Church Tells HIV Patients To Stop Treatment

[Dougal]

At least six people have died in Britain after being told they had been healed of HIV and could stop taking their medication, Sky News has discovered.

There is evidence evangelical churches in London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow are claiming to cure HIV through God.

Sky sent three undercover reporters to the Synagogue Church of All Nations (SCOAN), which is based in Southwark, south London.

All of them told the pastors they were HIV positive - all were told they could be healed.

Story

Not sure if this is the right area of the forums for this so apologies if not.

How do you guys feel about this? It amazes me that they're allowed to get away with things like this.

[Rlyeh]

Some people are just too gullible.

[George Ford]

Damn fools! So were the people in the church claiming to have spoken to god personally and passed on the message that these victims were cured? If I was the families i'd get together and sue the church!

[Beckys_Mom]

...What they told these people is just awful... and more fool them for believing them

Something sinister about what they have done

[fullywired]

I have just read this article in the news section of Sky news ,i will post the link if any one wants to read the full article

My personal view is they should be prosecuted for spreading such nonsense to dying people

fullywired

At least six people have died in Britain after being told that they had been healed of HIV, and could stop taking their medication.

There is evidence that evangelical churches in London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow are claiming to cure HIV through God.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/churches-told-dying-patients-were-cured-034935993.html

[Mr Right Wing]

I have just read this article in the news section of Sky news ,i will post the link if any one wants to read the full article

My personal view is they should be prosecuted for spreading such nonsense to dying people

fullywired

At least six people have died in Britain after being told that they had been healed of HIV, and could stop taking their medication.

There is evidence that evangelical churches in London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow are claiming to cure HIV through God.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/churches-told-dying-patients-were-cured-034935993.html

I would be interested in finding out if any placebo experiments have cured aids.

[Beckys_Mom]

I read this article over on the Science & Technology board, but I felt it is more suited here, it is to do with A Church and their beliefs

[ether2]

these clowns (no disrespect to christanity as a whole) are trying to get on to a process where by a handfull in Africa have been cured of Aids, without the use of medication, these clowns my bet if the story being true are peadophilies high in the chain of christanity, as all they got as a life line (wait and see why - TV etc soon) is to what some believe is to perform miracles of such, it has been done in other areas not just Aids and in order to save their arses they come with up BS in order to buy some time, as their is a thing (it's BS how it come about) but if you can do something in the area of saveing life being out of the ordinary you get to escape charges, they the legal system are just now learning how it is impossiable for such people to even be able to do the tasks they say they can do, of course the legal system learning understanding consciousness has the ability to say BS your claims are false, as their is a thing called schooling in these fields which determines your abilities to do the required tasks and it's all cross refernceable provable who's done what and when...

[White Crane Feather]

I have just read this article in the news section of Sky news ,i will post the link if any one wants to read the full article

My personal view is they should be prosecuted for spreading such nonsense to dying people

fullywired

At least six people have died in Britain after being told that they had been healed of HIV, and could stop taking their medication.

There is evidence that evangelical churches in London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow are claiming to cure HIV through God.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/churches-told-dying-patients-were-cured-034935993.html

Oh dear god...... That crap is not being exported out of the US is it. I thought europians were more sensible than that.

[libstaK]

It's craziness. At the very least, if someone claims to be cured or is claiming to cure someone - there should be medical follow up to show if that is so. It would have saved these poor people if they went and had another test done. "Evangelical" is so often in my mind "Evil Angels" in their brainwashing of the masses.

[Bavarian Raven]

maybe, they just wanted to give the people some hope

a little hope can go a long ways

[ether2]

It's craziness. At the very least, if someone claims to be cured or is claiming to cure someone - there should be medical follow up to show if that is so. It would have saved these poor people if they went and had another test done. "Evangelical" is so often in my mind "Evil Angels" in their brainwashing of the masses.

it's all swept under the carpet so to speak hidden from the majority, what i'm associateing this with anyway the reason being is emotions equal energy and it's highly needed, thoughts also equal processes and needed, ("it's up there") take away that thoughts and energy processes without supplementing the cause and effect of those emotions/energy and thoughts and you have more bigger problems, it's being sorted out what to do in these areas now...

good luck

love

[libstaK]

maybe, they just wanted to give the people some hope

a little hope can go a long ways

Hope I have no problem with, also faith. They are great forces which can, as you say, go a long way.

Pragmatism and logic, however, should never be shunted aside.

A simple solution: pray for healing, believe in healing THEN see a doctor regularly and check the progress AND do not ignore the fact that science is also a force for good and can heal and go a long way too - don't set it aside, use both, if you believe in God then you can accept that everything in the world stems from him - including medical breakthroughs and treatments.

What these charlatans do in many cases, however, is tell people that to see a doctor is to lack the faith required for the healing to work. Or, if the doctors prognosis does not match what they claim to be a healing they tell the poor soul that medicine is wrong and they are right - to "JUST have faith" and all with be well - now that is criminal negligence IMO.

[Beckys_Mom]

It's craziness. At the very least, if someone claims to be cured or is claiming to cure someone - there should be medical follow up to show if that is so. It would have saved these poor people if they went and had another test done. "Evangelical" is so often in my mind "Evil Angels" in their brainwashing of the masses.

I agree with you there... I think it is wrong for any religious person to talk anyone out of taking meds that help them... It is cruel and wrong on so many levels... I can't believe some trusted in them... The law should forbid churches from doing this.. it is harmful and has been noted in the past to lead to death with people thinking faith can cure

[fullywired]

Story

Not sure if this is the right area of the forums for this so apologies if not.

How do you guys feel about this? It amazes me that they're allowed to get away with things like this.

Sorry Dougal didn't realise you had posted this article elsewhere,I only read the the spiritual and sceptics as a rule'

fullywired

[HawkLord]

Faith is all well and good except when it gets in the way of common sense. If GOD wanted to heal people through such charlatans then he wouldnt of given us doctors and the ability to find the needed medical knowledge now would he.

[Swamptick]

Another Christian bashing article. Stuff like this goes on ALL the time in Islam but NOBODY will talk about that. You all disgust me.

[diablo_04]

When people are dying, they lose little bit of rationality, and they are willing to try anything to be cured..they have nothing to lose, thy are dying never the less. Its are instinct to never give up

[HawkLord]

Another Christian bashing article. Stuff like this goes on ALL the time in Islam but NOBODY will talk about that. You all disgust me.

I have no need to bash any religion as they all have at their basis a guide on how to live a good life. My problem is with those members who are the minority that use religion as an excuse to justify their own agendas of hate and greed.

[FurthurBB]

Another Christian bashing article. Stuff like this goes on ALL the time in Islam but NOBODY will talk about that. You all disgust me.

Oh, so sorry that people are always bashing the man. You disgust me.

[Mr Right Wing]

Faith is all well and good except when it gets in the way of common sense. If GOD wanted to heal people through such charlatans then he wouldnt of given us doctors and the ability to find the needed medical knowledge now would he.

I'm not so sure.

Its sounds like they are curing people with the placebo effect by playing a God confidence trick.

I wonder if the success rate is above 0%? You do realise it might be?

[Purplos]

Wouldn't instructing people to stop taking medications be practicing medicine without a license? Surely that's against the law.

[Copasetic]

I'm not so sure.

Its sounds like they are curing people with the placebo effect by playing a God confidence trick.

I wonder if the success rate is above 0%? You do realise it might be?

The placebo effect doesn't work on HIV. You can't will your CD4 counts back up and without your CD4 cells you fight a loosing battle against any infection that requires T-mediated immunity.

The placebo effect only works on "diseases" with a subjective outcome, like "pain healing", etc. And even then, the results are so weak that it is ethically and morally wrong to ever try and use the placebo effect in medicine.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Copasetic

[Beckys_Mom]

Another Christian bashing article. Stuff like this goes on ALL the time in Islam but NOBODY will talk about that. You all disgust me.

Awww shucks you're just saying that... I think we are horrible to say thing like - People who are not doctors have no rights to tell others to stop taking meds that will help them...who are we to do that..??...Better still who are we to say what we think...??

... We should all say - Hey isnt it lovely and grand to tell people to no longer take their meds that could save their lives and put themselves at risk...Because we should ALL accept and love the fact that they do this in another culture too.. so forget about your moral opinions... Just go with the flow...

Sorry no can do... If you are not a doctor then you have no right to tell anyone to stay away from their meds...and I do not care if it happens in another culture.. Just because some other culture does it, doesn't mean we all should say its great and accept it.. We have a right to say how these things make us feel and we are not obligated to accept how things are done elsewhere

Edited November 26, 2011 by Beckys_Mom

[Blue Lizard]

Normally I believe that doctors need to be able to do their job. Doctors exist for a reason, and so we should try to get all the help we can and not get in their way.

However, I am not sure what I believe in this situation. There is no cure, or at least something that is well studied and affordable, for HIV. So all the patients would have got is more time and that time would be spent lying in a hospital in pain depending on others for everything and without clear sight. It is pretty much waiting in bed to watch your body fail and being degraded at the same time in many different ways. They are just waiting for their slow painful and inevitable death in almost all cases.

I have seen people die painfully that way and I have decided for myself that I rather die early than degrade myself and endure all the pain for a few extra months. I would go for alternative ways that would let me die in a peaceful manner, even if it means taking a few months off my life. If that means depending on religion for some people, then that is what we should respect.

In short, if we could help them then that would be a different case. However, we can only put them in bed for some more time and they will be in pain that entire time.

So can we bash religion? No we cannot and it is just pathetic. It is their lives and we need to respect their choices especially when we don't have a cure they could use and our method is painful. So stop finding reasons to bash religion.