13.000.000 years old girl found in Petralona

[christos krypto]

She died at 14 years old and found by Aris Poulianos a Greek Anthropologist and Archaeologist. All this mase up the known history of African monkey theory

Place: Petralona cave, Chalkidiki - Hellas

Found by: Aris Poulianos

Age of girl skull: 13.000.000 years

[George Ford]

Hi,

Thats damn old! got some links to articles please?

[tipotep]

She died at 14 years old and found by Aris Poulianos a Greek Anthropologist and Archaeologist. All this mase up the known history of African monkey theory

Place: Petralona cave, Chalkidiki - Hellas

Found by: Aris Poulianos

Age of girl skull: 13.000.000 years

You need to provide a link if your going to put out such information , here is a quick search ...

Since the 1970s, Poulianos has investigated early hominid remains found in a cave in Petralona, Greece, and has become known for controversial claims over their age. According to Poulianos, the Petralona Cave was accidentally discovered in 1959 by local villagers searching for a spring in the mountainside.[2] The Petralona skull, specifically, was discovered in 1960 when it was removed from a rock in the cave. Early estimates at the time placed the age of the hominid remains to around 70,000 years old.[3] Poulianos would ultimately study the remains, name the hominid Archanthropus europeaus petraloniensis, and estimate its age to be around 700,000 years old.[4]

During the 1980s, the age of the Petralona hominid estimated by Poulianos was challenged by an article in Nature. The scientists involved used electron spin resonance measurements and ultimately dated the age of the skull to between 160,000 and 240,000 years old.[5] However, Poulianos states that his excavations in the cave since 1968 provide evidence of human occupation from the Pleistocene era.[6] The Petralona hominid, specifically, was located in a stratigraphic layer containing the most amount of tools and traces of habitation. Poulianos states that the age of the overall layer is approximately 670,000 years old based on electron spin resonance measurements.[6] Further excavations at Petralona revealed two human skeletons that press reports claimed to be 800,000 years old.[7]

Today, most academics who have analyzed the Petralona remains classify the hominid as Homo erectus.[8] However, the Archanthropus of Petralona has also been classified as a Neanderthal (Homo sapiens neanderthalensis) and as an early generic class of Homo sapiens. Some authors, on the other hand, believe that the Petralona cranium is derived from a unique class of hominids different from Homo erectus.

Wiki link

Not real sure where you come up with 1.3 million ?

TiP

[christos krypto]

Hi,

Thats damn old! got some links to articles please?

Hi! i Have only in Greeks! :/

use the key words and maybe will find in google more infos

[encouraged]

I was able to google--> Petralona AND 13.000.000 <-- and found this site in Greek and English. All I have to say is WOW!

16th International Congress of the International Union of Anthropological and Ethnological Sciences (IUAES)

Greek: Οι Πρώτοι άνθρωποι εμφανίστηκαν πριν από 13 εκατομμύρια χρόνια, ανακοινώθηκε στο φετινό 16ο Παγκόσμιο Συνέδριο της Διεθνούς Ένωσης Ανθρωπολογικών και Εθνολογικών Επιστημών, από τον δρα Ανθρωπολογίας Άρη Πουλιανό.

English:The first people appeared before 13 million years, was announced at this year's 16th World Congress of International Union of Anthropological and Ethnological Sciences, by Dr. Anthropology Paulianos Mars.

Εκεί παρουσίασε ευρήματά τους: εργαλεία, κνήμη και μηριαίο ατόμων που πρωτοανακοινώθηκαν το 1997, ( http://www.aee.gr/hellenic/8other-research/triglia/excav_triglia.html ), και ο απολιθωμένος σκελετός κοριτσιού 14 ετών, που βρέθηκε το 2008 στις ανασκαφές τού όρους Κάλαυρος, κοντά στο περίφημο Σπήλαιο των Αρχανθρώπων στα Πετράλωνα Χαλκιδικής, όπου ήδη έχουν βρεθεί οστά 3 ...δισέγγονών της!

He presented their findings: tools, tibia and femur people protoanakoinothikan the 1,997, ( http://www.aee.gr/hellenic/8other-research/triglia/excav_triglia.html ), and Fossilized skeleton girl 14 years, found The 2008 excavations at Mount Kalavria, near the famous cave of Arhanthropos Petralona Halkidiki, where already found bones ... 3 great-grandson of!

Στο μεταξύ έχουν ήδη βρεθεί και οι ενδιάμεσοι “κρίκοι” σε άλλα σημεία στην Ελλάδα, όπως στην Πτολεμαΐδα και την Ικαρία.-

In the meantime have been found and intermediate "links" to other places in Greece, as Ptolemais and Ikaria .-

View: Announced at a conference

Edited November 29, 2011 by encouraged

[christos krypto]

Hi folks!

I found the speech of Drs Aris and Daphne N. Poulianos at the THE PROCESS OF HOMINIZATION in Kunming, China, 31-7-2009

The title of this paper may sound a little deterministic, but I am convinced we human beings went through a longer period of hominization, than usual historians, including marxists, allow to conclude today.

We definitely come from apes, but not African ones. Once upon a time lived in Europe over fifty species of monkeys. But an ape, which I named Helladopithecus semierectus, lived on trees, seventeen million years ago (ANTHROPOS, V3, N01, Jan. 1976, pp3 – 30, Athens).

The well known Pikermi fauna of the Miocene period is found from Hungary through Balkans to Iran: (Wagner, A1840: Fossile Uberreste Von einem Affen und anderensau getierren aus Griechenland. Abh. Bayer. Akad. Wiss, 3, Munchen). Among other finds, a very important of that period was Mesopithecus pentelici, whose range also extended over a large territory, beyond Greece, and which is known to be a terrestrial monkey. It’s wide extension over a large territory, presupposes, that some anthropomorphic monkeys could ’’descend from trees’’ (Roghinski, J.J. & M.G. Levin, 1963: Anthropologhia, Moskva, str. 184 – 185), and begun to walk. Consequently among those “descenders” could be some andecedent forms of man.

Another lower jaw from Attica found by a german officer during the years of occupation (1942) and described by G.Von Koenigswald, (1972: Einunterkiefez eines fossilen Hominoiden aus dem unterpliozan Griechenlands. Konikl. Nederl. Akademie Van Wetenschappen. Series B, 75, No 5, str. 385 – 394, Amsterdam), seems to be an advanced form which does not belong to Dryopithecinae, and which might also represent the beginning of African Primates. Koenigswald gave him a not very successful name “graecopithecus”. Its age is about 9 million years old. The lower jaw of another specimen found by the French expedition in 1972 near Thessaloniki, was named Dryopethicus macedoniensis. But it is also of a more advanced type than the Dryopithecinae, and according to Koenigswald is more closely affiliated with the hominids. Its age is Upper Miocene (Vallesian).

Finally, the find described in this paper (Helladopithecus), is the upper part of a left femur found by our expedition in 1974 near Tharounia, a village in the island of Euboea. The age established lately, is Lower Miocene, about 17 million years old, confirmed by its stratigraphy, as well, and kept now in the Anthropological Museum of the Archanthropus man at Petralona, Chalkidiki.

It is fully described and decided to be a semierectus monkey, as these authors call the whole complex of similar finds from Attica and Makedonia too.

The new bone find is 98 mm. long (given the signal name ‘’A.E. – 1’’, seems to belong to a rather young individual, and its whole length (proportionally counted) cannot be more than 350 mm. That is the standing height should be about 140-150cm. Its weight, according to Debetz index (ICVS), approximately should be about 40-42 klgms. The stoutness index then is about 22, 85 (the same index for Orang, Chimpanzee and Gorilla, being 32-33, while for man is 18-21.

But among all these indirect methods of identifying a find, the best would be to measure exactly the Torsion angle, in order to establish the percentage of its erect position. Thus a new method was developed to measure the torsion angle in a broken femur bone. This method is based on the assumption that the torsion angle (Θ) of a bone is directly proportional to the angle of its cylindrical surface (α). (See designs 2 and 3). The axis of a bone is the line passing through all gravity centers of all its side section (AB). The edge of the cylindrical surface of a bone is the line uniting all corresponding corners of the cross – section (ΓΔ). That is: θ=Κ.α, where Κ – proportionality coefficient.

And this assumption is based on

a)the geometrical similarity of corresponding bones of different animals.

b)The physico-chemical similarity of bones, and

c)On the approximately constant ratio between animal weight and cross-sectional area, that is the stress of bone loading is almost constant (the animal weight per unit of cross-sectional bone area).

In order to find Κ we take a similar unbroken contemporary bone, and measure its angles θ and α:

Κ= θ. Unbroken / α. unbroken

Then we measure the angle α of the broken bone and find angle

θ.broken = K.a unbroken = θ. Unbroken . α. broken / α. unbroken

Angle α is the average of angles β & γ.

The angles β & γ can be found by photographing the bone and measuring these angles on the picture. In order to make edge ΓΔ clearly distinguishable we illuminate the bone from the side. Then ΓΔ becomes the border line of two differently illuminated surfaces. In our case we took 17 differently oriented pictures of both bones, broken and unbroken (see pictures in the text and table 1).

The result of these procedures showed that θ (torsion) broken = 18ο , which means that this monkey was about 65% erect during his lifetime. That means he was pretty much erect, certainly more erect than most today’s African primates. Thus, it is concluded, Helladopithecus could be the forerunner of Homo.

Finally, we raise to the rank of a separate family the whole complex of Helladopithecus finds from Greece, classifying it right after the Hominid family. As a result of the above process we have the first standing man on earth, Homo erectus trilliensis, spreading all over the world from this region of the Aegean, of the SE of Europe 13 million years ago.

The over one hundred years long discussion among anthropologists (‘’polyphyletic versus monophyletic origins’’) sounds is ending. Monophyletic origin of man (from Helladopithecus to Homo erectus trilliensis) to our opinion is more or less confirmed who spread from Atlantic to Pacific and then all over the rest of the world. It seems every biological species on earth develops from one center, and then it spreads all over.

In the mean time excavations are going on: A new find, a part of the skeleton of a young girl of 14 years old was found. The find was named Homo erectus trilliensis Daphnae, after the name of the lady present in this hall Mrs Daphnae A.Poulianos.

[encouraged]

That was a great post! Appreciate it!

[christos krypto]

That was a great post! Appreciate it!

share the knowledge

[christos krypto]

i saw this video and Aris Poulianos says the girl lived before 1.300.000 BC

so i think the first post about chronology is false. But still is the oldest human ever found and saws that exist humans in europe before indo-europeans

Also Mr. Poulianos says on the video found the oldest fire by human

Edited December 4, 2011 by christos krypto

[Swede]

Hi folks!

I found the speech of Drs Aris and Daphne N. Poulianos at the THE PROCESS OF HOMINIZATION in Kunming, China, 31-7-2009

The title of this paper may sound a little deterministic, but I am convinced we human beings went through a longer period of hominization, than usual historians, including marxists, allow to conclude today.

We definitely come from apes, but not African ones. Once upon a time lived in Europe over fifty species of monkeys. But an ape, which I named Helladopithecus semierectus, lived on trees, seventeen million years ago (ANTHROPOS, V3, N01, Jan. 1976, pp3 – 30, Athens).

The well known Pikermi fauna of the Miocene period is found from Hungary through Balkans to Iran: (Wagner, A1840: Fossile Uberreste Von einem Affen und anderensau getierren aus Griechenland. Abh. Bayer. Akad. Wiss, 3, Munchen). Among other finds, a very important of that period was Mesopithecus pentelici, whose range also extended over a large territory, beyond Greece, and which is known to be a terrestrial monkey. It's wide extension over a large territory, presupposes, that some anthropomorphic monkeys could ''descend from trees'' (Roghinski, J.J. & M.G. Levin, 1963: Anthropologhia, Moskva, str. 184 – 185), and begun to walk. Consequently among those "descenders" could be some andecedent forms of man.

Another lower jaw from Attica found by a german officer during the years of occupation (1942) and described by G.Von Koenigswald, (1972: Einunterkiefez eines fossilen Hominoiden aus dem unterpliozan Griechenlands. Konikl. Nederl. Akademie Van Wetenschappen. Series B, 75, No 5, str. 385 – 394, Amsterdam), seems to be an advanced form which does not belong to Dryopithecinae, and which might also represent the beginning of African Primates. Koenigswald gave him a not very successful name "graecopithecus". Its age is about 9 million years old. The lower jaw of another specimen found by the French expedition in 1972 near Thessaloniki, was named Dryopethicus macedoniensis. But it is also of a more advanced type than the Dryopithecinae, and according to Koenigswald is more closely affiliated with the hominids. Its age is Upper Miocene (Vallesian).

Finally, the find described in this paper (Helladopithecus), is the upper part of a left femur found by our expedition in 1974 near Tharounia, a village in the island of Euboea. The age established lately, is Lower Miocene, about 17 million years old, confirmed by its stratigraphy, as well, and kept now in the Anthropological Museum of the Archanthropus man at Petralona, Chalkidiki.

It is fully described and decided to be a semierectus monkey, as these authors call the whole complex of similar finds from Attica and Makedonia too.

The new bone find is 98 mm. long (given the signal name ''A.E. – 1'', seems to belong to a rather young individual, and its whole length (proportionally counted) cannot be more than 350 mm. That is the standing height should be about 140-150cm. Its weight, according to Debetz index (ICVS), approximately should be about 40-42 klgms. The stoutness index then is about 22, 85 (the same index for Orang, Chimpanzee and Gorilla, being 32-33, while for man is 18-21.

But among all these indirect methods of identifying a find, the best would be to measure exactly the Torsion angle, in order to establish the percentage of its erect position. Thus a new method was developed to measure the torsion angle in a broken femur bone. This method is based on the assumption that the torsion angle (Θ) of a bone is directly proportional to the angle of its cylindrical surface (α). (See designs 2 and 3). The axis of a bone is the line passing through all gravity centers of all its side section (AB). The edge of the cylindrical surface of a bone is the line uniting all corresponding corners of the cross – section (ΓΔ). That is: θ=Κ.α, where Κ – proportionality coefficient.

And this assumption is based on

a)the geometrical similarity of corresponding bones of different animals.

b)The physico-chemical similarity of bones, and

c)On the approximately constant ratio between animal weight and cross-sectional area, that is the stress of bone loading is almost constant (the animal weight per unit of cross-sectional bone area).

In order to find Κ we take a similar unbroken contemporary bone, and measure its angles θ and α:

Κ= θ. Unbroken / α. unbroken

Then we measure the angle α of the broken bone and find angle

θ.broken = K.a unbroken = θ. Unbroken . α. broken / α. unbroken

Angle α is the average of angles β & γ.

The angles β & γ can be found by photographing the bone and measuring these angles on the picture. In order to make edge ΓΔ clearly distinguishable we illuminate the bone from the side. Then ΓΔ becomes the border line of two differently illuminated surfaces. In our case we took 17 differently oriented pictures of both bones, broken and unbroken (see pictures in the text and table 1).

The result of these procedures showed that θ (torsion) broken = 18ο , which means that this monkey was about 65% erect during his lifetime. That means he was pretty much erect, certainly more erect than most today's African primates. Thus, it is concluded, Helladopithecus could be the forerunner of Homo.

Finally, we raise to the rank of a separate family the whole complex of Helladopithecus finds from Greece, classifying it right after the Hominid family. As a result of the above process we have the first standing man on earth, Homo erectus trilliensis, spreading all over the world from this region of the Aegean, of the SE of Europe 13 million years ago.

The over one hundred years long discussion among anthropologists (''polyphyletic versus monophyletic origins'') sounds is ending. Monophyletic origin of man (from Helladopithecus to Homo erectus trilliensis) to our opinion is more or less confirmed who spread from Atlantic to Pacific and then all over the rest of the world. It seems every biological species on earth develops from one center, and then it spreads all over.

In the mean time excavations are going on: A new find, a part of the skeleton of a young girl of 14 years old was found. The find was named Homo erectus trilliensis Daphnae, after the name of the lady present in this hall Mrs Daphnae A.Poulianos.

An interesting contribution. However, there may be some problems.

First, the Petralona skull - As you know, while there is some debate over the date due the the recovery conditions, it is generally believed to be of the H. heidelbergensis/erectus line. Dating falls into the 160 > 350 Kya range. As there is widespread documentation for this line emerging from Africa quite some time prior the the emergence of H. sapiens (sapiens), this is not surprising.

Second, the "14 year old girl" - This is problematic on a number of levels. Two of these would be 1) the age estimation of the individual. Reference Turkana Boy 2) the over-all age of the specimen is quite suspect, given the genetic information available as it relates to African migration of H. s. s. amongst other factors.

Third, in the above citation, Poulianos makes a number of rather presumptive leaps.

Fourth, as you are aware, Poulianos' career has been a rather checkered one. In addition, he has a pattern of not submitting all of his research for peer-review. Further, there have been incidences of lost field notes, etc.

Fifth, while the torsion studies are proving to be of interest (ala ardipithicus), these alone may not be fully sufficient. Recovery of pelvic and foot remains would be more definitive.

Lastly, it would appear that Poulianos does have some rather strong nationalistic tendencies.

Some brief general references:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1475-4754.1992.tb00483.x/abstract

http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_1.htm

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/fossils/petralona-1-0

.

[christos krypto]

An interesting contribution. However, there may be some problems.

First, the Petralona skull - As you know, while there is some debate over the date due the the recovery conditions, it is generally believed to be of the H. heidelbergensis/erectus line. Dating falls into the 160 > 350 Kya range. As there is widespread documentation for this line emerging from Africa quite some time prior the the emergence of H. sapiens (sapiens), this is not surprising.

Second, the "14 year old girl" - This is problematic on a number of levels. Two of these would be 1) the age estimation of the individual. Reference Turkana Boy 2) the over-all age of the specimen is quite suspect, given the genetic information available as it relates to African migration of H. s. s. amongst other factors.

Third, in the above citation, Poulianos makes a number of rather presumptive leaps.

Fourth, as you are aware, Poulianos' career has been a rather checkered one. In addition, he has a pattern of not submitting all of his research for peer-review. Further, there have been incidences of lost field notes, etc.

Fifth, while the torsion studies are proving to be of interest (ala ardipithicus), these alone may not be fully sufficient. Recovery of pelvic and foot remains would be more definitive.

Lastly, it would appear that Poulianos does have some rather strong nationalistic tendencies.

Some brief general references:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1475-4754.1992.tb00483.x/abstract

http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_1.htm

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/fossils/petralona-1-0

.

this book will take away your problems

The Birth of Europe - Michael Adrews (from BBC)

Edited December 6, 2011 by christos krypto

[Swede]

this book will take away your problems

The Birth of Europe - Michael Adrews (from BBC)

Given that Andrew's (rather dated) book deals with geophysical factors, would you care to cite specific quotes (in context) from the fore-mentioned text that support the claims of Poulianos?

.

[psyche101]

this book will take away your problems

The Birth of Europe - Michael Adrews (from BBC)

With all due respect, I do not see how that book can offer solutions to the pertinent questions Swede has brought up. How can it counter for the fact that Dating falls into the 160 > 350 Kya range or that many anthropologists feel this is homo erectus? It strikes me that such issues will have a complex solution.

Edited December 7, 2011 by psyche101