like revolution, which of course would get you killed or put in jail.

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No i can't and I wish I could. The sentiment is of course that the American system is broken, ruled by a powerful mostly unelected elite and that the American people are worth as much as the 1% of our society who controls our government, economy and way of life.

I don't know however how one can articulate an end game to that sentiment without openly speaking of things like revolution, which of course would get you killed or put in jail.

Well the one true way to hurt rich people is to not buy their products or however they make money from you. Second, vote for good candidates. Third, we need to invoke senate term limits to two terms.

The problem with protesting the entire one percent for the bad deeds of a few is just that. Not everyone in the 1% is bad, not everyone in the one percent is greedy and not everyone in the one percent is doing something illegal. If the loop holes are there then it is legal to use them within said parameters. Some 1%ers may have asked for a loophole and gotten it, but it was someone we elected who made it legal. Anyways 1%, small as that seems within the context, is still too broad and diverse to be recognized as one group. They don't all deserve your frustration.

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Well the one true way to hurt rich people is to not buy their products or however they make money from you. Second, vote for good candidates. Third, we need to invoke senate term limits to two terms.

The problem with protesting the entire one percent for the bad deeds of a few is just that. Not everyone in the 1% is bad, not everyone in the one percent is greedy and not everyone in the one percent is doing something illegal. If the loop holes are there then it is legal to use them within said parameters. Some 1%ers may have asked for a loophole and gotten it, but it was someone we elected who made it legal. Anyways 1%, small as that seems within the context, is still too broad and diverse to be recognized as one group. They don't all deserve your frustration.

You are most likely correct and not all of the 1% deserves our frustration however the government which has allowed that 1% to obtain so much power and undue influence deserves our frustration and condemnation.

In a perfect world your recommendations to work within the established system make sense, and in fact were the talking points I liked to hear from my candidates once upon a time. Unfortunately the system no longer works, it is broken beyond repair in its current format. The 1% have morphed the system so they have total and absolute power. Their is no recourse within the system because the 1% ARE the system (back to taxation without representation).

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·

With all the cameras all over the place, both the protestors and the police knew darn well that what was happening was going to be posted out there. And I knew there had to be more footage than just the cop spraydown..

Found a kind of nice series of footage from the event, from several minutes before the spraying and beyond.. It's about 25 min total, in three parts.

Here's part one: WARNING some of the content of these videos may be offensive, I know there's some loud cuss word action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgGohVOOZrE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

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No i can't and I wish I could. The sentiment is of course that the American system is broken, ruled by a powerful mostly unelected elite and that the American people are worth as much as the 1% of our society who controls our government, economy and way of life.

I don't know however how one can articulate an end game to that sentiment without openly speaking of things like revolution, which of course would get you killed or put in jail.

So they don't really know what they want or how it can be accomplished in any other way than violence?

I'm really trying to understand, but nobody is making it easy.

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So they don't really know what they want or how it can be accomplished in any other way than violence?

I'm really trying to understand, but nobody is making it easy.

Well even if the only thing accomplished by OWS is bringing national and global attention to the corrupted system here it has accomplished something.

Also its not a matter of "they" cant understand how to reach a goal without violence. The truth of the issue is there are no political candidates who haven't been bought off. There are no lawmakers who make laws which benefit anyone other than the 1%. There simply is no recourse within the system in place. The system has been corrupted beyond repair and those in power have the ability to keep it that way and no incentive to change.

Honestly its not an easy thing to understand. America has stood apart (even if just in appearence) on the global stage for so long in terms of equality and justice that the truth of what we have become is quite staggering.

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I'm not entirely clear why the Chancellor is being held responsible because a particular police officer behaved like an ignorant thug?

She's his boss.

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Could you give a link to exactly what their goals are? I've looked around and I can't find a clear, concise explanation of what they are about.

I've posted it several times now.

The protests have focused on social and economic inequality, high unemployment, greed, as well as corruption, and the undue influence of corporations—particularly that of the financial services sector—on government. The protesters' slogan We are the 99% refers to the growing difference in wealth in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population.
source
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Well even if the only thing accomplished by OWS is bringing national and global attention to the corrupted system here it has accomplished something.

Also its not a matter of "they" cant understand how to reach a goal without violence. The truth of the issue is there are no political candidates who haven't been bought off. There are no lawmakers who make laws which benefit anyone other than the 1%. There simply is no recourse within the system in place. The system has been corrupted beyond repair and those in power have the ability to keep it that way and no incentive to change.

Honestly its not an easy thing to understand. America has stood apart (even if just in appearence) on the global stage for so long in terms of equality and justice that the truth of what we have become is quite staggering.

You'd almost have to be living under a rock not to know that most politicians are corrupt. It's no different in the US than any other country. OWS has done nothing to change the people's minds that are staunch believers in their party of choice. Even in the biggest of scandals, there are those who will defend their "chosen ones" with their last breathe.

The only recourse, that I can see, is to start with your local government. Vote, petition...demand term limits so there are no more career politicians. In my own city there has been a movement to oust the mayor for failure to abide by the wishes of his constituency. It's now in court. The same with city councils. How do you think politicians make it to Washington...they started as your local city councilmen, then mayor, then state representative, etc... You have to nip it in the bud from the get go and not wait until they've made a name for themselves. I fought tooth and nail to keep Bob Corker down, but obviously there wasn't enough people that saw his sleazy side. I can at least say I tried, where and when it counted and will never vote for him in the future.

But, in the end, that is where people can be the most effective.

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I've posted it several times now.

source

Wikki's nice and all, but I have yet to see any of that on the OWS website. I would like to get something from the horse's mouth.

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You'd almost have to be living under a rock not to know that most politicians are corrupt. It's no different in the US than any other country. OWS has done nothing to change the people's minds that are staunch believers in their party of choice. Even in the biggest of scandals, there are those who will defend their "chosen ones" with their last breathe.

The only recourse, that I can see, is to start with your local government. Vote, petition...demand term limits so there are no more career politicians. In my own city there has been a movement to oust the mayor for failure to abide by the wishes of his constituency. It's now in court. The same with city councils. How do you think politicians make it to Washington...they started as your local city councilmen, then mayor, then state representative, etc... You have to nip it in the bud from the get go and not wait until they've made a name for themselves. I fought tooth and nail to keep Bob Corker down, but obviously there wasn't enough people that saw his sleazy side. I can at least say I tried, where and when it counted and will never vote for him in the future.

But, in the end, that is where people can be the most effective.

The answer you just posted WAS the answer 20 years ago. Its a different world now, your example of how a politician makes it to Washington no longer is valid. Look at Obama he was tapped by Kissinger directly out of college and his grooming goes farther back than that. Those who are in power, that 1% changed the system, changed the game and now they own not just what happens when you get to Washington, but if you even have a chance to get to Washington. By the time a politician has gotten to Washington he has sold his soul to some sector of the 1%, if not many different ones.

Its no longer about corrupt politicians its about a corrupt nation.

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Right from the wiki page.

Goals

While the Demands Working Group favored a fairly concrete set of national policy proposals, others within the movement prefer a looser, more localized set of goals and they have put together a competing document, the Liberty Square Blueprint,[53] a wiki page edited by some 250 occupiers and still undergoing changes. The introduction to the draft document read: "Demands cannot reflect inevitable success. Demands imply condition, and we will never stop. Demands cannot reflect the time scale that we are working with."[45]

Journalists such as Shannon Bond for the Financial Times have said it was hard to discern a unified aim for the movement. However, other commentators have said that although the movement is not in complete agreement on its message and goals, it does have a message which is fairly coherent. According to Bloomberg Businessweek, protesters want more and better jobs, more equal distribution of income, bank reform, and a reduction of the influence of corporations on politics.[54] Adbusters co-founder Kalle Lasn has compared the protests to the Situationists and the Protests of 1968 movements.[55][56]

Link

No goals actually stated.. No demands. In fact they seem to be anti-demands, as I made bold.. If you go on the page, read carefully and click some of the follow up links you'll notice that for every ows intention it is stated that said intention is not supported by ows. They have no goals, no demands, no ideas, it's not them responsible for the law breaking, it's not their fault life sucks. I'm waiting for one to claim they don't really exist. They do have voices and wants, but don't we all.

Edit: closer inspection of the demand rant is funny.

They anti-demand inevitable success. Inevitable=garaunteed=laughable=impossible for everyone=if everyone was automatically successful then nobody would try

They anti-demand zero conditions to their non goals. Sounds like anarchy.

Edited by Is it for real
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Its no longer about corrupt politicians its about a corrupt nation.

With a statement like that it would seem the only solution would be civil war...

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With a statement like that it would seem the only solution would be civil war...

Youre exactly right, which is probably why you can't find a cohesive statement from the OWS groups regarding their demands or goals. No one wants to be the first to get sent to gitmo. Equality cannot be reached under the system we have now, the 1% (or a percentage thereof) have made sure of that.

Revolutions started across the globe last spring with movements just like OWS.

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